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  1. #21

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nørf
    As i wrote in my reply i know its not all about meters and yes i know a disc priest is a tank healer, but there is 25 people in a raid, not the tank only. I would not like that disc priest i would take in the raid to slack 75% of the time (hence boss fights are in average 75% faster than the trash in between) or be rather useless as im 100% sure any other healing class, paladin fx. could do the job just as good and still be a good overall healer.

    However i have nothing against disc, it was fantastic pre 3.0.2 as PvP spec, very surv focused, made BG's alot of fun. I have no clue at this moment how it is in PvP though as i havnt tried.
    So far, my best night has been 749 aegis procs. Now, I'm still not sure if WWS shows only the buffs applied or also buffs renewed..I can't tell and I have sat down to figure it out. But, at the very LEAST, my Aegis is absorbing 1k per application. So we're talking 749k damage that never happened. And it wasn't all on the MT's. some DPS here and there (remember, mending can crit now, and bounces really easily on AOE damage fights) and the priest themselves (Which means I don't have to worry about my own health now, and neither does any other healer). If you can't see the value of the Disc priest, look at a WWS report and find out how many Aegis' were applied. Then multiply it by 1k (it's a VERY conservative estimate of what each aegis will actually do) and then add it to their raw healing numbers.

    Take my additional 750k prevention and I jump from 7th (out of 8 healers, right above the Holy Pally) to 4th, above both Chain healers and one of the three CoH-ers (yeah, it was a weird healing night).

  2. #22

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mora
    So far, my best night has been 749 aegis procs. Now, I'm still not sure if WWS shows only the buffs applied or also buffs renewed..I can't tell and I have sat down to figure it out. But, at the very LEAST, my Aegis is absorbing 1k per application. So we're talking 749k damage that never happened. And it wasn't all on the MT's. some DPS here and there (remember, mending can crit now, and bounces really easily on AOE damage fights) and the priest themselves (Which means I don't have to worry about my own health now, and neither does any other healer). If you can't see the value of the Disc priest, look at a WWS report and find out how many Aegis' were applied. Then multiply it by 1k (it's a VERY conservative estimate of what each aegis will actually do) and then add it to their raw healing numbers.

    Take my additional 750k prevention and I jump from 7th (out of 8 healers, right above the Holy Pally) to 4th, above both Chain healers and one of the three CoH-ers (yeah, it was a weird healing night).

    Remember that just because you got a divine aegis proc, or cast a PW:S on someone, does not mean that damage was ever negated... especially if you were getting divine aegis procs on non-tanks.

  3. #23

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merin
    Discipline is fantastic. My Shield absorbs 4500, and a triple crit Penance is over 13,000 (over 16,000 with Aegis stacking) healing across two seconds that avoids LoS and costs peanuts to cast. Let's count in Glyph'd renew as well and PoM, which can now also crit.

    When they tone down Viper Sting (they will) and do the pass on double DPS problems, Discipline will rocket to one of the best PvP healers rather than just a Mana Burn bot.

    ROFL at Holy being better, holy fuck you suck.
    I am still waiting on that screenshot of a 4500 PW:S. While you're at it, show me your penance ticking for over 2800 non-crit, too.

    Also, you talk about glyphed renew and prayer of mending, as if those make discipline better than holy when, in fact, a holy priest not only has those abilities also, but has better talents to improve them than does discipline.

  4. #24
    Brewmaster Nørf's Avatar
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    Re: Disc is terrible.

    You're right Mora, but in that case how does a disc priest really classify as a healer then?
    I mean, seeing retri paladins being nearly on top atm healingwise, are they healers too then?
    Disc priest doesnt really have a spot right now and even though the damage count as it never happened, due to the disc priest, there aint really a way you can call him a healer.

    Edit - As a friend of mine said, disc priest can be classified as support, but thats never been a catagory like DPS, Healer, Tank - you get my pointe.

  5. #25

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    I specced disc from shadow last night for a bit of fun to see what i can heal in pvp and I was totally impressed!

    My shield although not absorbing 4500 it did absorb roughly 4000, and with my resiliance and aegis from my heals I was pretty much unkillable.

    My biggest bug bear is that I couldnt use penance on myself lol

    I was basically in the middle of 6-8 horde and 2-3 of us alliance, I kept a warrior fully healed with penance, going from his 2k health up to maximum health (12k) in one penance + renew. I would then keep shield up on me and renew, and flash heal/renew/pom on the other allies around me.

    Ok I didnt run out of mana at all, and unfortunatly I couldnt heal through the hordes DPS for more than a minute or two, but I stayed alive through at least 3 respawns of my fellow allies, without going oom and i loved it.

