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  1. #1

    What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    I prefer high crit cuz I just like seeing big numbers....
    so at what's better crit vs haste... and is there a point where it switches off?

  2. #2

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    My spreadsheet says haste rating is better than crit, by about 30%. I don't think there's any cross over point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronalis
    in soviet russia, mods troll you!

  3. #3

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Haste is better, but don't neglect Crit. I don't know the math, unfortunately.

  4. #4

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Spell Hit till capped > Spell damage > Spell haste > Spell crit

    Thats your priority. Moonkins are not crit based casters. People think they are because of the moonkin aura, but they are not. Crits dont give us mana return or a free next spell the way it does for some other classes (ele shamans) which is why those other classes stack crit. Granted natures grace give you a 0.5 second off cast time from crits, but even with that it was still not worth it to stack crit, at least in BC. I dont see how WOTLK would change that though, so the old ways still stand I expect.

  5. #5

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Since we ARE getting mana back on crit in WotlK, crit becomes an issue when thinking about manamanagement. From a damage POV it is still the weakest stat, but since it helps your regen it becomes more and more helpfull if you have issues with your blue bar. Consider it to be a MP5 with additional damage, though I haven't seen or come up with numbers about how much crit would convert into how much MP5 considering X max-mana and Y cast rotation. So the point of viability as a serious manaregen stat is still open. But you'd probably not want to stack it for damage, in that regard DruidFTW's ranking from BC is still the deal since there has nothing happened to talents or anything that could change this by any meaningful amount. (The higher base-dmg on Wrath and SF do favor crit and haste in the same manner e.g.)

  6. #6

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Well, I'd say crit. You really could go with spamming moonfire and do just fine, why bother casting...

  7. #7

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    considering how we were called oomkins for so long, crit is more mana efficient. Crit gives reduction on our next spell cast, when we crit we can gain mana back. Our talents also make our crits hit for so much more than our flat damage. Crit has always been better than haste for moonkin unless you liked spending money on hundreds mana potions for each boss fight pre 3.0 but then again, most of you wouldn't know considering the majority of moonkins are people wearing resto gear since 3.0 was released.

  8. #8

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Quote Originally Posted by DruidFTW
    Crits dont give us mana return
    Yes they do. Shame AoE crits don't anymore though but it was rather OP.

  9. #9
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Netherlands
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    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    I dont think its possible to say one stat is far superior to another (unless your comparing int and stenght :P )
    At the end of the day you need to have a healthy balance of everything.
    Ofc you need to be hitcapped but if you have 2k spellpower and 0 critrating your dps will still be suffering.
    And if you got loads of haste but are seriously lacking the spellpower department then its bad again.

    I think Spell Hit till capped > Spell damage > Spell haste > Spell crit is save to say but dont forget to keep everything balanced.

  10. #10

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    I suggest you spend some time and read gray matters blog about oomkins.
    http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/20...r-moonkin.html

    mainly, crit is more fun to watch because big numbers in the screen are so lovely, but in reality haste simply increases dps more.


  11. #11
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ariel, Israel.
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    313

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Moonkin IS a crit-based character/spec/chicken

    You need lots of Haste for it to be effective, don't you ? So running around with 1 piece of gear with Haste won't increase your DPS by that much.
    Of course when you stack a good amount of Haste, those SF's are pretty good, so yeah

  12. #12

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Well, it is crit based if you gear for crit . Though that will mean that you have much less dps potential than possible with the itemlevel used. I did pretty well (not to say awesome) without any bothering about crit - it just came on some items that were good for other reasons mainly. And there isn't much going to change about the damage impact of crit compared to TBC. Yes, it'll make Eclipse proc earlier, but considering it's nasty mechanic and overall dps boost (assume non-static fights), these few seconds you could wait less for it per minute isn't worth thinking about.
    Crit IS the worst stat after spirit and int, unless you have problems with your mana. Then it becomes a pretty good alternative to MP5, although I could imagine that spirit will yield more dps AND regen if Intensity and impr. Aura are skilled per itemvaluepoint. That seems to be an interesting thing to calculate: Crit vs. Spirit in terms of DPS and regeneration. That'll be something for my lazy saturday

  13. #13

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbiz
    Moonkin IS a crit-based character/spec/chicken
    No, it really isn't.

