1. #1
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    Avoiding the point MUCH?


    Shtevenen wrote:

    I've studied the compilation of all dps done on Patchwerk as well as other bosses. There is not a SINGLE dps report that has the shadowpriest in the top 10. Not with the new patch. Not with the changes. Not with anything. Shadowpriest dps sucks. it's across multiple raids. It's independnt of player skill.

    I would like to see an official blue statement from Blizzard categorically stating that it is even POSSIBLE for a shadowpriest to be in the top 10 let alone top 5 of dps on a equally skilled and equally geared raid.

    I am the GM of a sunwell clearing guild and played a shadowpriest in TBC and I see no reason WHATSOEVER to bring a shadowpriest to raid. I will be forced to switch to holy for the expansion. We have a druid that's decided to go moonkin and with his aura + innervate + combat rez + the 3% hit buff AND MORE DMG on top of that than a shadowpriest, why the hell would I put one in the raid. Their last gimmick (VE heal) has also been taken away.

    Basically my premise is that if you have a boomkin druid (which you should as they rock) adding ANY dps class/spec in place of your shadowpriest will make the raid group stronger with both increased utility as well as dps. ANY class/spec. Shadowpriests are the bottom of the barrel. It's what you will force your healing priests to play if the boomkin can't make a raid. That's about it.

    It's too late to make game changes now. Shadowpriests are dead. RIP. Farewell to the TBC glory days.
    Shtevenen
    Ghostcrawler reply:
    2008-10-28 09:06:45Re: Shadowpriests have no role in raiding! Pr
    VT does a lot of damage, but that's the juice we gave Shadow to be able to compete on the damage meters. We don't think it's a problem, at least for now.
    Ghostcrawler
    2008-10-29 12:24:28Re: Shadowpriests have no role in raiding! Pr
    There were two problems with linking Replenishment to VT.

    1) We wanted Replenishment to have a duration of 15 sec. VT has the same duration, but with a cast time so it would be hard to keep the two in sync. You'd either clip VT or have down time on Replenishment.

    2) Having Replenishment work on VT ticks would be awkward. You'd have the same problem of not wanting to renew it too early and lose ticks or too late and miss ticks.

    Mind Blast is simple. Cast it and Replenishement procs.
    .:There is not a SINGLE dps report that has the shadowpriest in the top 10.:.

    Am i missing something in the translation here? I must have cause I cant help but feel that the OP has a point and GC is missing it? My english not that gud so it is possible i missed something, anythoughts?
    Im a Priest that can tank Illidan. For ~~~ 6seconds & then, i go splat. <3 Dispersion.

  2. #2

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    I thought the same thing reading GC's reply. Both replies seem to have very little to do with addressing the original post that I almost thought it was a reply to another question/comment altogether.

    VT being doubled from 20% coefficient to 40% wont get us anywhere near our fellow DPS counterparts. If that's "the juice" we get to be competitive, I guess GC assumes we're pitting t6 s-priests against semi-afk warlocks in agility gear.


  3. #3
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    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ketesh
    If that's "the juice" we get to be competitive, I guess GC assumes we're pitting t6 s-priests against semi-afk warlocks in agility gear.
    I lol'd so hard at this... QFT

    So im not, just not understanding his post... it dose seem GC be avoiding the DPS "problem".

    I had a look through our spell book, and would like to know if there is another class in the game that use's 101% of its base mana for one full rotation?

    VT + SW:P + DP + MB + SW + MF
    16%+22%+25%+17%+12%+9% = 101% of base mana, one rotaion.

    While i know it slacks off after the first rotaion... but wow what a start up cost. Any Mages or Boomkin or ect.. having the same problem?

    At this point, i have to concider that Haste = OOM.... should i be colletting less haste more crit, so get my mana usage down but keep my dps more or less the same?... probly a nub question, but i have to get a second opionion.

    Thanks in Advance, and sorry if this has already been covered, then plz just link the forum post url
    Im a Priest that can tank Illidan. For ~~~ 6seconds & then, i go splat. <3 Dispersion.

  4. #4

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    Quote Originally Posted by giggles

    While i know it slacks off after the first rotaion... but wow what a start up cost. Any Mages or Boomkin or ect.. having the same problem?

    At this point, i have to concider that Haste = OOM.... should i be colletting less haste more crit, so get my mana usage down but keep my dps more or less the same?... probly a nub question, but i have to get a second opionion.
    Crit has become a very very solid stat, better than haste, and worth chasing after a certain spell power. Enjoy.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Happybucket's Avatar
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    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    I absolutely love the position of ele shaman on that chart

  6. #6

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro
    At the minute we are quite overpowered, we can heal to keep ourselves alive and yet do as much damage as mages/warlocks.
    FFS don't tell them. I don't want competition for my spot.


    WE SUCK. TRY WARHAMMER.

    RE ROLL

    Ummm, Yeah.


    Current beta/ptr build is awesome. I really want to raid as shadow on PTR to see where I can get.

  7. #7

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    Quote Originally Posted by giggles

    I had a look through our spell book, and would like to know if there is another class in the game that use's 101% of its base mana for one full rotation?

    VT + SW:P + DP + MB + SW + MF
    16%+22%+25%+17%+12%+9% = 101% of base mana, one rotaion.
    1. Spriests don't have a rotation, I wouldn't even explain it as a changing rotation that "slacks off".
    2. If spec'd properly we only need to cast SW:P once for the entire duration of an encounter.
    3. If you're casting VT, SW:P & DP as the first 3 spells on the inital pull you're not making the most of your mana pool. By casting SW:P during your 2nd stack of Shadowweaving you will be forced to cast it again in 3 more casts to gain the 5 stack benefit.
    4. Dots are not cast often in relation to direct damage spells. For example MB when talented is on a 5.5sec CD with a 1.5sec cast... meaning that you would cast it twice for the duration of VT and 3 times for the duration of DP. With that in mind MB is going to cost you 34% & 51% of your base mana in the same time VT (16%) and DP (25%) are active.
    5. Spriests have a large capacity to regen mana, no only from spirit, but by the replenishment buff, dispersion & shadow fiend.

