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  1. #1

    If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    I think that at the moment priest healing spells need to be improued a bit (I'm not talking about CoH I also agree that it needs some kind of nerf).

    Let me explain a bit with a list:

    Greater heal (rank 7) ----> 712 mana cost, 2.5 sec of cast (with no haste rating) Can I know if anyone use this spell in raid? Personally I can use sometime in 5 man party, but almost never used it in raid since w th at least 5 or 6 other healers (in 25-men raid), and sucha long casting time, I risk to do only overhealing. It costs 712 mana (I have around 12k mana raid buffed) so it easy to see that u can't use it so much in a raid if u don't want go out of mana in one minute.

    Flash heal (rank 9) ----> 423 mana cost, 1.5 sec of cast. This is in my opinion the best single target heal that priests have. Fast casting time and not so huge mana cost.

    Binding heal (ran 1) ----> 707 mana cost, 1.5 sec of cast. Nice cast time BUT 707 mana cost makes it no viable in a long fight imo. Almost never used it in raid.

    Heal (rank 4) ----> 801 mana cost, 2.5 sec of cast. Do I have to comment it? Have u ever used it in a raid?

    Lesser heal (rank 3) ----> 801 mna cost, 2.5 sec of cast. XD XD XD XD

    Renew ( rank 12) ----> 445 mana cost (less with mental agility). It is a very good hot. It is the healing spell that I use the most in raid with flash heal


    Prayer of mending ----> 393 mana cost, instant BUT with 10 sec cd (7 sec with 5 points in Divine providence). Very good healing spell it is the third most used healing spell by in raids.

    Holy nova (rank 7) ----> 655 mana cost, instant. Blizzard transforms it in a trainable spell bcause almost noone before the pacht spent the talent in the holt tree to get it. Yes it is vary nice, it looks cool, but 655 mana cos don't make me laught.

    Prayer of Healing (rank 6)----> 1131 mana cost, 3 sec.of cast. Personally I used it only in one specific fight. In Najentus fight after the shield break to heal my party stop.

    Circle of Healing (rank 5) ----> 550 mana cost, instant cast. Personally I think that now it is OP.

    So imo yes it is true that priest have thebiggest arsenal of healing spells but how many of them can be usefull in a raid? Imo:

    Flash heal

    Renew

    Prayer of mending

    Circle of Healing (but they are going to nerf it)

    So I agree that they nerf CoH but I hope also that Blizzard try to make all the rest of healing spells more viable and less useless for a raid. I mean at least:

    -Greater Heal

    -Binding Heal

    -Prayer of Healing

    -Holy nova

    have to be revisited a bit imo.



    What do u think?

    Sorry for my bad english :P








  2. #2

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    I agree with pretty much everything you stated but I disagree with your feelings toward Binding heal. Say for instance the Zul'Jin encounter. During phase 3 when the cyclones spawn I've found Binding heal to nulify the damge you take from casting and more than heal the damage people take from casting. Also the mana cost of a flash heal on one person and then yourself is more expensive than just one binding heal. just my 2 cents.

  3. #3

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    I agree, though I think all healing classes need their spells kind of overhauled. There are lots of heals that people don't use. You don't really see shamans using Healing Wave. You don't really see druids using lifebloom anymore (they didn't use healing touch before).

    It's just kind of the nature of healing spells. People use what is most efficient. If Healing Wave were efficient enough to use, I wouldn't use Lesser Healing Wave. Now that Lesser Healing Wave is better due to the glyph and changes to downranking... there's no reason to cast HW.

    I think they should allow the BIG single target heals to be downranked like previously. They've basically pushing them off the castable table for most healers since they just cost far too much mana and do mostly overheal.

  4. #4

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Yes but talking about aoe healing spells with the upcoming CoH nerf (if they do it) what kind of aoe healing spell can we use in raid?

    Prayer of healing only for your party and nothing more.

    I know that Blizzard want Shamans as main aoe healers but Blizzard says also the Priest is the most versatile healing class. Now if the coH comes how can we only think to put a priest healing the raid in fight with aoe damage?

    And it is also very sad that we cant almost use Greater Heal that is with Flash heal our most important healing spell. :'(

  5. #5

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells


    I know that Blizzard want Shamans as main aoe healers but Blizzard says also the Priest is the most versatile healing class. Now if the coH comes how can we only think to put a priest healing the raid in fight with aoe damage?
    CoH having a cooldown (or whatever they do to balance it) doesn't mean that priests aren't versatile healers.

