Early Raids and Heroics are easier in comparison to TBC's Early Raids and Heroic

[Soxes]

I believe the reason blizzard implemented 10 and 25 man versions was to allow "casuals" as much of a chance (without completely turning WoW into Hello Kitty Adventure) to see content. Sure you may not be able to be consistent to a 10 man, but I'm sure you can make 1-2 two or three hour raids a week. Raiding is a time investment, just as any other aspect of the game.

I understand circumstances change, but if your joy playing WoW is based solely on your circumstances, why the fuck even play? I know I don't play because I love to see purple items and I have a load of free time on my hands. I play because the game is fun, and raiding is the path I have chosen to take. So then tell me, why should your personal situation affect how blizzard originally designed the game?

The problem falls on both sides. Raiders thinking they are better than casuals because they have the time to raid, and casuals hating on raiders and calling for ezmode content so they can see it. Both need to STFU and play the game for fun. Can't play WoW the way its designed because you don't have time? Deal with it. Cancel your account for all anyone cares. Blizzard just hit 11 million world-wide with WoW. I doubt they care about how dumb you are to spend your money spending days of your life leveling a character to 70 then asking for dumbed-down shit.

[Vakir]

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. I have to ask. What divine power gave you or he the right to decide who can and cannot see end-gmae content? I'm sorry. Are yuo on Blizzard's development teams? Are you paid a 6 didgit salary to make these kinds of judgements? No? Then don't ever try to tell somebody what they can and cannot be allowed to do.

Elitist little douchewads like you are the reason the "casuals" that you use as a negative slang word can't enjoy the game for the few hours they can get to play. "I can log on 5 nights a week and kill bosses so I should make all the rules on this server, not them". What a load of b.f.s. And you know what? I'm NOT a casual! I play no less than 4 full days a week. In fact, my work schedule is designed so that I can make at least 3/5 raid events. But what I have that you don't is a sense of fairness. What is good for you and your self-absorbed, egotistical, pompous geese is also good for the skilled ganders with children and full-time jobs and bills to pay. Maybe if you got out of your mom's basement more than once a year, you'd understand there is more in this world than just you.

One day, I hope you meet a casual player in real life and tell him exactly what you think about him. That way he can knock your teeth so far down your throat it takes you half your lifetime to cough them all back up. Get over yourself, prick. Last I checked, 10,999,999+ > you.

I think this is sort of where we need to bridge the gap between the two sides and stop arguments like these, arguments that actually matter and have correct points on both sides (so we can count anything Nez said out of here). It is absolutely true that good players with less amounts of time or resources should be able to play and beat content in the game without it requiring heavy setup. 10 mans and new raid composition changes will help this severely. The fact is in Classic and TBC, the way the game was designed made it so, yes, casuals were unable to do end-game raids before 3.0 nerfed them into oblivion.

I'm not saying that's the way it is supposed to be, I'm just saying the large time investment devoted to learning that content because of the heavy raid stacking and consumable BS that plagued it prevented casuals from experiencing it with very, very few exceptions.

In Wrath, casuals should be able to experience this content if they are adequate players with the sweeping alterations, especially in the 10-man format. Mind you these are allegedly not "easier" than the 25-man version but "easier to prep for," which remains to be seen for non-entry raids.

Another fact, however, is that casuals should not expect to get bosses down at the same rate as hardcore raiders do. Additionally, if there is a particular boss that is causing major issues that is universally considered well tuned by both factions and a casual guild doesn't have the time to get over the hill, they need to start investing more time before crying foul about how it is too hard. But otherwise, I am in full agreement that good players with good gear with less time should still have the ability to get shit done.

[choggy]

Makes me sad.

Sunwell was the greatest instance in TBC, closely followed by Serpentshrine Caverns.

funny u just listed the 2 most boring instances in tbc imo with the exception of the kiljayden fight the rest of the instance aside from being dificult was boring.

ssc was like heroic UB with balls :-X and bored me to tears

bring back the 40 mans with BWL and talk about a fun instance

meh from what ive seen in wrath the instances both raid and normal/heroic are alot more fun so here's hoping they continue to be

[pestillence]

Casual = less time played 'Nuff said. Simple theory. How many people have you ever come in contact with? How many of them were idiots? How many would you say had common sense? Now take that percentage and reapply it. Find 10 people to raid with. Find 25 people to raid with. The idiot percentage clearly proves that 25 mans will be harder. ;D

[Ceddie]

*sigh* All that happens now is that epics are what blues used to be and legendaries are what epics used to be.

