is really disc better than holy for pvp ?

[sirdeck]

Yesterday, I tried an holy spec for arena, as I wasn't able to see an other use of guardian spirit.

I looked the advantages of disc spec for arena :
- pain suppression
- power infusion
- focused will
- lots of boost for the shield

As we know, it's very focused on pvp tanking, but with 3.0, I never survived an arena (we didn't loose always but I was never alive at the end) cause of the burst, even with pain suppression and infusion on me it was a no-match. Happily my partners used to manage to kill one or to damage enough while I'm dying, but it's kind of frustrating to feel so powerless as a healer.

That's how I did this spec :
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000

It's largely perfectible, blessed recovery doesn't work well with blessed resilience for example, but with this spec unless I failed my partners and I never died on the first burst (was in a 3v3 with demo destro and mage frost). The advantages in arena seems really OP :
- guardian spirit of course is really the best point of the spec, ours opponent didn't understood in most of the case, and even when they did there's nothing to do, 40% heal is huge and if u can't keep your partner alive he'll still survive.
- lightwell has been boosted to such a point that it's now really OP, I put it in beginning of the fight and even if i'm severely CC-ed, my partners can survive only with it (a hit doing 30% of your life doesn't occur that much if u have enough resi)
- blessed resilience has already proven to be really usefull, even more than focused will if a rogue is on u.
- circle of healing allows to not being CS-ed by mages or rogues
- surge of light is wonderfull with POM, COH, and even holy nova sometimes
- spirit of redemption is always a good thing to have, I should test with the glyph too, seems very powerful, but i only died once within 10 fights

I lost my mana regen, I go oom very fast with this spec, that's the problem with not having meditation, but fights are so short for now that it may not be an issue.

What do u think about it ? /discuss

[Taurenburger]

all priests die fast... only the 51pt in shadow is good for survivability... atleast, that's what this hunter thinks

[Befaro]

hmmm...

maybe with level 80 when u have more points?

but guardian spirit and spirit of redemption sounds very cool :=)

[sirdeck]

they not only sound, they are very cool, it's already a very good spec for arena (i know that arena are meaningless until 80 but still), and imo, it's even better than disc.

I only really miss the 0.5 sec cast mass dispell, but that is manageable.

[tino]

Sounds like a really nice specc.

And keep in mind that at 80 you will have 10 more talent points and your specc could look like this

[Morodeer]

I've always looked into holy builds, and blessed recovery was one of the best options, mostly for me, as i don't have big resilience pool. PoM crits now, that's very big deal to surge of light, as u can do some big dmg to end somebody (Mindblast+smite+SW) and smite is more useful then SW (except breaking CC trick) as it comes to no dmg for you. can't be absorbed with things like shadowward, nether protection(or how it's called, destro talent)
Guardian's spirit is really OP, even with MS on target it's 3k heal for warrior e.g.
CoS=no LoS+instant cast
Blessed Recovery is not shit now, as it's stacking, so if u're taking more crits, u're healed for more.
Desperate prayer=big emergency heal, hello NS for priests
Inspiration now also works with PoM as it crits, and CoH helps to keep it on ur party. +25% for priest is awesome, and for warlock...
Spirit of redemption... the only thing, don't go LoS, or out of CoH range

and IMHO, Improved healing isn't worth that 2 points that u can put in Holy reach, as CoH-main antiLOS ability, and range for it is worth that 2 points

[Bluetoez]

all priests die fast... only the 51pt in shadow is good for survivability... atleast, that's what this hunter thinks

Pain Supression is much better.
Disc is always better than holy and shadow. Yes your dying easily but like blizzard said NOTHING is balanced at 70, it's all to do with 80. On my premade disc specced priest, i can survive 2 rogues on my own pretty easily, until i run out of mana.

[meowmeow]

Yesterday, I tried an holy spec for arena, as I wasn't able to see an other use of guardian spirit.

I looked the advantages of disc spec for arena :
- pain suppression
- power infusion
- focused will
- lots of boost for the shield

As we know, it's very focused on pvp tanking, but with 3.0, I never survived an arena (we didn't loose always but I was never alive at the end) cause of the burst, even with pain suppression and infusion on me it was a no-match. Happily my partners used to manage to kill one or to damage enough while I'm dying, but it's kind of frustrating to feel so powerless as a healer.

That's how I did this spec :
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000

It's largely perfectible, blessed recovery doesn't work well with blessed resilience for example, but with this spec unless I failed my partners and I never died on the first burst (was in a 3v3 with demo destro and mage frost). The advantages in arena seems really OP :
- guardian spirit of course is really the best point of the spec, ours opponent didn't understood in most of the case, and even when they did there's nothing to do, 40% heal is huge and if u can't keep your partner alive he'll still survive.
- lightwell has been boosted to such a point that it's now really OP, I put it in beginning of the fight and even if i'm severely CC-ed, my partners can survive only with it (a hit doing 30% of your life doesn't occur that much if u have enough resi)
- blessed resilience has already proven to be really usefull, even more than focused will if a rogue is on u.
- circle of healing allows to not being CS-ed by mages or rogues
- surge of light is wonderfull with POM, COH, and even holy nova sometimes
- spirit of redemption is always a good thing to have, I should test with the glyph too, seems very powerful, but i only died once within 10 fights

I lost my mana regen, I go oom very fast with this spec, that's the problem with not having meditation, but fights are so short for now that it may not be an issue.

