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  1. #1

    Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Which gems are better to use?

    5%crit strike/+6spell power? or +6spell power/+5int

    Anybody know of a break down of the gems?

  2. #2

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    5%crit strike/+6spell power
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  3. #3
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Where do you get gems with 5% (PERCENT!) crit on them?
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  4. #4

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Crit rating&spellpower.

  5. #5

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=16992

    Very good site. Uses "pseudopower" as an easy conversion from spell power to crit, hit, or haste.

    As of now, 1 spell power ~ 1.64 crit ~ 1.59 haste ~ 4.71 spirit ~ 5.23 int ~ 0.88 hit

    As of straight dps numbers, hit > SP > haste > crit > spirit > int
    If hit capped obviously do not bother with hit.

    Imo, crit > haste because of imp spirit tap. If mana is a big issue, which it is for long fights on my priest atm, then go for crit because it is minimally worse than haste. Also, haste makes you go oom faster, but this is just personal preference.

  6. #6

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    I am a bit skeptic towards the numbers at shadowpriest.com. Haste, literally, increases damage of one spell out of 6 we have in our arsenal. Crit increases direct damage of 3 spells, along with the proc damage of mind flay. Also, it ups the uptime of IST which is a slight dps boost and nice mana regen. So I'd value crit over haste. I doubt that SimCraft is to be trusted at this point.

  7. #7

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Mate, you have no idea what you're talking about. Haste lowers the global cooldown and therefore every single spell the shadowpriest casts benefits from it. With the recent changes, crit also benefits every spell of ours.

    Anyway, Jumbe, forget about crit/dmg gems, pure dmg is a way to go when gemming.

  8. #8

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Quote Originally Posted by Freyros
    Mate, you have no idea what you're talking about. Haste lowers the global cooldown and therefore every single spell the shadowpriest casts benefits from it. With the recent changes, crit also benefits every spell of ours.

    Anyway, Jumbe, forget about crit/dmg gems, pure dmg is a way to go when gemming.
    I doubt I have no clue what I'm talking about, use your brain a bit. So what if it lowers gcd? Does it affect the tick of any of your dots? Can you lower MF to 1.5 sec or below (without heroism)? What use is it if MB / SWD have their own cooldowns? The only direct benefit is the damage of MF. Secondary effects like lower GCD cannot be compared to one that crit provides. So you will cast your dots and get the rotation going faster, and still the only spell that directly benefits is MF. As of recent changes, crit affects all the spells we have in our arsenal, haste does it for one (directly).

  9. #9

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    u need less Haste to get 1% than crit, thats why haste is slightly better.

    Red is the strongest gem by far..so if the setbonus isnt worth it, gem red.. if its worth gem orange.. dont matter much if u use haste or crit.

  10. #10

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostprophet
    Red is the strongest gem by far..so if the setbonus isnt worth it, gem red.. if its worth gem orange.. dont matter much if u use haste or crit.
    People only gemmed pure red because of old logic.

    Prior to 3.0, crit was near pointless, and Vampiric Touch being based from damage done meant that you needed to stack as much damage as possible. But now that you actually have a bar that can go down (quite easily) you need to actually start balancing your gear.

    Fooling around with numbers, I liked having a 22% crit rating, though of course I'd love more. Kept my mana up. Sure having OVERNINETHOUSAND spell power means that you can do a lot of damage, but zero mana (or health) is zero dps.

    The game's changed, the spreadsheets have to catch up and so does your way of thinking.
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  11. #11

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Blizzard did it to me again... they made the DPS portion of my class love crit. It was so simple, stacking spell damage. Now I'm once again going to go crit-crazy, even at the expense of other stats.

    My name is Solerah... and I'm a crit addict.

  12. #12

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Quote Originally Posted by yeknom366
    http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=16992

    Very good site. Uses "pseudopower" as an easy conversion from spell power to crit, hit, or haste.

    As of now, 1 spell power ~ 1.64 crit ~ 1.59 haste ~ 4.71 spirit ~ 5.23 int ~ 0.88 hit

    As of straight dps numbers, hit > SP > haste > crit > spirit > int
    If hit capped obviously do not bother with hit.

    Imo, crit > haste because of imp spirit tap. If mana is a big issue, which it is for long fights on my priest atm, then go for crit because it is minimally worse than haste. Also, haste makes you go oom faster, but this is just personal preference.
    From all the simulationcraft data i've seen haste is rated almost the same as crit (but a tad higher)... imo it's not high enough to worry about and looking at a lot of the gear haste is baked in to pieces you want anyways... so i'd be inclined to prioritise crit ahead of haste in terms of enchants & gems when the alternative won't be signficantly higher... ie. your gem is going to give you the same amount of haste/crit.

  13. #13

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostprophet
    u need less Haste to get 1% than crit, thats why haste is slightly better.

    Red is the strongest gem by far..so if the setbonus isnt worth it, gem red.. if its worth gem orange.. dont matter much if u use haste or crit.
    Your logic is flawed, needing less haste rating to get 1% haste compared to crit rating needed for 1% crit cannot be compared. It's like comparing apples and pears. I doubt we can safely say "stack X instead of Y". Shadow Priest will finally be diverse. Gear with Spirit + Crit rating looks to me as cut-out for a spriest. Time and parses will tell what's the best balance between spellpower / crit / haste (assuming hit is maxed).

  14. #14
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    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Been fooling around with differnt gear, more crit - less haste and more haste - less crit.
    imo - short fights lean more and more to haste, but the longer a fight goes on the less haste i want, give me crit.

    Mana is a bit of a problem for me at this stage, so dpsing longer as apposed to quicker, is a no-brainer.

    but each to his/her own. crit vs. haste - meh, i collected both sets and use both.
    Im a Priest that can tank Illidan. For ~~~ 6seconds & then, i go splat. <3 Dispersion.