What makes it heroic if it's not hard? This is like somebody saying that they're happy that Mortal Combat made it so that you can kill all your enemies in 2 hits because fighting Goro took way too long and was way too hard.

It's okay to be a casual player, but when games start to cater to them the content itself is made easy. Why don't we all start playing Hello Kitty because that's where the difficulty level is heading.

dis is old man kk happened in tbc lul k

[Fenixdown]

In Wrath, casuals should be able to experience this content if they are adequate players with the sweeping alterations, especially in the 10-man format. Mind you these are allegedly not "easier" than the 25-man version but "easier to prep for," which remains to be seen for non-entry raids.

Another fact, however, is that casuals should not expect to get bosses down at the same rate as hardcore raiders do. Additionally, if there is a particular boss that is causing major issues that is universally considered well tuned by both factions and a casual guild doesn't have the time to get over the hill, they need to start investing more time before crying foul about how it is too hard. But otherwise, I am in full agreement that good players with good gear with less time should still have the ability to get shit done.

THIS I agree with. And I doubt there will be any issues. I know the top raiding guilds on my server are 90% likely going to be our server firsts in the expansion. One of the other top 3 guilds might jump ahead of them. It's shifted from vanilla to BC on my server, so who knows in the end. But the currently 61st-fastest progressed guild isn't going to be the server first, simply because it's players likely will not have the increased time spent leveling, and thus will get into raids later. I think the "hardcore" players forget this part. Casual players will be 80 after you, anyway. However, they should still get to enjoy the game every bit as much as you do. That boundary is being lifted, and 75% of the player base is happy with this change. At least.

It's just a game, everyone. If 11 million people pay to play it, then shouldn't 11 million people have the same chances to do the same things? That's called equal opportunity. Now, if player X is a scrub who doesn't know his face from his keyboard and barely does more dps than the tank? THAT guy should not be allowed to raid. It doesn't matter if he logs on 13 hours a week or 300. Noobs =/= casual players. Let's all learn this now.

[Aknot]

THIS I agree with. And I doubt there will be any issues. I know the top raiding guilds on my server are 90% likely going to be our server firsts in the expansion. One of the other top 3 guilds might jump ahead of them. It's shifted from vanilla to BC on my server, so who knows in the end. But the currently 61st-fastest progressed guild isn't going to be the server first, simply because it's players likely will not have the increased time spent leveling, and thus will get into raids later. I think the "hardcore" players forget this part. Casual players will be 80 after you, anyway. However, they should still get to enjoy the game every bit as much as you do. That boundary is being lifted, and 75% of the player base is happy with this change. At least.

It's just a game, everyone. If 11 million people pay to play it, then shouldn't 11 million people have the same chances to do the same things? That's called equal opportunity. Now, if player X is a scrub who doesn't know his face from his keyboard and barely does more dps than the tank? THAT guy should not be allowed to raid. It doesn't matter if he logs on 13 hours a week or 300. Noobs =/= casual players. Let's all learn this now.

I agree with you on "some" things however the "I pay the same amount card" I disagree with. That is like saying I pay to bowl I should be able to win every game I play. You pay for the "enjoyment" of the game. You dont pay to raid, PvP, get fat loots, etc unless that is your enjoyment. Then you get what you pay for.

If you pay to be super elite in PvP you should be required to put some effort into it. Just like raiding "hard" instances.

I don't dislike HCRs I dislike some of their pompous attitudes (which the casuals are seeming to get). I wish I had the time and inclination to do what they do, however it is not important to me. I could if I wanted to.

As for "seeing" the content.... That is the reason I enjoy the nerfs. Hey give those HCRs something they can sink their teeth into for "x" time. Then after it appears they are done/stuck apply a nerf here or there. If they (HCRs) were going to do it they would have done it.

Heroics give the "feel" of accomplishing something as a casual. It is harder and requires a little more thought then just storming through a regular. And you are rewarded as such. Here is hoping the 10/25 thing is the same.

[Proffessor]

ITS A GAME. ???

Holy hell people, get freaking over it. There are harder games out there, feel free to play them.

All you high horse 'raid' folks out there, YOU ARE IN THE MINORITY. Deal with it, and go play Eve if you want 'hard' gameplay.

OH MY GOD!! THAT GUY HAS THE SAME ARMORS AS ME!!! THIS GAME IS TO EASY NOW!!!


please..

[Slirith]

in b4 shitstorm of people complaining about blizzard catering too much to casuals.

let the "hardcore" nubs complain...not like the game is 90% casual anyways...oh wait