Thread: CoH? What if...

  1. #1

    CoH? What if...

    Circle of Healing, rank 5 : 550 mana, I cast it for ~1000 healing, currently no CD, instant cast.
    Prayer of Healing, rank 6 : 1005 mana, I cast it for ~2500 healing, currently no CD, 2.9 second cast.

    With a one second GCD, we're looking at CoH being used three times, healing for 3000 hp, while PoH heals for 2500 hp.

    Perhaps if Blizz gives CoH the nerf for a CD of 6 seconds (speculation about a possible one or two second reduction exists, but for the sake of argument, meh), they could also give PoH the same mechanic that CoH has, in that it smart heals the lowest 5 party or raid members? That way, we have a spell that compares to a shaman's CH, in PoH, but also have the "Oh crap" resource aspect of CoH? Looking at the numbers listed above, doing this would make PoH exceptionally mana efficient, so possibly increasing mana cost or reducing healing, but not by too much, for the restriction of movement should be looked at as a drawback.

    Thoughts? Also, please don't just flame my healing numbers...

  2. #2

    Re: CoH? What if...

    But PoH has terrible range.

    That's the problem.

  3. #3

    Re: CoH? What if...

    Actually...

    PoH has a range of 36 yards,
    CoH has a range of 18 yards.

    : Edit :
    These numbers include the talent Holy reach, and though it increases both PoH and CoH, I could understand some confusion.

  4. #4

    Re: CoH? What if...

    I love this idea. Give CoH a cooldown if they give PoH a smart heal.

    People will moan that priests will be getting 75%+ using PoH, however with the cast time the same as greater heal, you could be using other spells and the mana increased so if priests are using it, it'll come back and bite them in mana programs.

    I have to admit I love this idea again, just has to be said :P Give PoH highish mana and a nice cast time and put CoH on around 20 second cooldown I would say, if not more.

  5. #5

    Re: CoH? What if...

    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownMelee
    Circle of Healing, rank 5 : 550 mana, I cast it for ~1000 healing, currently no CD, instant cast.
    Prayer of Healing, rank 6 : 1005 mana, I cast it for ~2500 healing, currently no CD, 2.9 second cast.

    With a one second GCD, we're looking at CoH being used three times, healing for 3000 hp, while PoH heals for 2500 hp.
    forgot to also add that CoH x3 = 1650 mana VS PoH 1005
    not that it justifies anything, just an importiant fact to know
    CoH x3 = 1650 mana and 3k heals = 1.81 heal per mana.
    PoH = 1005 mana and 2.5k heals = 2.48 heal per mana.

    PoH is more HPM efficient, but the time for casting = crap, however the range is awesome, so a smart feature would make this spell MUCH for effective.
    these numbers obviously change with the spell power and crit you possess.

    increasing the mana or decreasing the heal would impact the use of this spell much more than intended i believe since we are sacrificing movement to cast this large heal.

    increasing the cooldown from 6 to whatever (i saw 20 mentioned) would utterly destroy CoH all together. also increasing the cooldown would make us = garbage for raid aoe heals or touching up alot of people without casting repeated small heals. how would we be able to aoe heal if we run, cast for 3 seconds, run to another group, cast for 3 seconds, run to the next group ect ect ect... assuming all of your other raid members are not moving away from the damage source or whatnot.

  6. #6

    Re: CoH? What if...

    Yeah, I figured the math out for my guild, just forgot to post it, sorry.

    Currently, I think that PoH is an outdated heal that could benefit from the CoH nerf, possibly in such a way as was mentioned.

    Further to your reply, Peanut, I would think that the issue of running between people and healing wouldn't necessarily be a big issue; take the council fight of BT, for example, where a healer can, essentially, stand in the middle of the room (most of the fight, obviously not the whole time) and spam CoH. I understand that part of the great feature of CoH is the ability to move and spam it, but if you could stand near enough (36 yards?) to a raid member, the issue of moving and having cast time create problems would be null; after all, what you describe is essentially what shamans have to do.

  7. #7

    Re: CoH? What if...

    At the moment Circle of Healing is an easy quick tap skill, an easy way to play etc etc.