  15. #15

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Your logic is flawed, needing less haste rating to get 1% haste compared to crit rating needed for 1% crit cannot be compared. It's like comparing apples and pears. I doubt we can safely say "stack X instead of Y". Shadow Priest will finally be diverse. Gear with Spirit + Crit rating looks to me as cut-out for a spriest. Time and parses will tell what's the best balance between spellpower / crit / haste (assuming hit is maxed).
    actually i got this from shadowpriest.com. So i will tell battlemaid that he is wrong ..... honestly i didnt believe it first too...since Crit affect all of our spells and haste just lower GCD(or cast time for vt) from our Dots..

    quote :1% haste is worse than 1% crit. Haste just needs less rating to reach 1% than crit, and it redeems the situation. Check Mechanics F.A.Q. for more details on combat ratings -> % conversion.

    --> http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?p=158572#p158572


    People only gemmed pure red because of old logic.
    Nah, Spellpower is still our best stat and i know that crit is a very valueable stat now.

    The red gem (rare) has 19SP = 19 PseudoPower(PP)
    The orange gem(rare) has 9Sp and 8Critrating =13.91 PP

    Date is from shadowpriest.com as well...


  16. #16

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Actually Hit is our best stat until capped... then spellpower, haste & crit are very close together, so much so I think it's pretty safe to treat them as worth the same.

    However...

    You need to realise the the relationship between the stats changes as your gear scales.... so at T7 lvl 1 haste might be worth 0.5 dps but at T8 lvl it might be 0.6 dps or even 0.4 dps...

    Haste has some purple patches where a particular amount gives extra benefit... one such spot is where 2 x MF = 1 MB CD, getting a tad more haste than that sweet spot probably gives no dps increase but getting well past that sweet spot does.

    Crit is going to have the effect of increase our MP/5 with more imp spirit tap uptime and blizzard have already stated that they are going to make mana management more of an issue in WotLK. Not going oom has a dps value that simulations don't calculate (and this is why im going to value crit over haste considering they are close together anyways).

    Lastly, this point of needing less haste rating to reach 1% is garbage... simulationcraft maps the ratings, not the percentages... if simulationcraft says 1 haste rating = x pseudo power then that's what it equals in comparison to 1 crit rating... whether you need 5million rating for 1% is irrelevant.

  17. #17

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbe
    Which gems are better to use?

    5%crit strike/+6spell power? or +6spell power/+5int

    Anybody know of a break down of the gems?
    What i am gonna do with the level 80 raiding gear is this:

    - Getting Hit capped (17% - 6% in talents) is your first priority though, after that i will go for the following:

    Red sockets: pure spellpower
    Yellow sockets: Crit and Spellpower gem
    Blue: probably spellpower and spirit. (not sure about this one yet, but spirit is always nice to have for regen. Better than stamina at least).

    And crit is way better than haste now. Espacially seeing every tick of Mind flay can crit and Blizzard is working on letting our dots crit aswell. Haste is nice to have to lower your casting time on spells but Mind blast is already on CD all the time so you are left with Mind flay and soon Mind sear. I prefer crit over haste because you do more dmg and you have the chance to proc Imp spirit tap.

    Iirc the current stats for haste and crit are:
    1 Crit rating is : 0.85 spellpower.
    1 Haste rating: 0.65 Spellpower.

  18. #18

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Again Aglaranna, that isn't true... the ratio of how effective haste & crit change dependant on your stats... at T7 lvl haste is technically better (check out simulationcraft or www.shadowpriest.com) however its not significantly better... (something along the lines of 0.63 PP for Haste and 0.61 PP for crit)... it's so close together it's a fair statement to say they are basically equal.

    Crit will help with mana regeneration in the form of imp spirit tap, haste will contribute in burning your mana faster... so crit is going to be the better option...

    As we get into T8 and T9 gear the ratio of the stats will change, I have a suspicion that haste will be the better of the two stats later on but its entirely possible that isnt the case or they may even remain about the same.

  19. #19

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    The new numbers for pseudodamage values are in.

    * 1 spellpower = 1 PP
    * 1 crit rating = 0.61 PP
    * 1 haste = 0.56 PP
    * 1 spirit = 0.21 PP
    * 1 int = 0.19 PP
    * 1 hit = 1.12 PP (when not hit-capped)

    With the recent changes to Shadowform; Crit is definately better than haste. Remember to take into account diminishing returns when gearing and socketing though.

  20. #20

    Re: Shadowpriest Gemming question

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Again Aglaranna, that isn't true... the ratio of how effective haste & crit change dependant on your stats... at T7 lvl haste is technically better (check out simulationcraft or www.shadowpriest.com) however its not significantly better... (something along the lines of 0.63 PP for Haste and 0.61 PP for crit)... it's so close together it's a fair statement to say they are basically equal.

    Crit will help with mana regeneration in the form of imp spirit tap, haste will contribute in burning your mana faster... so crit is going to be the better option...

    As we get into T8 and T9 gear the ratio of the stats will change, I have a suspicion that haste will be the better of the two stats later on but its entirely possible that isnt the case or they may even remain about the same.
    That site is full of mistakes and wrong calculations m8, dont even bother looking at it. Crit is better in breakdown numbers than haste at 80. That number doesnt change, its just that haste gets a new calculations everytime when you get more, to fully understand the calculation of haste combined with your spells and then combine it to the rest of your spell haste.

    And seeing T8 and T9 are not even out, I would jump to any conclusions about that gear.

    I will still prefer Crit over spell haste at any time. Dots and Death are both instant. Rather give more crits to Mind flay and Death than a faster cast time.

    And dont forget that the change to Shd form gives the last boost to get crit. The more crit the more dmg you dots do.

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