Thread: Retri Paladins

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  1. #1

    Retri Paladins

    Hi,
    Firstly, this is not intended to be a QQ thread, and I am not a troll, and yes, I did register to say what I am going to say, although I have been visiting MMO-Champion for a while now, but just never registered.

    I have seen, unsurprisingly, a huge amount of threads like "Ret will be useless" and "Why did you nerf us?". I am an ally paladin, who has been retri for a long time before this new patch. Like a lot of people, I felt retri pallys needed a bit of fixing, just a few things here and there to make them more effective for both pve and pvp. When I saw the new retri talents, I, of course, thought it was going to be awesome, which it was, but I realised that they were overpowered after playing one battleground after the patch.

    Retri can't be fine if blues-and-greens geared, just-dinged 70 paladins who have specced retri in the patch can kill other classes with S2, S3 and S4 gear. Now, we see retri is going to be nerfed. However, I am still going to buy the expansion pack, I'm not going to reroll, and I'm not going to send Blizz hundreds of emails saying how angry I am. I am going to keep my paladin as my main character. Why? In short, because I find playing retri pallys fun. At this point, many of you might think I've gone mad, but I truly, even way before the patch, found pallys a fun class.

    The first character I got to 70 was a hunter, then my paladin, and then a mage. I could, if I wanted, abandon my paladin and go with my hunter or mage, or even level up one of my lower level alts, but still, I will play my paladin as my main. Before the patch, in PvE, ok, admitidly, retri dmg wasn't great, but I could still come second or third on the dmg meter against mages and locks, for example. In PvP, in arena, me and my friend, who plays a lock, would still win the majority of our games, and in BGs, I would still come within the top 5 or so. Many people before the patch wanted retri pallys in their teams, and if retri was completely useless, then why was there such thing as s4 shoulders for retri. (Of course, s4 shoulders were hard to get with most classes)

    But why are pallys a fun class? I don't really have a direct answer for that. One thing I did like about pallys before the patch was their ability to do the "triple crit burst", where you would get wep dmg, SoC proc, and Crusader Strike all going off at once, and critting. Before the patch, I was still saying things like "It would be nice if pallys had a short cooldown spell interrupt, or a charge or something". Although we did not really get either of those, I did welcome the changes that Blizz put in, such as the fact you don't have to keep reactivating seals after you judge them, and how Judgement of Justice can now be used as a primary seal, as it does dmg and puts the movement impairing effect on, and how you did not have to change to Seal of Justice for it, and how Hammer of Wrath is now instant cast. Divine Storm was also a nice extra attack to have.

    Judgements of the Wise was also another welcome change, as it sorted out our mana problems. However, even I see that this is overpowered. I can go into a fight in a BG, say if 8 hordies attacking the blacksmith in AB, with me and 7 others defending for example. If we win that fight, I look at how much mana I've got...and usually I've only lost 5-10%. Both my mage and my hunter would have lost far more than that. This is just one example I am using.

    To clarify, I am neither welcoming nor rejecting the nerfs, but I would say that retri pallys have been, in comparison to other overpowered classes, rather un-humble about it. However, I have noticed that there are now less retri pallys in BGs now, and more Holy specced pallys are coming back. (This might be different in other battlegroups).

    When some people are talking about Blizz's decisions with paladins, they say things like "Pallys are there for a joke" "Pallys are just LOLRET, always will be, gg blizz" "Blizz is plotting against us!". Blizz does not have some conspiricy against paladins, and they don't sit there laughing at paladins. If Blizz makes a joke about paladins, even if you are a paladin, just laugh anyway if it is funny. Don't take it personally. It's the same IRL, if someone makes a joke at you then you just laugh at it, you don't go into a massive nerdrage and destroy them. (Well you might do, I don't know :P)

    As a final point, for retri pallys: We are going to get nerfed, yes, but it is deserved, as we are clearly overpowered at the moment. It seems most experienced retri pallys would agree with this. The nerf might be too much in some people's opinion, but if that is true, then Blizz should buff them again. Just have a bit of patiance, and see what happens. If we do become underpowered, then just live with it, and we will get a buff. As for other people who are not pallys who complain about them and say stuff like "Haha retardins = owned lololololol", we are getting nerfed, but just try not to be so sore that you might have got killed multiple times by a paladin. I am not angry about these nerfs, and I will keep playing a paladin, in fact, what annoys me more is why so many human males in WoW have gone for the belf haircuts... :P

    This is just my opinion, flame away if you like, but keep it constructive. (Sry it was a bit long)

  2. #2

    Re: Retri Paladins

    This is nice, creative, mature, sensible... CHARMING. GJ I like the post... /clap.
    09/10
    In life pain is mandatory; Suffering however, is optional...
    Source: Naruto

  3. #3

    Re: Retri Paladins

    I agree, ret pallies do deserve a nerf, but then again so do mages and prolly a few other classes.

