how much hit should i have as a tankadin?

[Ralu]

hi

how much hit should i have as a tankadin?

[underdogba]

There isn't really a magic number that's make-or-break for getting the job done. Just take whatever naturally comes with the gear that you want to use.

I'd definitely get the Glyph of Righteous Defense though. Once that's in place, hit is a good threat stat, but not really as important as for a warrior since a good amount of tankadin threat is passive.

[Ektoplasme]

Nothing.

You should not gem or enchant for hit. It will just come with your gear. Focus on def (until capped), then dodge/parry/block/strength/stam in no particular order. Blizzard itemization is good so an epic chest from naxx will be better than a blue chest from heroic. That's simple. Just collect your gear along your progression.

[psicorp]

just skim hit off the top when you can. its not a stat to ignore of course, but you can put it on the back burner while getting more important stats like the holy trio. def/stam/strength

[Aknot]

since a good amount of tankadin threat is passive.

Please explain this. The only passive ability (im aware of could be wrong) is Holy Shield. You get hit they take damage.

Other then that its swinging, Concs, Seals, etc which all require you to be "active".

Or am I missing the definition or the way "passive" is being used?

[Ektoplasme]

No, this guy is just stuck in the TBC era. The passive threat used to be dealt by Holy Shield, Blessing of Sanctuary, Ret aura. It was a good amount of our threat.

Tankadin's threat is no longer passive in WotLK with the addition of HotR and SoR.

[underdogba]

Please explain this. The only passive ability (im aware of could be wrong) is Holy Shield. You get hit they take damage.

Other then that its swinging, Concs, Seals, etc which all require you to be "active".

Or am I missing the definition or the way "passive" is being used?

No that's exactly what I mean. The 3.0.2 changes undermine that observation slightly (for example, Holy Shield used to have hidden extra threat added in, above and beyond holy dmg/righteous fury multiplier).

Holy Shield and Retribution Aura (which you're likely going to end up having in a raid because everyone loves Ret even now with the nerfs) are a significant amount of baseline threat, just run Recount and look at the numbers they're generating.

It's true that with the addition of Hammer of the Righteous, we do have a new significant ability that is subject to hit mechanics, but on the other side:
- Only the first tick of consecrate can miss; and
- SoV stays on easier now

Hit is a nice general across-the-board threat increase, which you'll enjoy naturally as you tend to getter higher iLvl gear, but it's not as dramatic as say, for a warrior, whose threat-generating moves almost entire depend on hit, and who needs to hit to generate acceptable rage.

[wyrdone]

Tankadin's threat is no longer passive in WotLK with the addition of HotR and SoV.

There fixed that for you.

SoR sucks for threat in comparison to SoV. The only time you use SoR is if the mob is going to die within 15-20 seconds. Remember, SoV is a guaranateed chance to proc an addition to the stack. So with a fast tanking weapon, it will stack VERY fast. You also no longer need to worry about using SoR judge at the beginning to get that initial aggro, HoR does that very effectively, even if your not using frisbee at the start.

[Aknot]

No that's exactly what I mean. The 3.0.2 changes undermine that observation slightly (for example, Holy Shield used to have hidden extra threat added in, above and beyond holy dmg/righteous fury multiplier).

Holy Shield and Retribution Aura (which you're likely going to end up having in a raid because everyone loves Ret even now with the nerfs) are a significant amount of baseline threat, just run Recount and look at the numbers they're generating.

It's true that with the addition of Hammer of the Righteous, we do have a new significant ability that is subject to hit mechanics, but on the other side:
- Only the first tick of consecrate can miss; and
- SoV stays on easier now

Hit is a nice general across-the-board threat increase, which you'll enjoy naturally as you tend to getter higher iLvl gear, but it's not as dramatic as say, for a warrior, whose threat-generating moves almost entire depend on hit, and who needs to hit to generate acceptable rage.