    It wasnt until 3 ret pallies joined the foray that i got raped lol

    All in all, I love the Disc spec, i feel like i can stay alive forever and keep at least one other person alive for a lot longer than if they werent getting help. However, I have not tried holy yet so im unsure what it measures against BUT i have already decided that it will be a long time until i respec

    Lent from boulderfist if u want to check my gear (mainly pvp merciless gear)

  6. #26

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nørf
    You're right Mora, but in that case how does a disc priest really classify as a healer then?
    I mean, seeing retri paladins being nearly on top atm healingwise, are they healers too then?
    Disc priest doesnt really have a spot right now and even though the damage count as it never happened, due to the disc priest, there aint really a way you can call him a healer.

    Edit - As a friend of mine said, disc priest can be classified as support, but thats never been a catagory like DPS, Healer, Tank - you get my pointe.
    well, i can see you'r trying to be serious so i won't be too big of a dick >.>

    first of all, judgement of light (i think that's what it's called) is broken, so you cna't really base anything off that. meters aren't everything. if you're a smart healer or raid leader you can read the healing meters to see who's actually being effective. as of now disc is perfectly viable for pve. (imo) they are better single tank healers than pallies, and if they aren't stupid they can raid heal as well. you commented about hyjal trash i think and how disc priests are worthless there as opposed to aoe healers. i think that's flat out wrong. disc can still cast heals on the raid =P.

    i specced disc the second my server came online (something like 10 hours late) and have loved it. since i'm not a complete moron i don't look at the meters and automatically say "oh man it's worse i'm not first anymore". a good priest can go disc and be amazingly useful.

    before any comments of me being a bad player or blah blah blah. i'm the priest CL in my guild and we had respectable progression before 3.0 (illidan down).

    my armoury is somewhat out of date but for people who put a lot of weight into gear-
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...thas&n=Healium

  7. #27

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merin
    Discipline is fantastic.
    I agree.

    Healing as a Disc is now very different from healing as a Holy Spec. Its a new mindset. Disc is all about mitigation, not the big heals you are used to as Holy. Disc is all about PW:S, and having penance and flash heal proccing Grace, Aegis, and Inspiration.

  8. #28

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by iootnega
    I agree.

    Healing as a Disc is now very different from healing as a Holy Spec. Its a new mindset. Disc is all about mitigation, not the big heals you are used to as Holy. Disc is all about PW:S, and having penance and flash heal proccing Grace, Aegis, and Inspiration.

    When disc gets the right gear.. (most still use alot of spirit gear... Crit seems more usefull now) We are gonna be amasing healers... Already now im loving, its a new fantastic way to heal imo. For once in about a year im actualy liking to heal again.
    Everyone thinks their world is falling.. If they had a solid sense of perspective, they probably wouldn't be gamers.

  9. #29

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Also, in regards to mana efficiency, I need to do some theorycrafting and some ingame testing, but when Flash Heal Procs Aegis, it should almost result in a mana free heal, due to Rapture (mana return after casting flash heal, and mana returned after Aegis absorbs damage). For Disc priests, Flash Heal should be our go-to spam heal, with PW:S and Penance when their CD's are up.

  10. #30

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nørf
    I really have to say that 1 thing is how much you like the spec yourself, but at its current state id never take a disc priest to any raid.
    A very skilled priest tried it in a hyjal run a week or so ago, he was 3% behind the second last on the healing meter. Not saying that means alot cause it might be a life saver, but in the long run id really rather take a holy priest than a disc priest.
    Im just not convinced.. At all
    It's a bummer that there are still people out there that think healing meters matter in the slightest. If the boss goes down, then the healers have done their job. A CoH healer or Chain Healer is often going to top the meters by 10% or more, but good luck keeping a tank up with those spells.

    If someone isn't carrying their share of the load, you wont see it on the healing meters as much as you'll see it in the death count. Let's leave the meters to the DPS.

  11. #31

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hospital
    No. It doesn't do well in PVP at the moment. Its GARBAGE in PVP at the moment. Its completely inferior to every other spec at the moment. Every Disc Priest I know is 400 points lower rated than they were two weeks ago.

    The only reason people are still trying to play it is they haven't figured out how good Holy is IMO.

    I'd like to say it will be better at 80, but I don't think its true.
    Welcome to being a Paladin healer in arena. It sucks doesn't it?

  12. #32

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    There is alot of talks about Ret Paladins being top healers. Let me explain a couple things. 1 - While our instant self heal DOES crit usually for 2k plus, we rarely use it enough to satisfy being a "top" healer. There were a couple of changes that have been added and can be veiwed easily. 1 is that Judgement of Light is counting for our own healing. Really, try it. If you cast it on a target, you start to see all these green numbers pop up. This is because it is infact going to our own healing. This can ALSO crit. That is why it is so high because Judge Light is based off of AP/SP both of which ret has significantly more than a holy/prot pally. Second is Divine storm. Crits in hyjal from the ability are insane even with the upcoming nerfs. Getting 12k total DS crits are counting for 2400 heal spread out between 3 people every 10 seconds. On single target it goes down significantly to about maybe 500 between 3, but this is adding up. I think that people are looking to much at raw meters and not actually breaking down where the sources are and that is the issue. I myself as ret, place about 3rd/4th even 2nd at times due to Judge Light.