    CoH being overpowered just meant your other healing tools were even more useless than you seem to think they are now. I have a shaman and a priest at 70. You can PoH your own group, then CoH other people, PoH your group again if they took more damage, throw up PoM which jumps around healing people, throw up some renews and FH's. You have a chance for Surge of Lights from CoH and PoH to get instant/mana-free FH for touch ups.

    The only spell I see really kinda sucking is Greater Heal. But that's the case with un-glyphed Healing Touch and Healing Wave too. They're too big and too costly and just result in a lot of overhealing. Downranking has killed the big heals. You can't adjust to make them heal the right amounts for a more mana efficient heal. I really wish they'd revert the single target big heals to being downrankable. I honestly think it would fix a lot of the issues people are having.

  6. #6

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    While i dont find any of your statements false, you list off your 4 most commonly used heals, meanwhile paladins dont even have 4 heals, you have PW:S to help soften the blows on certain folks when you know they're about to take damage, and heals ranging from little to big, an AoE heal that will give a quick boost to a group of people, and another AoE that will sustain your group. You wont be the only healer in the raid, your CoH having a cd wont matter, since there will obviously be more than one healer with an aoe spell, unless you roll 1 priest, 6 holy pallies. This just means you cant just bind CoH to all your keys and faceroll aoe situations anymore.

  7. #7

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluerelic
    While i dont find any of your statements false, you list off your 4 most commonly used heals, meanwhile paladins dont even have 4 heals, you have PW:S to help soften the blows on certain folks when you know they're about to take damage, and heals ranging from little to big, an AoE heal that will give a quick boost to a group of people, and another AoE that will sustain your group. You wont be the only healer in the raid, your CoH having a cd wont matter, since there will obviously be more than one healer with an aoe spell, unless you roll 1 priest, 6 holy pallies. This just means you cant just bind CoH to all your keys and faceroll aoe situations anymore.
    This. Depending on the situation or assignment, I use all the spells listed by the OP. We are meant to be useful in all situations, not just raid healing.

    I'm just thankful that we now have a way to tell the skilled players versus the facerollers.

  8. #8
    Fatherohealy
    Guest

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Sorry I didn't read the entire post I stopped when you said you never use GH7 or binding heals in a raid. Don't worry priests would be amazing healers without CoH there's no doubt. You should get more comfortable using your other spells because every single priest heal has its place and can be used often.

  9. #9

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Is Prayer of healing too group focused and slow casting to not even be considered in a raid setting

    (not a flame i really want the raiding holy priests to answer me)

  10. #10

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    I would like to let out from this discussion CoH. I've never use it so much no more then 10% of my entire healing done in a raid. As you can see in my first post I almost didn't speak about CoH. I'm not interested on it. I would like to speak about other healing spells. Generally In a raid I try to be not the first in the list of the healing done but at the end of the overhealing list, probably this explain why I don't use very much Greater Heal but if someone have different opinions just post it. And pls guys I'm too old for this "I'm skilled player and u sucks". I'm here also to learn if anyone has something to teach.

    Ty

  11. #11

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Quote Originally Posted by aerie
    This. Depending on the situation or assignment, I use all the spells listed by the OP. We are meant to be useful in all situations, not just raid healing.

    I'm just thankful that we now have a way to tell the skilled players versus the facerollers.
    You're a liar. When have you ever used lesser heal in a raid?

    I agree with the poster though. The main problem is that we are supposed to be versatile but without an AoE heal we lose that versatility. The problem right now is everybody sees it as grossly OP because of the fact that bosses have been nerfed so badly that CoH can be spammed.

    Pre-Nerfs CoH was 4-5 in my rotation.

    Renew > Prayer of Mending > Flash of Light > Greater Heal/Heal/Renew again/CoH all depending on situation and repeat. Prayer of Healer I used quite a bit but only with free mana cost

    CoH is a good spell and all, but lets be honest. The only reason it's even an issue is because a bunch of crybabies have been watching the healing charts like dps charts and completely ignoring overheal as part of efficiency.

    GG Healer meter creaters, you turned the one 'selfless' class into a bunch of epeening dpsers.

    Edit: I would agree to it's mana price being increased a bit and I really don't mind a 6 second down time because it doesn't effect my casting rotation anyway.