    Seeing as i am an arena whore i find it pretty frustrating that me as a discipline priest have to spec into survivability, and yet i get gibbed in every single match i do.
    Healing needs to be viable again imo, while tho i do realised its only pre-wotlk i dont enjoy
    be two shot by some retarted arcane mage who can set his whole bar to either arcane barrage or arcane missiles and smash his head on the keyboard and kill me in two seconds.

    Its frustrating that i see posts about ret pallys being OP when there are a few other classes that need to have their dps lowered.

    WHENZ IT TEH PRIEST TURN TO BE OP FK

  4. #4
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    Re: Retri Paladins

    100% agree and u can have a cookie for the first retri pally i kno to admit it!

  5. #5

    Re: Retri Paladins

    this patch makes many classes overpowered when it comes to damage, one more then others ofc, and some classes that for the same reasons as ever cant compete becuz they didnt got any special damage increase.

    I'd say lets wait for wotlk.

    10/10 post tbh
    Waiting for SWTOR (Star wars: the old republic)

    www.swtor.com

    or... GW2... undecided

  6. #6

    Re: Retri Paladins

    nice for reading... i need to make my 2cent.... I play drood as main since 3y ago... I always hate pre-TBC that blizz never improve feral one's... when TBC came out feral droods were buffed too much (like retri palies now), so they nerf them... On my opinion no class should be OP and blizz is trying everything to keep it balanced as much as they can, thet's why there is so many, nerf's and buffs every patch...

    And by the way i got retri paly too, wich i like to play and i see them now as they are, as OP as there were rouges/locks in pre-TBC...



    edit: don't forget that this are lvl 80 talents/spells, using by lvl 70 chars... everything will look different when LK comes out

  7. #7
    Deleted

    Re: Retri Paladins

    Well a post that finally made me to register me to the forum:

    Mmo-champion -> Bringing me laughs at work since november 2007!

    Well my statement on this is well different, cause i tend to look into the future. Let it be clear that i'm a player that enjoys the game. I play a Holy pala, Arcane mage, Resto/Feral Druid, a Warlock and a Elemental Shaman.

    All those classes have it's ups and it's downs, it's pro's and it's cons.. Their strong and weak spots.. But all that people can't see at this point is that this game isn't balanced anymore around lvl 70, and still everyone tends to forget that.

    Playing a lvl 70 holy paladin myself i've respecced to Retri to try it, i'm indeed in full blue gear with my retri gear. Yes i owned some people, and i got owned myself also, it's just Bursty at the moment. People that played beta pre-nerf on lvl 80 paladins can admit that the damage at lvl 80 was normalized by then, when the nerf occured it was way lower! Sure we can deal with this again by speccing prot and holy (there are also paladins who love those specs! not everyone wants to be Retri)

    But was this nerf justified?

    The answer is NO, basicly cause of what i said -> This game isn't balanced around lvl 70 anymore

    Why did this nerf occure in the first place?

    Very Simple, the QQ has always been here from the lvl 70 community (Beta and Live), people that don't know to play there class or get unlucky.. (Trink/IB or whatevah on CD when receiving a Hammer on your head and get crit to death) That shit happens, and you see it every where on these forum). On the other hand on my battlegroup (don't know if other people have seen this also) Retadins took advantage of this by making Premade only Retadin teams in BG's, litteraly sweeping over the floor like a lawnmower. So what i'm trying to say here is that most basicly this nerf has been called on ourselfs. We gave people things to QQ about.

    But i think i'm the only one believing that blizz actually is trying his best atm to not break the class again

    ow and P.S. No damage shouldn't be lowered on other classes also, you lot just have to wait till LK and go lvl again imo

  8. #8

    Re: Retri Paladins

    10/10 Man.
    I have also played ret for quite a while. Have a holy set too because no body would let you in on raids "LOLRET". But for the majority of the time I was ret. I loved it, could still do a decent amount of damage. Most people couldn't play Pre 3.0 ret, it took skill to kill someone. NOW all you need to do is Judge,DS,CS WIN GG. I agree with you that ret is pretty OP, the buff was good and long awaited/needed but it was TOO big. Like you said, people in greens 2 shotting S4 people....wtf? something definitely isnt right there. Sure the brief moment of OP was fun, but its time to accept the coming nerfs and get back to killing. The only thing that annoyed me with paladins in 3.0 was the amount of people that heard that ret was good and when AH shopping for greens. People who usually said "LOLRET" and had decent tanking/healing sets and would never touch ret suddenly stripped and put some greens from the AH on and said they were cool......
    Anyway, good post. Was waiting for a Paladin with some BALLS to say it

    EDIT: to contradict myself aswell, I agree with the poster above me. It isnt balanced around 70, but 80. I still think that it was a bit too big of a buff at 70, our abilities should have been scaled down at the lvl 70 ranks (like they are going to be)

  9. #9

    Re: Retri Paladins

    hey guys. while you guys are being really realistic about ret paladin, I also wanna put in my 2c.

