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  1. #1

    new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    im currently using a /yawn MF+SF to infinity dps rotation . is new eclipse talents worth speccing for? and what would the optimal dps rotation would be then?

  2. #2

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    Quote Originally Posted by saraswati
    im currently using a /yawn MF+SF to infinity dps rotation . is new eclipse talents worth speccing for? and what would the optimal dps rotation would be then?
    The /yawn warlock imitation spam is going to end this reset.

    The new Eclipse is looking to be kinda mandatory for max dps.

    Don't really know the best rotation atm and don't care yet. Still got some time to experiment......

  3. #3

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    im not gona take thorns nor eclipse nor frenzy on my build. All others maxed out on Balance and then spend the last 10 point prolly somewhere else shall see...

  4. #4

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spots
    The /yawn warlock imitation spam is going to end this reset.

    The new Eclipse is looking to be kinda mandatory for max dps.

    Don't really know the best rotation atm and don't care yet. Still got some time to experiment......
    I'd figure

    Assuming Glyph of Starfire.

    MF > IS > SFx3 or untill eclipse > Wrath spam > Refresh MF/IS > SFx3 or until eclipse > Wrath spam.

    Well, that's assuming both procs share the same cooldown, I've yet to have seem both eclipses up at the same time.

    I figure using SF at least 3 times for max MF and then wrath spam with eclipse up would yield the least bursty but highest, but also least mana efficient dps.

    Considering that wrath costs a lot more mana per damage then starfire, but gains a flat damage increase, rather then a chance to crit(RNG) it seems most logical.


    That, however, is just speculation, I haven't been able to try it cause I wasn't in beta.

  5. #5
    High Overlord
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    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    I realy like your idea... never saw Eclipse to be also used in this way. In stead of spamming Starfire (and use wrath when Eclipse procs).

    The problem will be the cooldown of Eclipse. The ideal rotation seems to be around 20sec (or well, 21 sec, duration of MF with 3 procs from glyph).

    The only thing i would change in your rotation is do the IS after the SFx3 (or more)... else Wrath wont benefit from the Improved IS you prolly take as talent.

    There are 2 rotations that i think im gonna try, the 2nd needing Eclipse as talent:

    Moonfire > Starfire
    The basic rotation, nerfed with the change on Starfire glyph. Ofcourse if you got Eclipse, cast Wrath in between.

    I just wrote some crap down, with durations etc... not counting procs on crits. This seems like a possible good rotation with Eclipse (includes the SF glyph, Nature's Splendor):
    Moonfire > Starfire x3 > IS > Wrath x2 > Starfire x3 > IS > Wrath x2

    EDIT:
    I didnt have much time, did some fast counting on dps per cycle, without Eclipse...

    Damage done per rotation (24 sec, 33% crit):

    MF + 9xSF = 5.000 + 40.000 = 45.000 dmg (almost 2k dps)
    MF + 6xSF + 2xIS + 4xWrath = 5.000 + 25.000 + 5.000 + 9.000 = 44.000 (around 1.9k dps)

    This is without the Eclipse effect, unbuffed, etc... with it, you get 240-1100 extra in a cycle. This makes them about equal... Seems not worth it to me yet, but perhaps there is a better rotation.

  6. #6

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    I've always been against the old eclipse but now I actually want to try it out with the upgrade. The onlyl problem I have now is I can't decide whether or not to put a talent in natures splendor so I have more time for my Starfire Glyph to proc after I'm casting all those Wraths between Starfires.


  7. #7

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    IMO... MF-> INFINITE SF isn't the best rotation...why? Idol of the Unseen Moon... this little doodad igives MF a very frequent change to increase spell power by 153.
    My rotation even with the starfire glyph has been MF (ideally get the buff)-->starfire x3/4 -->MF (ideally get the buff) and really... that Idol procs quite often.

    As far as Eclipse should you choose to test it out... it should be MF> Starfire(til crit)>IS>Wrath (til Eclipse expires)> repeat. only downside to this is the whole mana issue... will spamming wrath drain all ur mana?