  12. #12
    Fatherohealy
    Guest

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Quote Originally Posted by mattimaeus
    Is Prayer of healing too group focused and slow casting to not even be considered in a raid setting

    (not a flame i really want the raiding holy priests to answer me)
    If you are specced CoH then CoH is the better option. It depends on your situation. If you have predictable damage and you know you have time to get it off then go for Prayer of Healing. At the moment you cant go wrong with CoH and PoM for group healing though. Prayer of Healing and Holy Nova are the 2 heals I almost never use in a raid but I'm specced CoH so I think it makes sense not to use them.

  13. #13

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Silendal
    Greater heal (rank 7) ----> 712 mana cost, 2.5 sec of cast (with no haste rating) Can I know if anyone use this spell in raid? Personally I can use sometime in 5 man party, but almost never used it in raid since w th at least 5 or 6 other healers (in 25-men raid), and sucha long casting time, I risk to do only overhealing. It costs 712 mana (I have around 12k mana raid buffed) so it easy to see that u can't use it so much in a raid if u don't want go out of mana in one minute.
    Well... If you're assigned to heal a MT or other single target taking a lot of damage, GH is huge. You get off 1 GH in 2.5 seconds that delivers more than 2 FH's (after factoring in the better spellpower coefficient applied to the longer cast) that take 3 seconds to cast, meaning you're delivering more HPS. Also, casting GH is far more mana efficient than casting 2 FH's (though the Glyph of FH makes them about equal). At 712 mana per cast, you will run OOM fairly quickly if you just spam it, but this should rarely be the case. Getting out of the 5SR will always be critical for priests in managing your mana. By the same token, you'd be similarly OOM spamming FH.

    We've lost downranked GH, and that hurts, but tbh with the escalated sources of mana regen in raids I've had far fewer issues with mana using all top-rank spells than I did pre-patch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silendal
    Binding heal (ran 1) ----> 707 mana cost, 1.5 sec of cast. Nice cast time BUT 707 mana cost makes it no viable in a long fight imo. Almost never used it in raid.
    Binding heal costs ~ 2x the cost of a glyphed FH. So basically, any time you need to heal yourself and someone else, you effectively get off 2 FH's simultaneously. If you're a FH fan and not using BH, are you casting FH on yourself in between other heals? Renew would be better than 2 FH's, but BH is optimal for that scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silendal
    Heal (rank 4) ----> 801 mana cost, 2.5 sec of cast. Do I have to comment it? Have u ever used it in a raid?

    Lesser heal (rank 3) ----> 801 mna cost, 2.5 sec of cast. XD XD XD XD
    Well yeah, these were never updated from early levels. I'd love to see Blizzard update these with higher ranks to be trained as it provides an effective alternative to downranking that can still scale with % of base mana pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silendal
    Renew ( rank 12) ----> 445 mana cost (less with mental agility). It is a very good hot. It is the healing spell that I use the most in raid with flash heal
    Great HoT for handling predictable splash damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silendal
    Prayer of mending ----> 393 mana cost, instant BUT with 10 sec cd (7 sec with 5 points in Divine providence). Very good healing spell it is the third most used healing spell by in raids.
    Don't underestimate this spell - keep it on CD. This spell can easily account for 20-25% of your healing, and is about as efficient a heal as there is, and even with the CD it is typically still floating around with a couple of charges when you put a second one out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silendal
    Holy nova (rank 7) ----> 655 mana cost, instant. Blizzard transforms it in a trainable spell bcause almost noone before the pacht spent the talent in the holt tree to get it. Yes it is vary nice, it looks cool, but 655 mana cos don't make me laught.
    Still a laughable spell for healing, though for disc healers who pair it with the glyph of HN it becomes a fast CoH alternative for 5-man content. It is though one of the most powerful AoE damage spells in the game, though, as there is no holy resistance - I've pushed over 7k dps with it on hyjal trash (though obviously it didn't take long to run OOM)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silendal
    Prayer of Healing (rank 6)----> 1131 mana cost, 3 sec.of cast. Personally I used it only in one specific fight. In Najentus fight after the shield break to heal my party stop.
    The nerf to CoH will make holy priests have to think a little more again and add this back to their lineup. If you're in a 5-man or assigned to heal up your party, PoH is both more mana-efficient and provides higher HPS than CoH, though prioritizing it presumes you can stand still long enough and afford the cast time before any healing is delivered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silendal
    Circle of Healing (rank 5) ----> 550 mana cost, instant cast. Personally I think that now it is OP.
    OP doesn't begin to describe it. I found it so disgustingly so that I specced into discipline so I get to use my brain when healing instead of binding the keyboard to CoH and /rollface healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silendal
    So imo yes it is true that priest have thebiggest arsenal of healing spells but how many of them can be usefull in a raid?
    Situationally, every one of them (aside from Holy Nova and the never updated LH and Heal) has a place, and pre-patch I was using them all to degrees varying by encounter. This is what I enjoyed about the holy priest, that it takes skill to play - not just 2 fingers.
    Bigslick (1/7 Mythic) Lethal-Thunderhorn US
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  14. #14

