Bubble + Avenging Wrath idea

[FoodofDraka]

To fix the bubble + Avenging Wraith problem, make the bubble have a 12 second debuff, and make the bubble dispell Avenging Wraith.

Y/N?

[Lamnent]

I'm pretty okay with this idea, they should have to choose which to use in an arena match;

A ton of survivability and a 2nd life or 20% more damage for 15 seconds.

[False God]

I still stand by the idea of a talented bubble, or talented Wrath

[antidan]

I'm pretty okay with this idea, they should have to choose which to use in an arena match;

A ton of survivability and a 2nd life or 20% more damage for 15 seconds.

Cus, like, holy paladins don't exist amirite?

Wings + Bubble healing is Holy's only new gimmick really, taking it away is ridiculous.

[Nizjub]

yeah idont see the problem either;

Debuff- "Holy Surge: The paladin is filled to brim with holy magic, and unable to perform Divine Shield, Divine Protection or Avenging Wrath while one of the three is active"

I say active because you could make it so if u right clicked off the buff, u would also lose the debuff and be able to use the alternating ability immediatly.

[False God]

Cus, like, holy paladins don't exist amirite?

Wings + Bubble healing is Holy's only new gimmick really, taking it away is ridiculous.

Why would you be dpsing if your holy????? GO GO MT HEALER DPS

[R0my312]

Why would you be dpsing if your holy????? GO GO MT HEALER DPS

AW also increased HEALING done by 20% now, so i totaly understand why our Holy bretheren are pissed off as well, not just ret and prot...sooo yeah, as for the fix, definately like the idea of having a debuff on while you have one of the three abilities on( AW, DS, HoP), that doesnt let you use another..i guess =/

[False God]

AW also increased HEALING done by 20% now, so i totaly understand why our Holy bretheren are pissed off as well, not just ret and prot...sooo yeah, as for the fix, definately like the idea of having a debuff on while you have one of the three abilities on( AW, DS, HoP), that doesnt let you use another..i guess =/

The issue was never with Holy though, it was with Ret and bubble/AW.

[druruz]

Just make them exclusive, like auras. Or same-element totems. In this case, same-awesomeness.

Not that hard.

[Tasttey]

The issue was never with Holy though, it was with Ret and bubble/AW.

So the answer would be fairly simple, take one of the talents around the 5th or 6th tier in both Holy and Prot and have it remove Forebearance from AW. That way its deep enough that Ret can't pick it up without sacrificing DS, but Holy and Prot don't have to get gimped anymore by the Ret nerfs.

[Aeorred]

So the answer would be fairly simple, take one of the talents around the 5th or 6th tier in both Holy and Prot and have it remove Forebearance from AW. That way its deep enough that Ret can't pick it up without sacrificing DS, but Holy and Prot don't have to get gimped anymore by the Ret nerfs.

Still screws over ret far too much. The nerf was basically to avoid bubble + AW at the same time. This change still limits ret from using AW period, since not being able to bubble for two minutes means lolret. The only solution is a hybrid of what they did for trinkets and a mage popping icy veins when power infusion is on them.

Using a trinket evokes a cooldown on the other for the length of the duration and a mage with Power Infusion can overwrite it with Icy Veins or Arcane Power. So simply, if AW is used first, bubbling will remove it. If bubble is used first, they can't use AW until bubble is dispelled/ends.

The logic and methods are already in place for two mechanics, applying them to two spells would take very little effort. But instead they knee-jerked this one.

[Tasttey]

Using a trinket evokes a cooldown on the other for the length of the duration and a mage with Power Infusion can overwrite it with Icy Veins or Arcane Power. So simply, if AW is used first, bubbling will remove it. If bubble is used first, they can't use AW until bubble is dispelled/ends.

But that removes the ability for Holy to Bubble+AW+Heal. Which is what the incoming change will disallow. Prot and Holy have already suffered some serious unnecessary nerfs because of Ret's "bursty" dps style, we're trying to avoid that again.