    Giving it a long cooldown but making PoM a smart heal would mean you could use PoM a lot, however you would have run around and cast the spell, meaning you would be wasting some time.

    In some situations running and casting PoM a few times could be a great help, however you could be casting a different heal.

    I think making this change would make priest healing a lot more interesting again, you would have to think about what you do, not just spam one key.

    I don't think there is much of a problem in the mana area for the spell, since you would have to be moving about and everything so that would help the low manam cost of the spell I think, maybe decreasing the spell range to make sure you have to move would increase it.

    Just thinking of ways to make this idea more of a nice change not a new CoH.

  8. #8

    Re: CoH? What if...

    Just a simple correction, but GCDs for non-rogue/feral cat druid abilities are 1.5 seconds. Rogue and cat druid abilities are on 1 sec GCDs (And hunter aspects now and I think Pally auras too)

  9. #9

    Re: CoH? What if...

    Making PoH a smart heal - allowing you to heal raid members with it, will make the holy priest OP. Lets be honest. CoH geting a CD of 6 sec leaves the priest in a place that he isn't that much of a flexiable healer - i agree. i agree the druids are more verstile then us. but a OP solution will not help: for one - other classes will complain, and 2, its not that fun to play when everything is so easy.

    i must agree; the solution given to CoH is not a bad one, but not a good one either. perhaps it will change to the 3 sec CD (leaving the WG at 6 sec) and giving the holy priest abit more verstile then the druid, and a useable tool to heal raid. i must add: the CD add isn't a good solution: not 3 or 6 sec.

    insidelane: poh range as written under you is 36 yards (or 40 if talented). sad to see a priest (or troll) complain about PoH range.

  10. #10

    Re: CoH? What if...

    The added CD to CoH really isn't that bad...speaking as a priest who pre-WoTLK raided sunwell up to KJ. I healed as disc. spec. and had no problems. My mana efficiency was not even an issue, and me keeping me on the main tank full time, and then have a druid and a paladin just watch the tank for big spikes.

    My personal opinion, healers have gotten horribly lazy...back before Burning Crusade, the only real AoE heal was chain heal...and even that was rarely used due to horrible mana effeciency. Being a healer took some actual skill...I agree with ghostcrawlers post last week, that its too easy right now...priests have one heal spell as far as they know, CoH, its the only spell they ever cast, for every situation, regardless of what the situation actually calls for. Healers need to relearn what it means to heal proactivly and get away from this stupid methodology of reactive healing.

  11. #11

    Re: CoH? What if...

    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownMelee
    Circle of Healing, rank 5 : 550(-10% from Talents) mana, I cast it for ~1000 healing, currently no CD, instant cast.
    Prayer of Healing, rank 6 : 1005(-20% talents..) mana, I cast it for ~2500 healing, currently no CD, 3 second cast.

    With a one and a half second GCD, we're looking at CoH being used two times, healing for 2000 hp, while PoH heals for 2500 hp.

    Perhaps if Blizz gives CoH the nerf for a CD of 6 seconds (speculation about a possible one or two second reduction exists, but for the sake of argument, meh), they could also give PoH the same mechanic that CoH has, in that it smart heals the lowest 5 party or raid members? That way, we have a spell that compares to a shaman's CH, in PoH, but also have the "Oh crap" resource aspect of CoH? Looking at the numbers listed above, doing this would make PoH exceptionally mana efficient, so possibly increasing mana cost or reducing healing, but not by too much, for the restriction of movement should be looked at as a drawback.

    Thoughts? Also, please don't just flame my healing numbers...
    So fixed...

    CoH will get a nerf coz its "smart". if u add this to PoH it will be OP like Coh it was ... since PoH is more mana effi and has higher HPM.

    I dont understand why they just make CoH like it was pre 3.02 or reduce the number of targets to .. maybe 3? with Glyph 4 ?

  12. #12

    Re: CoH? What if...

    Speaking as a disc priest that change for PoH being a smart heal would be very nice. That way I should be able to contribute more to the aoe healing of the group since as a disc you have 2 ways to reduce healing time: Power Infusion and Borrowed Time

  13. #13

    Re: CoH? What if...