    1. ret paladins have a very strong burst as of patch 3.0. So we do see the nerf coming regarding our burst. that's all well and fine

    2. rets are getting nerf in terms of their mana(jotw nerf to 15% base mana). Now, that's quite bad for us because of a few reasons:

       a) pve dps = oom

       b) We lose our survivability because we now have to conserve mana instead of healing.

       c) We can get mana burnt and we're pretty much a goner when we got no mana.

       d) We lose our potential to burst people down when we finally catch up to them.

    To defend these mana issue though, we can say:

       a) Don't forget that a lot of the arguments have been that melee dps'ers are supposed to get unlimited resources. rogues and warriors get the same treatment because rogues have energy and warriors have rage. rogues regenerate energy over time. Warriors have to generate rage through white hits or getting hit, and it pretty much a resource generation over time as well. Can warriors spam all their ability? no, they have to build rage up first. Can rogues spam? no (yes for at the start but once you rotate through a few abilities, it's pretty much the same as warriors because energy regeneration is still an over time process and requires careful management). I can see that blizzard is trying to cut down on us using ALL of our ability (edit here, wrong argument) and hence more like warriors/rogues and be situational.

    to work rotations into that you'd probably not use divine storm unless you're low on health (for the healing part of divine storm) or when some aoe is needed. Even then I think you can probably almost work 2 judgements into your rotation for mana regen before you divine storm. Sure, eventually maybe our mana WILL be gone, but I think (sorry no calculation cos I can't be bothered checking all the numbers) we'd do fine in raids/instances/heroics.


       b) Survivability doesn't seem to go well with an all-out dps spec. shadow preist has bad survivability all through 2.0 and they finally got a buff (not that it's a lot but still a buff). So I think the mana issue in terms of survivability is alright. AND no survivability issue in raids/instances (unless you have shit healer)

       c) We have a blue rage bar but this bar gets eff'd over by mana burning, and makes us USELESS. BUT, BUT, you guys know that...... while people are mana burning us, we can 1) hammer of justice (for 7 seconds) while doing decent damage. 2) repentance and wait for a judgement followed by some burst. 3) pillar hump, though I know it's situational. 4) bubble, not that I'd wanna waste cooldown just for mana burn. 5) cleanse drain mana/viper sting.

       d) Now that blizz nerfed our burst potential, can we get some snare? =D

    Anyways, I think our nerfs are fairly justified and I think we'll still be alright, ya dig?

  10. #10

    Re: Retri Paladins

    Mr Strykewrath,

    I was at work today when I registered to these forums and I was writing a whole long post but got busy into stuff at work and all of my ideas got shattered. All I can say, thanks a lot for your effort to write what I wanted to write

    I'm a Horde Paladin as I mentioned before and proud of what I'm playing, I love this class and going to be loyal to the end. As I mentioned in another post, 3.0.2 brought lots of fixes (Seal/Judgement mechanic) which mattered to me the most, nerfs incoming to our class after 3.0.2 and I don't even care cause no matter how much they nerf us we'll be much better than pre 3.0.2.

    Can't believe that you wrote everything I wanted to say except for you being a hunter at first, I was a Rogue here then a Shadow Priest and third character was a Paladin.

    Seeing you posting mate draws a smile on my lips really, cause I'm so disgusted by the massive number of QQ/Whining/Moaning threads about nerfs, really.

    For the people who keeps on saying OOM problems, know your class you'll never go oom and btw, using a mana pot won't scratch your dignity.

    And for the "ToTheGroundBaby" troll above me, I'm pretty sure you're one of those cheap classes who whinned and sucked Kalgan's **** to nerf us and I really don't mind being nerfed as long as I'm enjoying my class.

    Simply, we're amazing, nerfed or buffed. Loyal to the end!

    Mr. Strykewrath all salutations to you, brother.

    Made by myself while I'm bored..