    My spriest has 256 haste (which increases mana burn) I do not have any mana issues whatsoever and can now chain pull entire instances and never have to sit and drink. With the spellpower change I have even taken to jumping out of SF and throwing heals on occasion and this doesn't really effect my mana pool that badly. On the other hand plenty of other classes are having a little trouble balancing their mana pool so I don't really see what you're trying to say.

  8. #8

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro

    I will further raise you a complex simulation of level 80 dps
    @ The (quoted) author of this thread. You sir, I believe just got 110% proven incorrect Taking the time to search DPS Chart in Google FTW.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Gaiwyn's Avatar
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    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    <3 Spriests. Staying Holy myself, though.

    Wait for level 80, in a real raid situation, with your regular setup. Then come back and see if you have any grounds for saying that Spriests in raids are useless from a DPS perspective.

    If you enjoy a class-type, play that class-type. Otherwise, change mains and play something you enjoy, regardless of DPS effectiveness.

    Gaiwyn

  10. #10

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    Totally agree, everyone should be playing what they enjoy not what they feel the need to in order to gain a raid spot. This is why Blizzard went to such painstaking lengths in changing raid buffs & debuffs. You shouldn't get any value from raid stacking and every class can compete in an even sense for whatever roles they are capable of, be it dps, healing or tanking.

    If for some reason spriest dps is dead awful to the point they can't compete in the raid environment blizzard will buff them. This game is always changing and you'd have to be pretty niave to suggest that no classes are going to have something changed after WotLK goes live.

  11. #11
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    There's not a single whiner on the forums who got a clue.

    Lets discuss DPS once we cleared Naxxramas 25 on live, mkay?

  12. #12

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    There's not a single whiner on the forums who got a clue.

    Lets discuss DPS once we cleared Naxxramas 25 on live, mkay?
    Agreed.

  13. #13
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    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    @ Eloro , thanks for clearing that up... thought sumthing was fishy.. those reply's from GC didnt make sense.
    It is a bit missleading tho.

    [offtopic]

    Was having a look at that wowwebstats you posted... have a look at the lock, Dexx...His Fellgaurd had a 65K crit Cleave... ...that is insaine.

    lol sorry, I like big numbers :P

    [/offtopic]

    @ Nezoia ==> agreed

    Cant wait for Mind Seer. Lvl 75 right? Seems its making up most of the damage(*), & dottab has my keyboard asking for a vacation. lol.

    (*) on that webstats Eloro posted.
    Im a Priest that can tank Illidan. For ~~~ 6seconds & then, i go splat. <3 Dispersion.

  14. #14

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    Shadowpriests are struggling with mana at level 80. Nuff said

  15. #15

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetoez
    Shadowpriests are struggling with mana at level 80. Nuff said
    i'm sorry i dissagree.

    i really think shadow priest "gamestyle" might have changed, i mean now you won't get a raid spot cause you return mana, you actually need a fixed rotation to increase your dps, to combine the correct talents.

    from the testing on beta, i did, but since i play usually holy i didn't want to relay only on that so we had 2 shadowpriest. Ofc my dps wasn't as high as him, and our spec was different (i speced 14 into discipline while his spec didn't include 3/3 meditation). my mana was really fine, even more then fine, i didn't even use dispersion although i could. his mana was also fine.

    how did we do? fine, as i said my dps wasn't highest though i did the same dps as a BM hunter, he was 2nd with only a rogue passing him. why? cause he can play. for example we went patchwerk i did 2989 DpS while he did 3674 DpS (25m raid, boomkin), He was second, and used dispersion. meaning its basically a matter of skill and geting used to it.

    on the other hand on live: my damage is shit, 6,480 was the highest mindblast crit i saw, even in a sunwell raid. i have raid buffed 33% crit (boomkin 38%), 17% hit (caped), 1788 shadow damage (shadow power w.e), 40 spell pene., 183 haste, i speced into shadow skiping every pvp talent picking only pve increase damage talents. Yet my damage is horriable. But my mana was fine.

    Yet on beta, at level 80 a skilled shadow priest preforms extremely high dps, while my dps was also pretty high. Mana was far from my problem, also threat wasn't a problem.

    i do see alot of whine over it, and i understand why, atm level 70 on live - the damage seems very "not balanced", yet we knew this is how things will look, and the balance will return at level 80 i guess.

  16. #16
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    Yet my damage is horriable. But my mana was fine.
    Because you got high damage and low haste, that's why. You would do more damage, but also have more mana problems if you had more haste.

    But who cares about level 70 damage anyway, as the mighty Sunwell falls over as domino bricks.

  17. #17

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    I have to say, even though I'm playing a Disc Priest for Lich King - Shadow Priests are the spec that has gotten the shaft the hardest.

  18. #18

    Re: Avoiding the point MUCH?

    What I am worried about is the dps past Naxxramas. During Karazhan, shadow priests totally annihilated dmg meters (well, due to FSW set mostly). So far, all dps reports originate from Naxxramas. How about other raids? Other tiers? It will also be interesting to see other tier set bonuses. I have a feeling that our dots gaining damage % up based on our crit is really really insane, we might do amazing dps later or we might just disappear if our dps sucks :/

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