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Ty very much Bigslick a very constructive post. There are yet people that think before write something.

    Ty

  15. #15

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Situational, yes thats what every single spell represents.

    Renew/shield - Catching heavy spike damage
    Flash heal - innefficient but fast heal
    GHeal - Efficient heal, but long cast time
    Prayer of Healing - perhaps limited to group only but a huge healing output and the most efficient heal we have if required to the entire party.
    CoH - Efficient, mostly because of its smart aspect.
    Binding Heal - Flash heal + self heal, if you take damage this > flash heal

    Ill leave out the lesser heal and normal heal here, they are the down ranks of GHeal, but do we want to use these downrank versions?

    CoH because of its smart aspect removes all fun in healing, if the raid takes damage this is just a winner.
    However PoH > CoH if your group takes a huge damage spike.

    Putting a CD on this spell or a simular effect as arcane blast would be a good solution.
    However, every single healing spell has its usage as a priest.
    Besides using GHeal in PvE you should be using all other spells depending on the situation, simple as that or you do not master the true strength of the priest class.


  16. #16

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick
    If you're in a 5-man or assigned to heal up your party, PoH is both more mana-efficient and provides higher HPS than CoH, though prioritizing it presumes you can stand still long enough and afford the cast time before any healing is delivered.
    Little things like casting a PoM and then shield pre 'spine' to get a borrowed time - hasted PoH so that the time before heal is minimised, Or inner foucs CoH - into an instant flash heal - into a full tick of o5sr regen before stopcasted Gheal goes off, are what make me think priests have it good. So many spells, so many interactions, 2 full talent trees (both awesome and troublesome)of healing goodness. The clever priest will always be a delight to observe, and I don't doubt that the two little examples I remember from playing around in the last few weeks are the tip of the iceberg.

    Fun is not repetetive 'i win' buttons. Blizzard know that well.

  17. #17

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Consider the theorycrafting in this post: http://www.plusheal.com/viewtopic.ph...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

    According to this, depending on spec, a glyphed holy nova actually becomes tremendously effective, albeit limited to party-only, shorter range. For discipline priests w/ reasonable spellpower, at 80 glyphed HN offers more HPS and HPM than PoH w/o its glyph. Even for holy priests it can be highly competitive w/ CoH and PoH.
    Bigslick (1/7 Mythic) Lethal-Thunderhorn US
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  18. #18

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Silendal
    I think that at the moment priest healing spells need to be improued a bit (I'm not talking about CoH I also agree that it needs some kind of nerf).

    Let me explain a bit with a list:

    Greater heal (rank 7) ----> 712 mana cost, 2.5 sec of cast (with no haste rating) Can I know if anyone use this spell in raid? Personally I can use sometime in 5 man party, but almost never used it in raid since w th at least 5 or 6 other healers (in 25-men raid), and sucha long casting time, I risk to do only overhealing. It costs 712 mana (I have around 12k mana raid buffed) so it easy to see that u can't use it so much in a raid if u don't want go out of mana in one minute.

    Flash heal (rank 9) ----> 423 mana cost, 1.5 sec of cast. This is in my opinion the best single target heal that priests have. Fast casting time and not so huge mana cost.

    Binding heal (ran 1) ----> 707 mana cost, 1.5 sec of cast. Nice cast time BUT 707 mana cost makes it no viable in a long fight imo. Almost never used it in raid.

    Heal (rank 4) ----> 801 mana cost, 2.5 sec of cast. Do I have to comment it? Have u ever used it in a raid?

