Armor penetration

[Myur]

Im actually lvl 75, levelling as retribution (my main is prot). Going in dungeon and making quests, i saw there are a lot of item reward (or drop) that have amor penetration.

How much it is useful for us?


Tx

[Adamson]

Not as good as STR CRIT or Expertise.

But good.

[Myur]

and compared with haste?

[Adamson]

**holds OP's hand**


http://www.maxdps.com/paladin/retribution.php


Maxdps has always been kinda sketchy but if you look in the bottom right it has a very accurate stat contribution breakdown.

Rets = (once hit capped)

str > crit > Agility > expertise > armor pen > haste

Haste/expertise/armor pen are what i consider bonus stats. Don't grab a piece of gear or gem for them just because that stat is there, point for point str/crit is the way to go once hit capped.

[Knighthonor]

**holds OP's hand**


http://www.maxdps.com/paladin/retribution.php


Maxdps has always been kinda sketchy but if you look in the bottom right it has a very accurate stat contribution breakdown.

Rets = (once hit capped)

str > crit > Agility > expertise > armor pen > haste

Haste/expertise/armor pen are what i consider bonus stats. Don't grab a piece of gear or gem for them just because that stat is there, point for point str/crit is the way to go once hit capped.

Why Expertise> Armor Pen and Haste?

[Remesh]

Why Expertise> Armor Pen and Haste?

Not a paladin (warrior) but going to have to say that its hard to increase your dps against a target that you cannot hit because they have parried or dodged. Thus expertise > Armor Pen. Until capped of course.

[Adamson]

Why Expertise> Armor Pen and Haste?

http://www.wowwiki.com/Expertise

[Adamson]

Not a paladin (warrior) but going to have to say that its hard to increase your dps against a target that you cannot hit because they have parried or dodged. Thus expertise > Armor Pen. Until capped of course.

exactly, 5000ap doesn't mean much when you only hit 1/2 the time.

[Aloysius]

Even though elitistjerks has shown that even non-hit capped you should still be stacking str over hit?

[Swampmoose]

Even though elitistjerks has shown that even non-hit capped you should still be stacking str over hit?

Correct.

Armor Penetration is still at the bottom of the barrel for stats.

[zarondd]

Conclusion from older related topic,
Apen is weaker then haste for all realistic situations (armor of target would need to be exceedingly high for apen to be better)

[Offhand]

Even though elitistjerks has shown that even non-hit capped you should still be stacking str over hit?

Source?

[Adamson]

(+) 10 Hit Rating: 0.00
(+) 10 Crit Rating: 3.04
(+) 10 Strength: 7.66
(+) 10 Agility: 2.96
(+) 10 Haste Rating: 1.77
(+) 10 Expertise Rating: 4.08
(+) 10 Armor Pen. Rating: 3.10
(+) 10 Spell Power: 1.52


there's the stat contribution once hitcapped with no buffs.

[exeedorbit]

Furthermore, haste > armor pen (unless you have a lot of it) because it stacks with SoM/SoB.

[yiptastic]

(+) 10 Hit Rating: 0.00
(+) 10 Crit Rating: 3.04
(+) 10 Strength: 7.66
(+) 10 Agility: 2.96
(+) 10 Haste Rating: 1.77
(+) 10 Expertise Rating: 4.08
(+) 10 Armor Pen. Rating: 3.10
(+) 10 Spell Power: 1.52


there's the stat contribution once hitcapped with no buffs.

does that take account into the price for each stat?

[Raptorg]

Even though elitistjerks has shown that even non-hit capped you should still be stacking str over hit?

Hit cap is for every dps a priority, it's something you can't get out of.

Even if Strength gives more dps, getting that hit cap is always the way to go, because never missing causes that Strength to scale better and better.

does that take account into the price for each stat?

It's just 10 strength > 10 whatever rating.

But with such a massive difference, it shouldn't really be considered.

On top of that, all ratings cost the same itempoints.

[sillverhair]

not sure if this makes any sense and if it doesnt just tell me, but

our hit cap at lvl 80 will be 295, however as soon as you over 200 which is more or less a soft cap
in my opinion start stacking str>crit>hit/haste

why well im of the opinion that you need to be able to hit things hence the 200 hit rating,
you also need to be able to dmg things after you hit them, thus the str>crit

and once you have stacked those nicely along to (unknown ap amount atm) and about 28% crit (enough to keep vengeance up) its good to get that hit rating capped,

and even tho everyone keeps saying how crap haste is, its not... as 25% of our total dmg is white dmg with a good rotation, if you get haste this amount will increase (due to hitting more in the same time) imo get enough rating so you can make a 3.8 weapon into a 2.8 with gear + windfury then your fine

and you can go back to str>crit

[Aloysius]

@ Silver

as I just responded in the ret stats post, the calculated and tested formula for stats (provided by Ambi) is:

Str > Hit > Exp > Crit > Haste > ArP

As your gear imporves, you should have no problem getting enough hit to where you feel comfortable. From a pure dps perspective, this is how you should look at it.

@Raptorg

Yes, in fact, there has been much debate over this topic, but even including misses and mana regen, it has been shown that strength is your best stat by far, regardless of whether or not you're hit capped. I will try to dig through the EJ forums to find the exact post today as I don't have it bookmarked on this comp for both you and offhand.

From Redcape, the OP who created the spreadsheets:

"Only partly true. Once you are hit and expertise capped Str/Crit is optimal, but until that point the ordering is more like:

Str
Hit
Expertise
Crit

leaving Haste, ArPen and SPower as the junk stats.

Although admittedly AP is actually really, really good. Since you get 2 AP per itemization point it is actually superior to everything but Str (obviously) but they seem adverse to putting Str and AP both on our gear."

[Varius]

Remember folks that every Missed/dodged/parried attack is also a lost seal proc and a chance for a trinket/skill to proc so you have to take that into account. I usually go Hit till cap, expertise till dodge cap which is around 6%(should usually be attacking mobs from behind so no parries) then just stack Str.

What with sharing gear with warriors now hit should be a non problem so as long as you dont go under a decent amount of crit for vengance chances are we will be rocking strait +str gems all over again.

[Aloysius]

*sigh* the whole point of the calculated formula and the point everyone seems to be missing is that the stat dps calculation takes into account when you miss and the failed procs as a result. If it didn't how could you possibly compare hit rating or expertise to strength?