What do u think about it ? /discuss

on the beta i speced holy and got instant gimped, my holy spec was similar to yours, i didn't take divine providance but i took serendipity (don't ask me why, no good reason).
i got almost 2 shoted by a rogue, actually by anyclass, poping the GS the sec i am "too low" using CoH to heal myself since its instant and can't be interupted, had ligtwell which did most of the healing. i took loads of damage, and mainly focused on healing myself and keeping myself up.

as discipline, without penance (i don't use penance often as pvp so i decided to spec without it), i almost got 2 shoted by a rogue, infact by any dps class, but with my defensive abilities i survived, adding my mana burns and some MCs. i couldn't help with CCing, mana burning and stuff as holy: for once my burn wasn't fast enough, and second i got gimped so fast.

i must say gaurdian spirit will be amazing as the 51 talent point in the discipline tree: lets face it if we wanted to MT heal all day, we will roll paladin and not spec dicsipline, especially since your so limited as a discipline priest in a pve raid. besides disipline tree which bothers around so much with mitigation should get the best mitigation heal - which is preventing a death, while at the holy tree that surves utility should get the burst heal, but hey, lets not look for logic. unfortunatly blizz thought it'll be funny and nice to make holy more valiable for pvp (although we have a full tree dedicated to pvp). even though i must say being as discipline in arena - if you had survivability problems it was merely a "l2p" problem (or blame lag w/e). i can say it's "easy" to kill you as holy, much more then as discipline, you are more of a "healer" as holy. in pvp that is.

i don't know i see the discipline pvp priest healer as the most "dangerous" healer of all, he is the most offensive one, with short mana burns, and amazing survivability talents, all the "fun" part is not spam healing self threw burst, but actually CCing, burning etc with the burst. so it was nice as holy to stand and heal in arena, mana went down faster then a mage spaming arcane explotion, but i'm really sorry to dissapoint all the believers.

discipline will stay the "strong" pvp tree. same as holy for the pve side. ofc you "can" spec discipline for pve (and you will most likely mana is much more easier as discipline, nub play).
as for pvp there are "too many" ways to spec, there is even a holy-dps/pvp spec which i see often on beta on 2vs2 setups with priests, haven't tried it myself, but just like the holy tree is worth the try, i guess the discipline holy dps healer is worth a try also, w/e good that can give.

[sirdeck]

There's one thing that I don't like with blessed recovery, is that it doesn't work while u are under blessed resilience (or it seems not to work).

maybe improved healing is 2point lost, I may try holy reach, sounds like a good option

@bluetoez : I don't know how two rogues can't kill u, I mean the shield lasts for 3 secs, prayer of mending twice heals for 2k each with poisons on u, and u have not other weapons. If the rogues are idiots and don't kick u ok. If they are spec mutilate it's even more expeditive with disc spec, I last 10 secs with full cd on me.

[meowmeow]

There's one thing that I don't like with blessed recovery, is that it doesn't work while u are under blessed resilience (or it seems not to work).

maybe improved healing is 2point lost, I may try holy reach, sounds like a good option

@bluetoez : I don't know how two rogues can't kill u, I mean the shield lasts for 3 secs, prayer of mending twice heals for 2k each with poisons on u, and u have not other weapons. If the rogues are idiots and don't kick u ok. If they are spec mutilate it's even more expeditive with disc spec, I last 10 secs with full cd on me.

do you even play on beta?
i mean really, create a premade and go talk.... you just sound like you never even tried a level 80 priest, comenting on someone who has.

i have seen bluetoez on beta, even sold him a glyph!! (remeber "cancel your AH of the glyph and mail to me"). and i can tell you i had same experiances as he said, playing discipline can get you extremely low, but you'll survive. i don't know - rogues have huge burst damage, but i didn't have a problem to "kite" them and kill them, mana wasn't a issue for me as discipline at all, except when i spamed holy nova.

and if you take a long stunn that you assume you won't survive - you use your own CD (like you trinket out for exaple, time a fear, and more).

[sirdeck]

do you even play on beta?
i mean really, create a premade and go talk.... you just sound like you never even tried a level 80 priest, comenting on someone who has.

i have seen bluetoez on beta, even sold him a glyph!! (remeber "cancel your AH of the glyph and mail to me"). and i can tell you i had same experiances as he said, playing discipline can get you extremely low, but you'll survive. i don't know - rogues have huge burst damage, but i didn't have a problem to "kite" them and kill them, mana wasn't a issue for me as discipline at all, except when i spamed holy nova.

and if you take a long stunn that you assume you won't survive - you use your own CD (like you trinket out for exaple, time a fear, and more).

A beta is a beta, I don't play beta, and I don't speak about a lvl80 spec. And if I played beta, I'd never use it to state a point, there can be lots of changes made on lvl 80 priest that u are not aware of because they're not up on beta build.

