Holy vs Ret

[yiptastic]

our spells scale equally with ap or spell power now, get with times man!

only problem is, he's assuming in tank gear.

holy loses out the int. he can't spam his spells because he doesn't have JotW, and holy doesn't benefit from strength from tank gear.

[psicorp]

Short sighted much? You mean to tell me a ret will have more spell power than holy? Again, if your using a 1-hander your AP (and spell power) is going down. I just can't see how a ret would generate more threat. My opinion 8)

Edit: Omg, why am I continuing this inane post. /facepalm

no you miserable prat, pally spells will benefit equally from AP as they will from spell power. for example, consecration benifits from 32% spell power and 32% ap. so while a retadin wont have the spell pwer of a healadin, he will have considerably more AP.

[Skweegee]

For non heroic 5-mans, both specs would be able to tank quite effectively. I think ret might be able to tank a little better than holy but you wouldn't be far behind as holy. IMO, just pick the spec you want and you should be just fine with either spec. Also, to those people that wrote this guy off as stupid, you seriously need stop acting like a bunch of d-bags. Even with a dual spec system, ever heard of pvp/pve specs? The person might want to use this system to get the most what they want to do in terms of healing, tanking, or dpsing. Just because they want to get the most out of their class doesn't make them stupid it makes you ignorant.

[iktankniet]

defenitly ret.

tank gear has pretty much strength as stat which is the best stat for ret also.

[Kishin]

ret would have it alot easier with building up threat with Divine Storm, Crusader Strike etc.
Holy would just consecrate, lolmelee and every 6 sec holyshock.
of course it might work, but i think ret would do better.

ret with sword & board... nice idea o.O

[Gomexus]

no you miserable prat, pally spells will benefit equally from AP as they will from spell power. for example, consecration benifits from 32% spell power and 32% ap. so while a retadin wont have the spell pwer of a healadin, he will have considerably more AP.

You are correct to some extent. Judgements actually get a bigger benefit from spell power, in terms of %'s.

Where I think you may be confusing people is that Ret and Prot have talents to manipulate their spell power. It's easy for a well geared Ret paladin to have 600+ spell power. As for Holy they get no talent to manipulate AP...no conversion talent. So their AP will basically be whatever base is (300 I think?).

So just for the sake of argument a ret can hit 2400ap unbuffed and 720sp unbuffed, whereas a Holy would have 300ap unbuffed and 1700sp unbuffed

That consecration would deal 998.4 for the Ret and 640 for the Holy.

Ret gets the best deal by far on all of our offensive spells due to increasing 1 offensive stat will increase another offensive stat indirectly. Prot gains SP from Sta but loses out on AP by doing so. Holy gains SP from Int but loses out on AP as well.

[Hatsuyuki]

been wondering this myself for a while seeing as I want to level as ret at first (seeing as it is far superiour in both damage as in downtime compared to prot) but still be my leveling group's tank.

Gonna spec ret when I get home and see how I fare in a normal and a heroic :P
Will post again after I get some results

[Welsper]

as many people before I also agree that Ret would make better tank .

But , I would like mention that well specced hunter and warlock can and did tank any normal instances ( I tanked all normals looong ago as Demonology Warlock using Voidwalker ) .

Also , In karazhan long time ago ,when we were short one tank , our Holy Paladin offtanked and did splendid .
After grabbing some aggro she just chain spammed herself with FoL and HoL - she did suceed with Valets
From what I remeber she was all the time in Holy PVP gear .

[BREWBIZZLE]

Which spec makes a better Tank in (tanking gear)?
Ret or Holy?

For tanking as a off spec.

If you mean for off tanking without respecing i would say Ret.

[psicorp]

Ret gets the best deal by far on all of our offensive spells due to increasing 1 offensive stat will increase another offensive stat indirectly. Prot gains SP from Sta but loses out on AP by doing so. Holy gains SP from Int but loses out on AP as well.

true but prot is likely to have a decent amount of AP anyways, owing to the fact strength juices up there blocks and thus sits pretty at around the third most important tanking stat

[Offhand]

Survivability: ret, if you're wearing full ret gear with a sword and shield (which you should be carrying around anyway.

Threat: holy, holy shock LOL

Most things CAN be tanked when not spec'd for it sub-70. When my paladin leveled up through Outland all those ages ago iirc my list of things tanked when ret were:
Ramps
Blood Furnace
Underbog
Sethekk Halls
Durn the Hungerer 3-manned
Ring of Blood

Didn't run very many nonheroics after that until 70. Hatebringer was a decent enough weapon.

[gobtol]

Ret paladins can be very viable tanks, depending on the difficulty of the content. I tanked and healed (at the same time) a few Black Morass runs on my ret paladin in full ret pvp gear with just 3 dps (4 players total). I was also able to take all the hurtful strikes off Gruul in PvP gear, but he dies so quick now that he never really hits that hard. Tanking normal instances with a dedicated healer is a complete joke, and I imagine the easier heroics would be very possible to do with a ret tank.