  11. #11
    Legendary!
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    Re: Retri Paladins

    Well said, your fellow retadins can learn a lot from you

  12. #12

    Re: Retri Paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by paikillerii
    yeah it might be fun for a casual but for one player want to hit high rating and be in end raids as retri it is and it gonna be a nightmare!keep playing casual for rest of palas that want to be viable again balanced in pvp and pve lets just cut the money supplies to blizzard and dont care about this damn game anymore!it doesnt deserve it
    ya... basically what he's saying but with better grammar.It's nice that you could win some games and never got past 1700 on your pally pre-patch. But srsly, Whoopty Friggin Doo. If you were second in your raids on dps, your dps was horrible. Paladins shouldn't have been anywhere near rogues and mages in the dps department - unless you were a BE and used the seal twist exploit. Even then you were attached to the hip of a shaman for wf totem. Paladins should have the ability to break into the top tiers. After these nerfs, why the hell would you take a ret paladin with you to a raid? Regen? plenty of classes have that. His damage? lolret. Off-heals? you get what now... 2 if you DONT dps? So ya, why even bother with a ret paladin? We're back where we were pre-patch. Not viable in arena, not viable in end-game. Raid stacking may be less important now, but nobodys going to seriously gimp their dps for a ret paladin over a rogue. Basically what blizzard has done here is re-asserted that you better put your fucking shield on and stand in the back like a good sidekick.

  13. #13
    Deleted

    Re: Retri Paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinOfHolyness
    So ya, why even bother with a ret paladin? We're back where we were pre-patch. Not viable in arena, not viable in end-game.
    no we are not were we were pre-patch seal of command 45% pre patch was 70 % so... we are worse from some guys opinions (maybe not so worse, i'm not complaining we are not good anymore, but affecting such an old talent, in this manner)

    anyway blizzard showed everyone what he means with "balancing paladins", after a lot of small nerfes they ...looooooooooool "Blessing of Might (Rank 8 ) and Greater Blessing of Might (Rank 3) now increase AP by 306. (Up from 305)", wow i was so anxious about that boost.
    also considering the new pet you get from kara... wtf boubleheart? so that is what blizzard thinks paladins are
    i sure have to mention the "INTO THE GROUND BABY" statement of a nerd(most programmers are nerds, about 98% of them) that actually thinks he is funny

    yeah this is a whine in case you didnt saw it, a whine about the image of retri pala, created by blizzard developers and presented to all the other players

  14. #14

    Re: Retri Paladins

    I registered to respond to the " QQ " threads, but from a different perspective. I too have been retribution for a long time, going on 4 yrs.

    1. Overpowered.
    We were given level 80 tuned spells and abilities at level 70. We are a burst spec( purposely designed to have massive crits) that has no other viable methodology (in pvp that is). A little history :We were refered to as " lolret" for a very good reason ( blizzard stated that sometimes hybrids were "detuned as much as 30 to 40 % of the dps of pure classes) our main dps seals had to hurt us or rely on a gamble to work ( seal of casino anyone ). People denigrated ret. Getting accepted in a raid took masterful persuasion skills and luck. The whole wow community accepted and believed stigma based on ignorance. Skilled , knowledgeable paladins came to the front espousing the virtues and abilities of the spec. Ret began to get taken in, but acceptance (and this is key) was not on the plate.

    Then patch 3.0 was released and the whole shooting match changed. Retribution was strong, very strong and the naysayers for the most part were forced to accept a paradigm that caused probs. While not respected the damage abilities could not be ignored. On a whole you had (tons of former holy and prot paladins)retribution paladins going everywhere exacting a revenge on those who laughed. Ret had a day in the sun. To paladin in WoW has not been easy, its been emotional and trying and full of unnecessary drama. What did blizzard actually think would happen when all those ret converts found out the spec was as strong as it was...sheesh.

    I used that illustration of overpowered to show some of the " behind the scenes" community reactions that have\are going on with how retribution is percieved and responded too. I never saw a single soul anywhere from blizzard attempting to explain that when the expansion hits these OP spells and abilities would just normalise. The community QQ'd and then pallies QQ'd right back.

    2.Were the nerfs needed, yes.
    3. Could blizzard have handled it better? yes.

    What this last set of actions say to me is that the developers really dont have a clear vision of the paladin class and thats the real nerf. This game is blizzards and what goes on in it is fostered or catered to by blizzard. A class cannot be OP unless its designed that way. If they really wanted to change the game, then they have to let some changes run the course. Parity has a high price.

  15. #15

    Re: Retri Paladins

    Thanks for the replys everyone, nice to see your point of views as well.