    NOTE: Druid Leader of the pack is considered the healing of the individual proccing, hence if i crit it ALSO goes towards my healing. This USED to be the case of Earth Shield of Resto shamans but ES is now being correctly added to the shaman's healing.

  13. #33

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzweidrei

    Remember that just because you got a divine aegis proc, or cast a PW:S on someone, does not mean that damage was ever negated... especially if you were getting divine aegis procs on non-tanks.
    Well, we were working on Kil'jaden, so there's a very strong chance that the absorbs did work...between shadow orbs, chain lightning (legion lightning? can't remember) and the AoE fire damage, most likely the shields did something. But, i'll meet you in the middle and say 2/3rds of them worked, 1/3rd were wasted. that's still 500K absorbed damage. Also, I'm not sure if WWS counts refreshes of the buff, so it could be higher.

    Sure, you could say that discipline is more of a "support" class, but that's fine. They are still a healer (who can complete with pallys as far as healing output) with absorb and additional talents that can help (spirit buff, PI, PS, Mass Dispel, etc etc)

    I still think that disc has a viable place in a raid, I know I have had a place in my guilds raids.

  14. #34
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by iootnega
    Also, in regards to mana efficiency, I need to do some theorycrafting and some ingame testing, but when Flash Heal Procs Aegis, it should almost result in a mana free heal, due to Rapture (mana return after casting flash heal, and mana returned after Aegis absorbs damage). For Disc priests, Flash Heal should be our go-to spam heal, with PW:S and Penance when their CD's are up.
    This is correct. Also due to the fact that with few points in holy, Greater Heal's effectiveness is much more limited. With a spec in disc (which seems to end up at 57/14/0), you will not gain the reduced mana cost to GH. However, you can glyph FH's casting cost down by 10%. This along with the combinations of disc talents makes it your go-to spell in the bulk of your rotation. However, that said, GH is a good spell to save in emergencies after you drop a shield on a tank who's taking heavy damage. Due to Borrowed Time, you can shave it's cast time to near that of Flash Heal's. Also, because your primary focus is preventing damage more than healing through it, you will gain more shield procs (though they will absorb less damage) through flash heal, thus maximizing the talent's effectiveness in the long run.

  15. #35

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    If you think disc priests are bad, try a holy pally. In the dps department alone disc priests do twice the damage of a holy pally without even trying. And holy pally mana regen is practically non existent unless we are hitting our opponents from melee range, which is oh such as great place to be for a healer...

  16. #36

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Disc Rapes.
    Your terrible.

  17. #37

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    disc atm i rekon is the best support healer / survival class atm in the whole game,they dun need to be the best MT healer, the multiple target healer but rather the best support / survival class. i luv my priest as disc atm its a awesome spec with all its procs. Not very long ago did 2v4 me and a warrior S2/S3 geared vs S2/S3 geared warrior, Spriest, ele shammy and rogue in hellfire penisula @ broken hill, was kinda funny cos afta that we jus kept owning em

  18. #38

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nørf
    I really have to say that 1 thing is how much you like the spec yourself, but at its current state id never take a disc priest to any raid.
    A very skilled priest tried it in a hyjal run a week or so ago, he was 3% behind the second last on the healing meter. Not saying that means alot cause it might be a life saver, but in the long run id really rather take a holy priest than a disc priest.
    Im just not convinced.. At all
    People who read heal meters and use that as the only analysis tool for working out healing combinations is incompetent to say the least. The healing meter isn't going to give you a number on how much damage was prevented by the disc priest and damage prevention is the most mana effecient least risky heal available.

    Not to mention that healing meters are broken at the moment and are recording overhealing as effective healing.

  19. #39

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Also the fact that shielding from dmg isin`t affected by healing reduces and it actually raises tanks effective health going over the top counts something as well.

  20. #40

    Re: Disc is terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nørf
    You're right Mora, but in that case how does a disc priest really classify as a healer then?
    I mean, seeing retri paladins being nearly on top atm healingwise, are they healers too then?
    Disc priest doesnt really have a spot right now and even though the damage count as it never happened, due to the disc priest, there aint really a way you can call him a healer.

    Edit - As a friend of mine said, disc priest can be classified as support, but thats never been a catagory like DPS, Healer, Tank - you get my pointe.
    First off Blizzard has already stated that disc is a "HEALING" spec good for main tanks, i don't know where the hell you get information about it being a support class. Oh FYI if you have on healing gear and all you do in a group setting is heal......(that means your a healer). Understand that there a different kinds of healers with there own niche and way of keeping there targets alive.

    PS.
    tell your friend if he has a priest, delete it, cause its obvious he
    has no clue about what some of there jobs are.

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