    But Disc are no aE healer....and holys shouldnt be the best aE healer as well. (in a raid situation)

    Best aE healer should still be shamans since they have only 3 (now 4) direkt healing spells..gc wrote this too

  14. #14

    Re: CoH? What if...

    The only thing I have in question is how many targets are being healed by each spell.

    CoH = 1000 (x10 targets) x3 = 30k heals and 1650 mana = 18.18 heal per mana.
    PoH = 2500 (x5 targets) = 12.5k heals and 1005 mana = 12.43 heal per mana.

    With these new coefficients, It is easy to see why CoH is OP and not PoH.


  15. #15

    Re: CoH? What if...

    Quote Originally Posted by meowmeow
    insidelane: poh range as written under you is 36 yards (or 40 if talented). sad to see a priest (or troll) complain about PoH range.
    I didn't complain about it....

    I just didn't realise the range was so big but yeah 36 yards isn't really that far I think...

  16. #16

    Re: CoH? What if...

    The only thing I have in question is how many targets are being healed by each spell.
    CoH = 1000 (x10 targets) x3 = 30k heals and 1650 mana = 18.18 heal per mana.
    PoH = 2500 (x5 targets) = 12.5k heals and 1005 mana = 12.43 heal per mana.

    With these new coefficients, It is easy to see why CoH is OP and not PoH.
    Huh? CoH = 5 targets (6 when glyphed) unless I missed something huge. I admit I didn't read the whole topic, but I tried to go back and quickly browse to see if I was missing a theoretical discussion. Sorry if I skipped it, but wanted to make sure everyone knows CoH doesn't hit 10 people.

    Also, you get off 2 CoH's per PoH because of GCD. PoH = 3 seconds, CoH = instant with 1.5s GCD. Only the first cast of PoH in a spamming match would be skewed towards CoH since it is instant. For instance for 2 PoH's, 5 CoH's would go off. If n = the number of PoH's, 2n+1 would always be the number of CoH's. As you do more iterations, you would get closer to doing only 2n. At only the smallest iterations (where n=1, 2) are you close to getting 3x as many CoH's.

  17. #17

    Re: CoH? What if...

    Quote Originally Posted by insidelane
    I didn't complain about it....

    I just didn't realise the range was so big but yeah 36 yards isn't really that far I think...
    What........................ are you serious? Max healing range from yourself to a target is 40 yards. 36 is usually max range for a caster dps from them to a target (30 yards + 20% [6 more yards]). That's HUGE. Chain heal jump range is 10-12 yards. I couldn't find a quick 100% answer, but that's rough 1/3-1/4 the range of CoH/PoH. lol Please don't complain about the range of priest AoE heal.

  18. #18

    Re: CoH? What if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mataus
    What........................ are you serious? Max healing range from yourself to a target is 40 yards. 36 is usually max range for a caster dps from them to a target (30 yards + 20% [6 more yards]). That's HUGE. Chain heal jump range is 10-12 yards. I couldn't find a quick 100% answer, but that's rough 1/3-1/4 the range of CoH/PoH. lol Please don't complain about the range of priest AoE heal.
    a person that in begining doesn't know the range of PoH, then says: " 36 yards isn't really far i think",
    this person probably believes he's healing from 100 yards.
    to save you time, effort and nerves - ignore and move on. some ppl play casual and never click some of their spells, they care less about range, and have around zero clue about their spells and the game's method.
    like most of the ppl on mmo forums (ouch).

  19. #19

    Re: CoH? What if...

    I think making PoH smart is a decent idea - maybe make it slightly more expensive, but that done, I don't think it would be overpowered. It's already too expensive to spam. It's only efficient when you have several people who are missing several thousand hp - or, more accurately, when you have several people who will be missing several thousand hp in 3 seconds. It's already an effective heal for many of these cases, but restricted to the priest's group (which means that sometimes the right thing to do is to have a few priests and spread them out into different groups, which is something that runs counter to Blizzard's current philosophy in two ways). Heck, you could also make it so that it always targets the caster, plus four others chosen intelligently raid-wide - in this case, I don't even think you'd need to raise its cost. It would have a niche (massive infrequent damage to several raid members, followed by a period where you can comfortably stand and cast) that is common enough that people would use this currently-underused spell, but you'd do terribly if you used it for general healing.


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