  16. #16

    Re: Retri Paladins

    I would also like to say that even after the nerfs my paladin is much more fun to play then ever before. I remember leveling as a retribution paladin and getting scoffed at because of "lolret". I ended up talenting holy for the longest time because nobody wanted to play with a retribution paladin, I was not viable for instances as far as they were concerned.

    I believe balance will be attained, and even if it isn't I will still play my pally. I thank you Strykewrath for such a wonderful post!

  17. #17

    Re: Retri Paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by Twist3d
    I would also like to say that even after the nerfs my paladin is much more fun to play then ever before. I remember leveling as a retribution paladin and getting scoffed at because of "lolret". I ended up talenting holy for the longest time because nobody wanted to play with a retribution paladin, I was not viable for instances as far as they were concerned.

    I believe balance will be attained, and even if it isn't I will still play my pally. I thank you Strykewrath for such a wonderful post!
    THis what you call battered wife syndrom.

  18. #18

    Re: Retri Paladins

    Nicely summed (I've got a Paladin alt). I am posting to answer a few QQ posts I've noticed here.

    During patch 2.4 my guild killed KJ. And all that time, we had a ret paladin in our rows. Why? Because the person playing the char is a cool guy. We took him over "insane dps" warlock and we never regretted it. He will raid with us during WOTLK and I am sure he'll perform good. Also, we had a ret paladin in our guild who managed to hit 1900 during S3 with a HUNTER teammate.

    So yea, if you actually play the game and if you don't lose time whining and thinking about some Blizzard conspiracy - you can actually have a good time.

    I myself play a Shadow Priest. I've been hitting the lowest numbers of DPS meter in T6 content since I can remember walking in there (save a few fights like Supremus and Illidan). I did kinda feel bad, but then again - I am not playing in order to break the dps meter and tease other people. I play because I want to see the encounter. And during that encounter, I've a task to do, much like other 24 guys playing with me. We all press 6 buttons at most, it's not a question of skill there, it's question of class mechanics and encounter that determines if you will take that #1 spot on Recount. You cannot compete with a rogue. But then, why would you? Isn't seeing and defeating an encounter enough while you performed your best reward in itself?

  19. #19

    Re: Retri Paladins

    Teh truth is we were OP but it wasnt about the dmg. If you are end game content raider you should know that ret paladins werent on top of dmg meters. The problem was as always pvp. Firs thing is who with a little bit of common sense will give any class shield which will protect him from any dmg for 12 seconds while still dpsing.
    The second thing is OP pvp healing.
    We miss all the proper pvp skills like interrupts, intercepts which you can time witch your team partner and basicaly skills you can put your strategy on. The only thing besides mindless trying to catch your target and nuke him down was the OP bubble and heals.
    If you nerf dmg instead of nerfing bubble and heals and giving us some proper pvp skills we will end up with still a lot of survivability but no ability to be able to play strategicaly and no possibility to kill our target whatsoever.

    Imo blizzard wants to keep our "unique" (bubble, OP heals) class intact and there is the biggest problem.
    They have no fucking clue how to fix us. If we are going to be competetive in DPS we will be OP in pvp as far as bubble and heals stays the same.
    They spent freaking few months doing beta tests and yet they fail to se the numbers- What a FUCKING bullshit.

    I dont blame any communities about saying we are OP coz its true, we are OP on live servers atm. But remember its not our fault, its the silly Blizzard who failed once again.
    Balance in pvp is about geting proper tools to put your skills in and thats make the difference. If paladins will not get any decent pvp tools and stay with "you can bubble and heal" stuff we will never be balanced. And they will nerf our dmg to the ground coz bubble in pvp was never a good idea. Divine protectio is cool you get 50% less dmg and slower attacks but your opponent can keep cooldowns and shut you down for that time but ffs take this freaking bubble away and give some real pvp tools.

    And someone mentioned paladin actually getting ratin 1900 with hunter..... come on. Why do ret paladins should be so happy about geting 1900 like it is something uber awesome. As far as i know 1900 is not the best rating you can get ( irony). And ratio warriors,druids:Paladins is more like 1000 to 1 in high brackets.

  20. #20

    Re: Retri Paladins

    I just saw a post with a dmg meter screenie 2 paladins on top with like 1900 dps....speaking about ret dps in raids is OP seriously it made me rofl.
    Seriously if you have 1900 dps in MH you are terrible ret paladin and on top of that the other players on this list seem to be like mega crap.

    My dps in SWP on more mele friendly bosses like brutallus or Eredar twins is more like 2500 DPS but im faaar behind warriors doing 3000k DPS and our gear is equal. If we are so OP in pve why i cant beat warriors on single target encounters? Ye sure maybe i suck but apart that ?
    I blame PvP nothing more.

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