[Evereghalo]

yea, a change needs to be made,

I cant pop wings for threat when it comes up because now I risk not being able to shield wall, or DS out of a debuff or fear.

I am the point where they just screw ret overe and leave it a leveling spec. Because its effecting prot and holy.

[Aeorred]

But that removes the ability for Holy to Bubble+AW+Heal. Which is what the incoming change will disallow. Prot and Holy have already suffered some serious unnecessary nerfs because of Ret's "bursty" dps style, we're trying to avoid that again.

Honestly, it shouldn't work for you either. Prot won't be affected if you implement my suggestion. The only time they bubble is to run out of an instance or transfer a boss to another tank (Bloodboil for example). They use wings in the beginning of a fight to let DPS go all out right away. So using both means you want to give aggro to another tank but you also want to be above them in threat until your bubble wears off... so they aren't going to be bubbling and using wings unless they're fucking retarded, so they don't have to worry about it.

If you're holy and you think you deserve that, you're as bad as the ret paladins who were saying they weren't overpowered. Being immune to everything but a mass dispel AND having +20% extra healing? Bubble is already useful enough alone, as is wings. You don't need both. Hell, you didn't benefit from wings at all before. So to this I say: QQ more.

[antidan]

Honestly, it shouldn't work for you either. Prot won't be affected if you implement my suggestion. The only time they bubble is to run out of an instance or transfer a boss to another tank (Bloodboil for example). They use wings in the beginning of a fight to let DPS go all out right away. So using both means you want to give aggro to another tank but you also want to be above them in threat until your bubble wears off... so they aren't going to be bubbling and using wings unless they're fucking retarded, so they don't have to worry about it.

If you're holy and you think you deserve that, you're as bad as the ret paladins who were saying they weren't overpowered. Being immune to everything but a mass dispel AND having +20% extra healing? Bubble is already useful enough alone, as is wings. You don't need both. Hell, you didn't benefit from wings at all before. So to this I say: QQ more.

Well, actually holy paladin healing is pretty horrid, so you should not worry about this.

Bubble+ wings isn't even good in arenas as ret, so I see no reason to nerf it. Blizzard is nerfing ret because of non-arena pvp and then wondering why they suck in arena pvp. /facepalm

[Aeorred]

Well, actually holy paladin healing is pretty horrid, so you should not worry about this.

Bubble+ wings isn't even good in arenas as ret, so I see no reason to nerf it. Blizzard is nerfing ret because of non-arena pvp and then wondering why they suck in arena pvp. /facepalm

It's not absolutely terrible. Just boring. We're still the best single target, which means we're not as good at AoE healing. If you follow the long line of Paladin classes in games, none have had an AOE Heal off the top of my head. Blizzard is trying to keep us true to our roots, for better or for worse. They do that for most classes really, but paladins have always had the most strict lore from what I've seen.

[Tengill]

Just make it so u get 50% less dmg during the bubble or something, the easiest way to do it

[Tasttey]

Honestly, it shouldn't work for you either. Prot won't be affected if you implement my suggestion. The only time they bubble is to run out of an instance or transfer a boss to another tank (Bloodboil for example).

Divine Protection aka Pally Shield Wall, is also restricted by Forebearance.

[xourico]

this is will be wat they will do or something arround that ideia, If u read the blue post correctly u see they "will work arround with forbearance" and stuff, they didnt said they will give AW a 3 min forbearance...

dunno why all the QQ...

being able to do max damage + be immune to any enemy response doesnt make sense in pvp scenarios

[Admuntour]

I am all for making bubble and avenging wrath mutually exclusive, but not with forberance.
The change that made AW not cause forberance was one of the best in terms of PVE, I could go all out on a boss for once and not have to fear the consequences, just like every other DPS class.
Adding forberance back to AW would be stupid as hell, no matter how low the duration on the debuff.
It could be solved really easily by making a new debuff, once you use aveging wrath or bubble you can't gain the effect of the other, but once dispelled the debuff is gone too.