Seal of Hope - Possible Fix to lolret?

[Aeorred]

Seal of Hope
Fills the Paladin with holy power, causing attacks to apply Divine Hope, which slows movement speed by 15% for 8 sec. Divine Hope can stack up to 3 (4)times. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Lasts 2 min.

Unleashing this Seal's energy will bind the enemy in prayer, immobilizing and interrupting any spell being cast for 1 second, increased by 1 second for each application of Divine Hope. In addition it will deal [ 12% of AP + 18% of Spell Power + 1 ] Holy damage to an enemy, increased by 10% for each application of Divine Hope on the target.

Firstly, 45% slow when fully applied. If that's not enough, change each application to 20%, but that seems a bit to high honestly, which is why I suggested 45% max.

Secondly judging is like feral charge, but it does damage because it's a 10 yard range ability on an 8 second CD. Would be also subject to diminishing returns of course. Would do, assuming 3k AP + 900 SD, 522-783 damage non-crit at level 80. Very bloody little.

Now before you call out ZOMG OP, realize that the paladin is doing 20-30% less damage to you while meleeing you because he doesn't have a seal that does damage, in addition, judgement is still only 10 yards AND it will also deal marginal damage. So essentially, a paladin is still the king of, get within ten yards of me and you're getting hit by something bad, but in this case it's not burst damage being done.

Yes, paladins can change seals to dish out damage after you're slowed/silenced/rooted but that comes at the cost of mana, and quite a bit really. Changing seals is equivalent to shapeshifting for a feral druid. It's doable, but if you want to do anything else, it really adds up quick. Currently, 14% base mana at 80 is (if I recall correctly, Paladin base mana is 4394 at 80, correct me if I'm wrong) 659. Assuming we have 7k in arena, that's a little less than 1/10th of our mana.

You'd also be wrong to say that judging gives all that back, since judgements cost 4.5% (talented) base themselves. So on top of your normal rotation (16.4% base mana when talented and glyphed), changing seals really hurts a Pally's mana. Changing seals becomes an important decision, to the point of, should I burn my mana to silence/root the target or hope I catch him so I can throw out a few heals instead?

TL;DR: Fixes what we're lacking. Numbers would need to be played with for balance. I've played all but druid at 70 so I'd like to say I'm not *too* biased in my numbers. Might need to put it in the ret tree so holy paladins can't abuse the shit out of it, but honestly they need something offensive anyway. This could answer their plea.

[Edit for speeling misteaks.]

[Offhand]

Lolret is no more. OP ret has been nerfed back into kinda OP ret.

[Kavalir]

A 45% movement snare with a 1 second stun every 8 seconds?


How is this not completely OP?

[Offhand]

A 45% movement snare with a 1 second stun every 8 seconds?


How is this not completely OP?

99.9% of great suggestions for class abilities would be completely OP, ruin the game for everyone else, and make a class truly unstoppable. That's why they aren't implemented and that's why people who post these threads don't work for Blizzard.

[odarbi]

A 45% movement snare with a 1 second stun every 8 seconds?

Oh, if you read, it's a 1 second/charge stun, so it'd actually be a 4 second stun when 4 stacked.

I hate playing my pally and even I can say this is retarded. Slow, Yeah, okay, that's a neat idea. Stun effect when judged? Hah, you've gotta be fucking joking. Welcome to "stack seal of hope, HoJ, judge when HOJ is up".

[sunny_lifton]

I would personally like to see the 11th point in prot be something like the death knights death grip (or whatever it is, the ability that pulls mobs/players to them).

It would end up being a talent prot could take to help them get fleeing mobs. But it also solves the distance closing problem of ret pallys. Call it something like Hand of Light. Give it a minute cooldown.

[Tigercat]

99.9% of great suggestions for class abilities would be completely OP, ruin the game for everyone else, and make a class truly unstoppable. That's why they aren't implemented and that's why people who post these threads don't work for Blizzard.

Indeed.

[Avermra]

The cries of this ret nerf is bigger than 2.1 Feral Druid and it's not even as severe as that one. Good ret paladins are still topping damage meters in PvE, and good ret paladins are still bursting people down in pvp. I know people are inclined to defend their classes, but damn this is probably the worst offender.

edit: I'm not going to defend assassination rogues, frost mages, or maybe balance druids right now, but once they get the same thing I wonder if they'll cry nearly as much as lolret. Reason most people say lolret isn't about their damage or pvp, but rather the average level of your everyday players that play this spec.