  8. #8

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    Quote Originally Posted by junirel
    IMO... MF-> INFINITE SF isn't the best rotation...why? Idol of the Unseen Moon... this little doodad igives MF a very frequent change to increase spell power by 153.
    My rotation even with the starfire glyph has been MF (ideally get the buff)-->starfire x3/4 -->MF (ideally get the buff) and really... that Idol procs quite often.

    As far as Eclipse should you choose to test it out... it should be MF> Starfire(til crit)>IS>Wrath (til Eclipse expires)> repeat. only downside to this is the whole mana issue... will spamming wrath drain all ur mana?
    You should have switched to the Ivory Idol of the Moongoddess for MF > INFINITE SF so you wouln't have to waste as much mana and dps recasting moonfire to get the buff from Idol of the Unseen Moon.

    I do like you idea for the cast cycle; however if the eclipse proc cycle isn't mana efficient I'll probably go back to MF > INFINITE SF

  9. #9

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    IMO... MF-> INFINITE SF isn't the best rotation...why? Idol of the Unseen Moon... this little doodad igives MF a very frequent change to increase spell power by 153.
    My rotation even with the starfire glyph has been MF (ideally get the buff)-->starfire x3/4 -->MF (ideally get the buff) and really... that Idol procs quite often.

    As far as Eclipse should you choose to test it out... it should be MF> Starfire(til crit)>IS>Wrath (til Eclipse expires)> repeat. only downside to this is the whole mana issue... will spamming wrath drain all ur mana?
    I actually saw more DPS from the Ivory Idol of the Moon goddess or even the Idol that increases Moonkin Aura crit. I used Wrath (to put up E&M) -> Hex Shrunken Head -> MF _> SF x Infinity. The thing that was making that so good was that Blizz never changed DoT's like they did HoT's. So the MF retained the damage from Hex Shrunken Head even after the buff dropped. So I had ticks of 780 that lasted the entire duration of MF instead of 680.

    With the change to the SF glyph I'll be using a similar rotation, but make sure to refresh MF whenever my HsH is up. I'm not a big fan of eclipse. I don't like to use wrath for bosses unless there is a lot of movement and I need to rip a quick spell.
    Quote Originally Posted by sleepinglamia
    Also another reason being a female is awesome. No epeens Ah not to be controlled by my own genitalia! :O
    Quote Originally Posted by Marath
    This is a good point... do you have e-bajango or e-boobie competitions in the same way?

    I like that word... e-bajango

  10. #10

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    I saw some math somewhere on the forums..might have been the beta forums. But from what I saw it looked like:

    MF+IS > Wrath (until Eclipse procs [starfire buff]) > Spam Starfire > refresh IS+MF > SF until Eclipse coolsdown > Wrath until Eclipse procs..etc

    Basically you're doing the "MF+IS > Starfire spam" rotation but throwing in wrath spams only until you get eclipse to proc for the starfire buff. Then MF+IS > Starfire for another 40 seconds until Eclipse coolsdown....then back to wrath spam until you get Eclipse to proc again for starfire buffage.

  11. #11

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    I am having a problem with cast rotations with the eclipse build everyone is showing. I currently use the MF>SF spam but I can't see the point in throwing in a IS when your SF eclipse procs. I'm not a theroycrafter and I don't pretend to be one, I just wouldn't mind some help with this. Let me show you what I mean...
    IS has a 12 sec dot so...
    12sec - 1.5sec GCD = 10.5 sec.
    10.5sec - 1.5sec Wrath = 9sec.
    At 9 seconds you just now getting your first hit in with it to do dmg. Even if your wrath does 2500dmg non-crit, 3% of that is 75dmg, so if you can get 6 wraths out in 9 sec (9/1.5) then the total extra dmg would be AROUND 525 extra dmg through IS. Now when you add in IS dot with the 525 extra dmg, you will have around a 2500-3000 12sec dmg spell. The problem that keeps hitting me here is if it is only doing a max of 3000 dmg in 12 sec, why not take your inital 1.5sec GCD from casting IS and put that in a Wrath instead? Since the wrath eclipse now increases its dmg by 20%, at 2500dmg non-crit it would be doing 3000ish. So, getting to the end of my post here, wouldn't it save time and be more effective to take the 4 points you spent in IS on your talent tree and put then into Genesis (increases periodic dmg done by 1/2/3/4/5%)? Since Genesis would effect your Moonfire, it seems as though it would do more to me.
    If anyone spots an error in the math or anything, PLEASE tell me so that I can correct it. I'm not trying to be smart, I'm just trying to be a useful Thunder Chicken by putting out as much dmg as I can