    Lesser heal (rank 3) ----> 801 mna cost, 2.5 sec of cast. XD XD XD XD

    Renew ( rank 12) ----> 445 mana cost (less with mental agility). It is a very good hot. It is the healing spell that I use the most in raid with flash heal


    Prayer of mending ----> 393 mana cost, instant BUT with 10 sec cd (7 sec with 5 points in Divine providence). Very good healing spell it is the third most used healing spell by in raids.

    Holy nova (rank 7) ----> 655 mana cost, instant. Blizzard transforms it in a trainable spell bcause almost noone before the pacht spent the talent in the holt tree to get it. Yes it is vary nice, it looks cool, but 655 mana cos don't make me laught.

    Prayer of Healing (rank 6)----> 1131 mana cost, 3 sec.of cast. Personally I used it only in one specific fight. In Najentus fight after the shield break to heal my party stop.

    Circle of Healing (rank 5) ----> 550 mana cost, instant cast. Personally I think that now it is OP.

    So imo yes it is true that priest have thebiggest arsenal of healing spells but how many of them can be usefull in a raid? Imo:

    Flash heal

    Renew

    Prayer of mending

    Circle of Healing (but they are going to nerf it)

    So I agree that they nerf CoH but I hope also that Blizzard try to make all the rest of healing spells more viable and less useless for a raid. I mean at least:

    -Greater Heal

    -Binding Heal

    -Prayer of Healing

    -Holy nova

    have to be revisited a bit imo.



    What do u think?

    Sorry for my bad english :P







    Please stop complaining about this "minor" nerf, for some reason I believe you've never played a Holy Paladin.

  19. #19

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerdj26
    You're a liar. When have you ever used lesser heal in a raid?
    I'm made the mistake of assuming that people in this thread were smart enough to realize that I excluded obsolete heals such as Heal and Lesser Heal. My mistake.


    Quote Originally Posted by parkerdj26
    I agree with the poster though. The main problem is that we are supposed to be versatile but without an AoE heal we lose that versatility. The problem right now is everybody sees it as grossly OP because of the fact that bosses have been nerfed so badly that CoH can be spammed.
    The "smart" targeting that has been added has dumbed down CoH healing to a ludicrous level. You don't even have to prioritize your target. I realize that content has been nerfed significantly, but if you had read the plethora of posts regarding the incoming change, you would see that they are nerfing CoH because of the numbers coming out of Naxx at 80.


    Quote Originally Posted by parkerdj26
    Pre-Nerfs CoH was 4-5 in my rotation.

    Renew > Prayer of Mending > Flash of Light > Greater Heal/Heal/Renew again/CoH all depending on situation and repeat. Prayer of Healer I used quite a bit but only with free mana cost
    First, you have a rotation? You must overheal for quite a bit. Your priority should change depending on assignment.

    Free mana cost on "Prayer of Healer"(ing)? Unless you are talking about Inner Focus, I have no idea what you are talking about. Since when did we gain the Paladin ability to FoL? See, anybody can pick things apart!


    Quote Originally Posted by parkerdj26
    CoH is a good spell and all, but lets be honest. The only reason it's even an issue is because a bunch of crybabies have been watching the healing charts like dps charts and completely ignoring overheal as part of efficiency.
    It's the same reason why Ret Paladin's are freaking out; You've been giving tools that made the role stupidly easy, now they are taking them away so you actually have to think to perform effectively. People are lazy, thus upset.

    Regardless, I welcome this change.

  20. #20

    Re: If u nerf CoH pls make more viable others healing spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Eloro
    I was expecting 'Obvious troll is obvious' spam but apparently OP is serious and loads of you agree...This both shocks and amazes me.

    I'll talk further when you lot learn to use preemptive greater heals with stopcasting macros when on tank heals and not flash heals...seriously....flash heal? You would have been laughed at for saying that is your main heal 6 months ago.
    This. I'll even go one step further and provide a basic stopcasting macro for the Flash Heal spammer's that might just get them invited to raids once the content becomes somewhat challenging again.

    Greater Heal
    Code:
    #showtooltip
    /stopcasting
    /cast Greater Heal
    For you folks that are just stubborn and want to spam Flash Heal all day;

    Flash Heal / Binding Healing (hint: situational)
    Code:
    #showtooltip
    /cast [mod:shift,target=mouseover,nodead,help][mod:Alt,help][mod:shift,target=player] Binding Heal;[target=mouseover,nodead,help][help][target=player] Flash Heal



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