[odarbi]

I would personally like to see the 11th point in prot be something like the death knights death grip (or whatever it is, the ability that pulls mobs/players to them).

It would end up being a talent prot could take to help them get fleeing mobs. But it also solves the distance closing problem of ret pallys. Call it something like Hand of Light. Give it a minute cooldown.

That actually does seem like a viable idea, but unfortunately it likely won't be implimented. Blizz is huge on having classes be different in their own ways.

Since pallies main focus is on Seals/judgements though... why not use the Seal of Hope(minus the stun on judging), or add a slow effect to Seal of Righteousness via talent? Could be useful for prot pallies to pick up, and kinda fun for the ret pallies out there.

[Xavi]

Rouges/warriors all have horrid snares like that, rogues and warriors (and hunters ofc), have MS aswell, when will Rets get it into their head that MS and perma snares for all isnt fun for any clothie/caster class in the game, ret are poweerful enough and if you dont believe it will work at 80, how the fuck do you know? beta testers say its more than fine.

So just constantly asking for what the other melee have will end up with wow having "MELEE VS CASTER WARZ ". Enjoy your uniqueness, if you dont want to be known as warrior clones, dont ask for what skills they have and if you want them soooooo much... roll a warrior.

[asakuj]

You were powerful for some time. Blizz doesnt repeat mistakes (for pala).

[Ufalah]

Rouges/warriors all have horrid snares like that, rogues and warriors (and hunters ofc), have MS aswell, when will Rets get it into their head that MS and perma snares for all isnt fun for any clothie/caster class in the game, ret are poweerful enough and if you dont believe it will work at 80, how the fuck do you know? beta testers say its more than fine.

So just constantly asking for what the other melee have will end up with wow having "MELEE VS CASTER WARZ ". Enjoy your uniqueness, if you dont want to be known as warrior clones, dont ask for what skills they have and if you want them soooooo much... roll a warrior.

Those good ol' beta testers and the employees @ Blizz who handle their reports. They have yet to fail us or disappoint us eh?

You were powerful for some time. Blizz doesnt repeat mistakes (for pala).

Some time? 24 hours? 2 weeks? 2 weeks of about 4 years of game time. Pardon me if I don't get too excited. Sure, we are better off post-3.0 nerf than we were pre-3.0 but we still are not respectably even with other classes. Our burst is nerfed and we get nothing with which to pressure healers and precious little to close with anyone. CAT DROODS got a closer and I didn't see anyone yell "bloody hell that is just a warrior ability WTF".

[vlight]

3/5 melee classes have interrupts?

...which one doesn't?

edit: oh wait you meant paladins don't didn't you.. go read your HoJ description and get back to me.

talented/glyphed you've got a 3 second interrupt on a 30 second cooldown, with a secondary effect of a 7 second stun.

while i agree interrupts are a key part of pvp, you've got one, you catch that holy paladin healing and hammer him, he's not bubbling out of it to keep healing.. you've just got to start using hammers smart, similar to mages using counterspell to actually counter a spell, instead of just a silence.

[Punisherx]

Seal of Hope
0 Mana,No CD, Instant

Delete's your paladin character,automatic re-rolling rouge.

[Offhand]

Ret Paladins, Feral Druids.

At least last I checked Feral doesn't have a conventional interrupt.

HoJ becomes an interrupt on mobs immune to stun. It's not as good, but who said all talents must be equal.

[LordDamage]

Paladins aren't broken, get over it - nothing ever was broken about them, they were never underpowered (except in Classic WoW). The last patch made you utterly broken in overpowered burst, and you claimed this was all that you had to be viable. You forget you can buff, heal, bubble, provide auras, hand of freedom all sorts of things. When blizzard nerfs something that made you completely overpowered you cry to have it back and/or something new.

No.

Pestilence doesn't interrupt, Brain Freeze/Strangulate/Death Grip do.

Edit: Death Grip.

[Serai]

HoJ becomes an interrupt on mobs immune to stun. It's not as good, but who said all talents must be equal.

on that note, catform maim and bear form bash interrupt on bosses immune to stun

so ye, every melee class can interrupt

[tylinna]

What rock have you been hiding under the last month to say lolret? I knew some good rets before 3.02 that could push 1400 dps but those were few and far between and they tended to be Hyjal / BT / Sunwell geared and skilled and there weren't a ton of raiding rets (1 per progression guild). Now any ret despite having crap gear can do solid sustained damage in pvp or pve. Hell in PvP they were rocking everyone in blue gear.