Questions for Paladins

[Mysmere]

i think you should go look at a boomkin again. what do they lose? /sorry idk what you're talking about.

popping a cooldown is popping a cooldown

[Xzizt]

I cant really understand why all people complain about Retradins..

Myself (Rogue) think its much more fun to duel a retradin because they are a "hard" opponent, sure I loose but I also win alot against them..

And if the bubble? pfft, Vanish<3

Wait, and pewpew again.. Everything is about timing and right combinations of your attacks..

My point: I like retradins as they are now : ) (Locks boomkins Arcane mages.. and last of all warriors.. lool ez)

[Mysmere]

I cant really understand why all people complain about Retradins..

Myself (Rogue) think its much more fun to duel a retradin because they are a "hard" opponent, sure I loose but I also win alot against them..

And if the bubble? pfft, Vanish<3

Wait, and pewpew again.. Everything is about timing and right combinations of your attacks..

My point: I like retradins as they are now : ) (Locks boomkins Arcane mages.. and last of all warriors.. lool ez)

/agree. pally bubbled. you vanished. you could wait for your health to regen or eat/bandaid.
for some reason people see bubble as end all be all.
a cooldown is a cooldown
and yes, a good rogue can come awfully close to beating me (like 5% health left or w/e)

[Xzizt]

/agree. pally bubbled. you vanished. you could wait for your health to regen or eat/bandaid.
for some reason people see bubble as end all be all.
a cooldown is a cooldown
and yes, a good rogue can come awfully close to beating me (like 5% health left or w/e)

There is just one thing that buggs me -.-' Thats the paladins heals.. which can be quite high sometimes XD

[Mysmere]

all things equal he should get about a 2k heal off during a repent or stun (wounding poison) otherwise you've got control of those. crits will make that go about 4.5k. yes our healing was rather ridiculous when repent lasted 10 seconds. i could afford to cleanse off wound and then heal to full. but 6 second minus global cooldown just isn't long enough for that.

the little mini heals you see interrupt our swing timer and most likely lose us more damage than the health we gain (700 with wound)

if i'm lucky tho wound poison will be near the end of its duratoin and dissapear before heal goes off during repent....sorry..

[Maneken]

There is just one thing that buggs me -.-' Thats the paladins heals.. which can be quite high sometimes XD

As blue post stated, you will have enough mana to use 3-4 main skills(in which isnt include any heals, consecration, how etc).
So, if paladin put few heals youll be watching paladin which have less and less mana in fight.

[Amgyn]

adding a 0.5 second cast (so they have to stand still) to all paladin abilities would help 8)

[Marudas]

You sir, original poster, are slightly confused.

While it is true ret paladins are overpowered on live servers, some of the things you said are not the case.

All hybrid specs have a smidge of other ability in each of their trees, usually. For example, Feral Druids get a talent that gives them healing based on a percentage of their Strength. For Ret paladins, we get spell damage on a percentage of our Attack power, as rets used to have to gear for int, and other extra stats that made it hard to have a uniform gear set.

If you want to beat a ret pally, all you have to do is kite one. Our achillies heel is that we have very few ways to catch up with someone. If you have a runspeed enchant on your boots, its nearly impossible. The only thing to watch out for is respentance, which is a slightly ranged incapacitate, which i would reccomend trinketing off to stay ahead of him. Stun can only be used from a shorter distance, so if you have any slowing effects its hard to keep up.

Having plate and doing damage sounds like a huge bonus, but really it only gives us the advantage on rogues, and hunters, which a good hunter should be fully capable of keeping us at arms length anyway.

As for the bubble tactic...well, yeah, its a bit mean. Though his attack speed is reduced by 100%, they can still hurt you very badly in it. Luckily, bubble is a 5 minute cooldown, so you won't see him doing it every time. If he bubbles, Just run away. Same strategy as ever, just play keep away for a few seconds.

I wouldn't worry about ret paladins too much anymore. Blizzard, who claims they HAVEN'T caved to peer pressure, are hotfixing in more ret nerfs. After this nerf, blast a paladin with a few mana burn techniques, and enjoy killing him slowly.

Now have fun. My only hope is that people shut up and get off the NERFRETPALLIESTHEY'RENOTAJOKECLASS bandwagon soon and talk about the MASSIVE problems with Arcane Mages, Moonkins and Some Mutilate rogues.

[quev]

Great thread, loving it so far. Lots of constructive talk and ideas circulating around.

I'm gonna try to answer the question of where I would like to see ret in the future.

Now, people have suggested that paladins have so many skills and attributes which give them a whole arsenal of things making them OP. I have also noticed that not too many people have recognized the mobility of paladins and how susceptible they are to being picked at from a distance, and also what they can then do against the attacking opponent. Whilst some people have suggested that we need a distance closing ability like warriors and rogues have to compensate for a reduction in burst dmg, I would prefer the class to become LESS LIKE a warrior, but instead I think we could keep the great burst but loose out in the distance closing department. I'm sure this could still be balancing to ret but from a different approach, and as an ideal result ret would be balanced but also unique. Further from the warrior class instead of more like it.
Just a thought...

[Tyvlen]

Ok, i respec'd my Holy to ret to see what the fuss is about, and yeah its fun to be able to actually dps again. And what everyone is saying is that we need a snare, but we have one, Judgement of Justice is a snare that doesnt count as a snareing effect so they cant use escape artist or sprint or shapeshift out of it, granted it doesnt reduce their movement hugely, but it does reduce it significantly. Ret pallies are all Burst, similar to mages, if we crit on our first few atk's we tend to win because we can crit hard, however if we dont manage to get crits or lucky proc's (Seal of Casino) then odds are we fall behind on the pvp dmg output against whom ever were fighting. Ret does seem OP atm, but thats bound to happen and its not our fault, but they hurt the heck out of Holy and Prot by nerfing dmg across the board for all pallies. I think we'll be fine if Bliz will take the time to tweek some of the stuff they just nerfed a bit. But they dont have a very good track record with us Pallies thats for sure. Ok, sorry for the wall of text.

[rbarton15]

Just spitballin' here. But what if they made Ret Pallies "halfway between" Prot Pallies and Holy Pallies?

To put it another way, split the damage evenly (somehow) between melee and spellcasting abilities? Say, shorten the stun effect on Judgement of whatever you call it, but add damage. That way, the melee damage is not too over the top. And the spellcasting portion of the damage is on par with other caster types. Either way, I don't think ret's should have a bubble. Holy and Prot, that makes sense to me, healing and protecting others. But the ret paladin is all about "killing the evil enemy", not protecting himself. Right? Think of it like this: Give fury/arms warriors a bubble, and see what happens. The bubble is what separates you from the animals, right? (JK) But that would be sickly OP. Fury/Arms warriors with self-generated bubbles? Yikes. And then let them heal. Gadzooks.

Anyway, I was just tossing some thoughts around. Not slamming pallies at all. I hope that Blizz finds a way to un-ass this situation without being too over-reactive. Thank you everyone for the great feedback. I learned a lot.

[Mysmere]

i've gotta say the most boring thing and also the most challenging (interesting) thing about pallies is that we're totally reactionary. we cannot control a fight (lol hoj?) its a grind against some classes like warlocks and face bashing against others like rogues and wars.

i've gotta say that to make this class "good" is to give it average damage and some "slight" control. i know the mana cost increase on targets hit by crusader strike has been suggested a few times...

its an uphill battle as ret in many ways...

[DETdream]

Or fear them... I've never seen a undead paladin

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