  12. #12

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribu
    im not gona take thorns nor eclipse nor frenzy on my build. All others maxed out on Balance and then spend the last 10 point prolly somewhere else shall see...
    You want either 0 points in Resto or 12-16. Anything in between 0 and 12 does absolutely nothing for you.

  13. #13

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    Soooo... is IS worth taking or no?

  14. #14

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardrel
    Soooo... is IS worth taking or no?
    to answer your question, IS is worth it if you are wrath spamming becuse of the impd dmg you will get from it if you put points in impd IS

    i personaly have points in both genesis and impd IS and it shows in raid,(not to mention earth and moon) i now out dps a moonkin that used to out dps me because of her gear

  15. #15

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    Genesis?
    This talent really isn't worth taking ever as a balance druid.
    5% more damage for just our 2 dots for 5 points, compare it to any other (viable) talent in the tree and you'll notice it's inferior.

    Just remember that IS is a damage loss. You either use it to buff wrath or to get the debuff (or both), not as a dps spell really.


    Back to the point now.
    Yes it looks like eclipse will be worthwhile if you watch the proc carefully and read theorycrafting on elitistjerks before starting to raid at lvl 80 and of course gear accordingly.

    The rotation will make the difference between awesome and crap dps though. For example the timing of moonfire/IS could make a huge difference.

  16. #16

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dropsdruid
    get 13 points for master ShapeShjfter and Omen instead! :O
    Point was i dont think the build over the points i have in use ATM after that i might take something off to get something else....

  17. #17

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    i DO NOT think the eclipse buff for 30% starfire crit is working. I have a 64% chance to crit when the eclipse procs. I tested this on 20 mobs. Crit rating comes out to about 24% which happens to be my current crit rating without eclipse.

  18. #18

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    According to Murmurs, the best rotation will be:

    Moonfire > Starfire until Eclipse procs (remembering to keep casting your last Starfire in the chain) > Wrath until eclipse falls

    Recast Moonfire and spam Starfire until Moonfire drops, then begin again.

    Insect Swarm is not worth casting - the duration is just too wonky to fit into any rotations.

  19. #19

    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talrey
    According to Murmurs, the best rotation will be:

    Moonfire > Starfire until Eclipse procs (remembering to keep casting your last Starfire in the chain) > Wrath until eclipse falls

    Recast Moonfire and spam Starfire until Moonfire drops, then begin again.

    Insect Swarm is not worth casting - the duration is just too wonky to fit into any rotations.
    I expected that, when I tried fitting IS in my rotation(pre 3.0.3) my dps was simply lower then without.

    The rotation that yielded most dps(using eclipse) was the one stated in your post.
    (MF > SF untill eclipse procs > wrath spam, repeat)

    Obviously, in that patch MF -> Starfire to infinite did cause most dps out of all rotations when ignoring eclipse completely, just mentioning that before people come and say that was the best rotation.


    I'm gonna play some more with eclipse later when the european servers are up.

  20. #20
    High Overlord
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    Re: new eclipse worth taking for a pve moonkin?

    Tested several rotations today, with Eclipse as talent.

    MF > SF (i.e. without Eclipse)
    around 1850 dps

    MF > SF > Wrath (i.e. with Eclipse)
    around 2050 dps

    MF > SF > IS > Wrath (i.e. with Eclipse)
    around 1950 dps

    Should run a simulator to be 100% accurate with numbers... seems 100dps different between each rotation. And Eclipse actualy seems to be worth it. Though imo the biggest advantage is that it makes the balance spec less boring, in stead of just spamming Starfire and keep MF up.

    Also did some testing with IS>Wrath>(MF)>SF... but this was just crap, since Eclipse requires crits and it seems SF crits a lot more with buffs (and T6 bonus ofc).

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