Men, I don't want to be agressive at all, but don't u think u are out of the debate here ? I only speak about what is on the live, because that is the only thing that as some importance, I can't and won't speak about lvl 80 holy priest survivability, I will only when I'll be lvl 80.

I didn't know these forums where beta forums, sorry for my mistake

edit : and I didn't ask for some tips to survive against rogues, if u are able to tank 2 rogues that's fine for u, I can't. In my situations, rogues are always spec mutilate, they trinket my fear, they sapped or blinded my partner and even with a trinketed cheap shot I still can't cast anything. I wish I had your skill

[Freawine]

when i read the first blue posts, and looked at the talent trees of the priest i got
soooo pissed (mostly because of Penance..i just found it..well a crapy 51 point talent 4 that tree, and the Guardian spirit beeing in the holy tree...i always, and i still do, think that they should swap places with thous 2 talents althou that may make priests a bit OP) at blizz and i rerolled lock ...i did that without testing the priest!..stupid i know XD

i love the playstile of the lock...but next to so meny burst my lock was dieing way to fast 4 me to enjoy the fights... after beeing ganked in one BG by at least 3-4 rogues at the same time at my rez spot i got pissed and loged the priest to get some vengeance! :P

i got rly surprise! i loved it
next to a hudge burst that is going on in BG's i was still beeing able to live next to shit loads of burst DPS and keep at least one more player alive next to me ^^

my main is once more a priest...

to get back to the post...i did try holy in BG's (not arenas...lag lag) and i found it way harder to stay alive...to many stunes/kicks/silences etc in the game 4 me to live as holy thrue em till i can heal..as disc!? bring it on ... :/ guardian spirit is a great pvp spell but holly tree is not worth the points to get to it at least thats mine opinion...

[ccckkk]

This is an interesting concept.

After 3.0.2 hit I even spent a few days trying different specs duelling the same (constant skill level) (S3) rogue with holy and disc pvp specs to provide some comparison. And didn't find too much difference - win either way ;D.

I haven't tried it but I have read several times that lightwell can be clicked while stunned also.

I personally didn't find holy survivability much worse (if at all) - and of course there is GS to fall back on also. [as well as desp. prayer, better renew, better pom, Coh: importantly all instant]

I've been doing 2s spec'd disc still and I have to say (everything else being equal) a lot of games that end up 1v1 (with me dead) would have been a win (or easier win) with Spirt of Redemption.

I'm not saying holy is better, and of course disc has its own advantages, but the discussion is certainly worth having.

Anyone else's exeperiences?

[meowmeow]

This is an interesting concept.

After 3.0.2 hit I even spent a few days trying different specs duelling the same (constant skill level) (S3) rogue with holy and disc pvp specs to provide some comparison. And didn't find too much difference - win either way ;D.

I haven't tried it but I have read several times that lightwell can be clicked while stunned also.

I personally didn't find holy survivability much worse (if at all) - and of course there is GS to fall back on also. [as well as desp. prayer, better renew, better pom, Coh: importantly all instant]

I've been doing 2s spec'd disc still and I have to say (everything else being equal) a lot of games that end up 1v1 (with me dead) would have been a win (or easier win) with Spirt of Redemption.

I'm not saying holy is better, and of course disc has its own advantages, but the discussion is certainly worth having.

Anyone else's exeperiences?

as i said, on beta as a level 80 i tried many specs combining discipline and holy, at first i went really deep and heavy in discipline, noticing that penance is "fun" can "save" but i rarely use it in pvp.

i speced this spec for a 2vs2:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...00000000000000

this also fits my gamestyle, the 3 points in absolution (less mana on dispelling, since i dispell alot and everything i can in my 2vs2) can be easily traded for the mental agility points. i tried having both and each time one, for me it wasn't noticable. i chose the absolution simpley by reveiwing how i play. i play with melee - either rogue, warrior or enhanc shaman, i sometimes even skip PI, and its the reason i skip DS/IDS as well. the buff will be purge, and atm the discipline tree - even the spirit buff gives no benifit to a disci healer. i'd rather have int. since i don't have spiritual guidance, and i don't have any talent in the discipline tree to increase my spell damage VS my spirit, i just "skip" the spirit buff (which is sad: so now this buff isn't usefull in pvp or pve).
as you see i have spirit of redemption, i also use the glyph (yes its awesome for pvp), i use the dispell magic glyph and the flash heal glyph. i use the minor innerfire glyph for more charges, and thats about all the glyphs i managed to get on beta.

improved inner fire - i always really want to take it, but considering i decided to have SoR i skiped it, having 32 charges on it for the pvp with the glyph, is pretty cool. also adds some spellpower (not a big enough amount to say its a must). i only wish it lasted longer then 10 mins (call me lazy).

[Bluetoez]

@Meowmeow, could you log on beta and make me a glyph of spirit of redemption please?

[meowmeow]

@Meowmeow, could you log on beta and make me a glyph of spirit of redemption please?

Can't make them, i bought them from some paladin called Bjorkey (retri)

[Bluetoez]

Aww, oki