    The main problem with crit is that it's a very expensive stat to get on gear, mostly because of the rating conversion to %. Spell power and Haste are cheaper to acquire, thus making them "better".

    It's not a bad stat to get, it's just that most everything else is better.

  14. #14

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Like Medium9 said - Crit is only better if your mana is suffering. Otherwise, Haste all the way.

  15. #15

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    www.maxdps.com You can go check there
    If in doubt afk out

    01011001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01110011 01110101 01100011 01101011

  16. #16

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cebeaj
    www.maxdps.com You can go check there
    No you can't. Moonkin aren't updated for Wrath yet, it seems.

  17. #17

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmizzle
    Well, I'd say crit. You really could go with spamming moonfire and do just fine, why bother casting...
    Haste lowers the GCD so haste would still help someone who wanted to go around spamming moonfire :P

  18. #18

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Well... I have a good question then:

    I have a mix of ZA/SSC/PVP/Heroics gear that lets me do 1400-1600 dps in 5/10 mans. Nothing to write home about. I really enjoy playing oomkin now and have been doing well compared to my teammates.

    Since the scourge invasion was happening I decided to get a small haste set with things I could get off of there. I think this demonstrates a few notions. The scourge invasion things were ilevel 115 I believe and the stat allocation was heavy in Haste. I took about a 100 point, 4% crit hit to go to my "haste set" but gained about 210 haste (I socketed a few things and got a new weapon etc...)

    Obviously my dps is going to go down slightly because I'm using lower ilvl items, but it was actually harder to use and it went down significantly more than I thought it would. The lack of the crits meant that I wasn't proc'ing eclipse and nature's as much and therefore my dps was lower.

    I consistently put up 100-175 more dps by going back to my other gear (on 70 target dummies).

    I think it speaks to what kind of gear you can get and what you are sacrificing by going to Haste vs Crit vs Spell Power.

    Usually the higher the ilvl the better the item, but haste gets better the more you have of it. Having .75 second Wraths was awesome, but it was harder to manage and going to lesser gear doesn't help.

    In the end, go with the gear that has the highest stat allocation towards what you need, then go for haste. I have started to socket for haste and spell damage and I like the way it works, even though most of my gear has crit and not haste.

  19. #19

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Point for point, haste is better than crit at every reasonable level of gear, no matter how much of either you have at the time. However, gear with both haste and crit is better than gear with just one or the other due to itemization costs. This type of gear is also difficult to acquire outside of Sunwell, and prior to that point, pieces with crit have superior itemization to their closest haste counterparts. But a point of haste rating will increase your dps by more than a point of crit rating, the real decision comes down to which one your mana pool can support. At level 80 we will be able to spec into all our major sources of mana regeneration and efficiency without sacrificing damage talents, so haste would likely be the better choice when it comes to gemming decisions, but when it comes to choosing between different pieces of gear it is necessary to look at the specific stats on each item, keeping in mind that a balance of stats will almost always increase your dps the most.

    And being hit capped is still the most important priority and the cheapest way to increase your damage; nothing has changed about that. After being hit capped, the best result is usually achieved by stacking runed stones until you reach a certain threshold of spellpower and reckless stones after that. There are spreadsheets that will tell you exactly what stat will benefit you the most, but a decent rule of thumb might be that it's not worth worrying about gemming for haste until you are at the point where you are socketing epic gems into all your gear.

  20. #20

    Re: What's better for moonkin? Crit or Haste?

    Pre 3.0 spell hit> spell damage> spell haste > spell crit. If I remember correctly, once hit capped, stacking spell damage provided the best dps increase. After about 1150 spell damage combine stacking haste and spell damage. After around 1250 spell damage stacking haste yields the greatest damage (provided correct spell rotation of course)
    In my opinion the gear should make up for the mana problems itself. Stacking crit, while helping your mana regen, provides less damage than spell power and haste.
    So itemize for your gear accordingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9
    Well, it is crit based if you gear for crit . Though that will mean that you have much less dps potential than possible with the itemlevel used.

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