Danke

[yiptastic]

You need hit as much as warriors need it.

all melee hits including shield of the Righteousness, SoV, Hammer of the Righteousness require hit rating to be 100% effective.

you need 5% hit , and good amount of expertise. good news is we get expertise from talents, so hit becomes the first thing to get if you can afford it.

defense stats are primary stats, obviously. You want to be 102.4% avoidance + block as a pally to be crit immune and maximize your mitigation. (102.4% includes level difference)

I would go easy on hit and expertise rating though. Those are the last two stats for me to consider, and I actually put expertise above hit rating, because expertise actually reduces the chance mob will parry your hit and instantly hit you, effectively removing spike dmg.

[yiptastic]

hit vs expertise, expertise wins.

[underdogba]

No, this guy is just stuck in the TBC era. The passive threat used to be dealt by Holy Shield, Blessing of Sanctuary, Ret aura. It was a good amount of our threat.

Tankadin's threat is no longer passive in WotLK with the addition of HotR and SoR.

With all due respect that's a very presumptuous observation.

Of course the passive components to overall threat generation have diminished somewhat in proportion to overall threat. My point is those mechanics are largely still there and still noteworthy, and even if we're going to get nitpicky, it doesn't have any impact on the conclusions on hit rating.

Please refer to the original post you're slandering and note what phrase I used: "A good amount of tankadin threat is passive".

Please note that I did not say "the majority", "almost all of", or anything like that.

Go ahead and run recount, find an elite mob of the appropriate level, and use all your cooldowns that don't involve auto-attacking, observe the baseline tps you're getting, and then come back and tell me I'm "stuck in the TBC era".

[Draco cracona]

You need hit as much as warriors need it.

all melee hits including shield of the Righteousness, SoV, Hammer of the Righteousness require hit rating to be 100% effective.

you need 5% hit , and good amount of expertise. good news is we get expertise from talents, so hit becomes the first thing to get if you can afford it.

defense stats are primary stats, obviously. You want to be 102.4% avoidance + block as a pally to be crit immune and maximize your mitigation. (102.4% includes level difference)

I would go easy on hit and expertise rating though. Those are the last two stats for me to consider, and I actually put expertise above hit rating, because expertise actually reduces the chance mob will parry your hit and instantly hit you, effectively removing spike dmg.

102.4% is crush immunity from bosses, now no longer needed, so 5.6% crit reduction from def for crit immune. I'm planning on aiming for soft hit cap (melee cap - 9%), as spellhit cap only affects judgements tbh, but this is secondary to at least soft-capping expertise (5.6%, dodge cap), and even then expertise is probably better due to parry->swing speed increase effect. HotR+white dam+SotR+AS altogether makes up a high proportion of threat, so hit/expertise aren't as bad as people are saying, although expertise might not affect SotR (unparry/dodgeable I think).

[underdogba]

You need hit as much as warriors need it.

I need to correct something I said before that probably isn't totally accurate anymore. With the changes in 3.0.2 warriors probably don't really need hit so much as before.

In TBC, there were two reasons warriors would want hit--
1) Poor threat scaling: hit was probably the only realistic way to scale up total threat, other than strictly stacking SBV, since you were largely dealing with abilities that dealt fixed amounts of bonus threat;
2) Rage starvation: in high avoidance gear, stacking hit was pretty much to only way get acceptable rage generation.

In 3.0.2/WotLK --
1) Warrior abilities scale smoothly with AP;
2) BoSanc completely takes the prospect of rage starvation off the table; if you get hit, you get rage; if you dodge/block/parry, you get rage.

So in light of that information, I'd agree -- warrior are probably in the same boat as us now with regard to hit rating, as far as overall threat mechanics are concerned.

[wyrdone]

defense stats are primary stats, obviously. You want to be 102.4% avoidance + block as a pally to be crit immune and maximize your mitigation. (102.4% includes level difference)

yip, until you learn the difference between Crit immune (490+ Def) and Crush immune (102.4% avoidance) please go back to reading and not posting.

In Wrath, Crushing blows are essentially a thing of the past, unless your tanking something 4+ lvls higher than you. (I saw 1 crushing blow in Northrend. I was lvl71, tanking a lvl75 boss in Ahnket.)

This is not to say don't gear for avoidance, just that it's not imperative to reach 102.4% anymore. All avoidance does for you now is avoid/mitigate (in the case of block) damage and generate mana/rage/runic power due to BoSanct.