Prot specing for Seals of the Pure or more +Crit

[Wendelboe]

Hello, I am currently leveling my prot pally (nearly lv 73) and was wondering where i should be placing my upcoming tallent points. Im trying to decide between Seals of the Pure or some of the ret talents that offet +Crit (Conviction/Heart of the Crusader). So the big question is which gets me more damage/threat? Seals of the pure is the all the time 3% per point damage increase to seals and their judgements which on the one hand I like because of the reliability, but on the other hand I have been disapointed with the seal and judgement damage when compaired to other abilities (notably HoTR but also AS, Conc, and HoW). Now +1% Crit per point on the other hand is not always going to "crit" but it works across the board on every spell and even white melee. So anybody have any experience/math/words of wisdom that could help me with this question? Thanks in advance.

[Kaillus]

I have been leveling as prot since 73 (500,000 exps in 74 now), and have been experimenting with different gears and seals.

I won't go Seals of the Pure, because I hardly even use Righteousness and Corruption. I use Corruption for dungeon runs, but I use blood, wisdom, or light while leveling. Blood does the most damage, but reduces your health and mana, so I use divine plea a lot now, and swap between seals depending on the situation.

Use a slow weapon for higher HotR hits, it makes a huge difference. Test for yourself between a 2.6 and a 1.6. Seal of Blood judgments are awesome. I don't use seal of command like many like and recommend.

You just need to adapt and keep switching seals as needed. Also, I am focusing on the crit gear and talents too. I can't wait to hit 75 for the shield spell.

I suggest avoiding seals of the pure for now, unless those seals are your preferred seals. If it included an increase in all judgment damage, then 5/5 would be a no brainer.

[Lumidar]

im going for Crit mainly since it will help with judgements, hammer of the righteous and shield of righteousness. Also Avenger's Shield (especially if you're getting the glyph for it)

also... am I the only one who's using Divine plea every time the CD is up?

[mattimaeus]

why are people so opposed to the bread and butter seals of the pure when you have to throw so many points around to get to the +crit in ret anyway

[Draco cracona]

im going for Crit mainly since it will help with judgements, hammer of the righteous and shield of righteousness. Also Avenger's Shield (especially if you're getting the glyph for it)

also... am I the only one who's using Divine plea every time the CD is up?

Crit>seals afaik, as you have one filler point (1/2 imp judge, 3/3 HotC), and crit will help a lot more as it'll affect HotR and SotR, both huge threat sources.

[Wendelboe]

Ok, so it is looking like the crit is the way to go from what people are saying, especialy if im leaning that way now at 72 and at 75 having SoR will just put more favor on crit over SotP. Another quick question, depending on the points I spend in ret, is a 1% crit bonus & 33% chance seals wont get dispelled better or should I go for the 1% (2% against mostly everything) across the board damage increase from Crusade?

[EndGame]

For tanking; better to get consistent +damage as opposed to RNG crit.

For leveling... go ret. I tanked as ret in t4/ t5 gear.

Prot palys shouldn't have a ton of threat issues, period. HotR / Seal of Vengeance/corruption are going to be your consistent threat gen while SotR will be snap threat/large gen (opening threat gens). Concecrate if you have the mana.

For entry level tanks; forget threat and get mitigation/stam. Stack defense until you're uncritable.

In short. for leveling, go ret and forget seals of the pure.

For tanking, get seals of the pure.

[Lumidar]

why are you going so far down into ret?

this is what I'm getting by 80:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=011218040502

and we're not talking about instance tanking while leveling, we're talking about lvl 80 tanking.

[Basutai]

Mathematically speaking (sorry, that's all i do), the crit is a more sound route to go from a TPS perspective.

Only your seals and judgement benefit from 5 pts in SotP, that bonus damage multiplied by 1.9 from RF.

However, the crit adds to the equation for any and all spells that can crit, anmely:
AShield
ShR
HotR
Judge

The 8% (with convic and hotc) boost applies to each.
The equation to factor hit and crit into your projected long-run DPS is (1+decimal hit+decimal crit);

1.08 boost to each ability's threat offers 1.08*the TPS of each separate ability.

You'll see spikier but long-term better threat from the crit.

[zarondd]

IMO doesnt matter as threat is being phased out.
Just choose the talents you like the sound of.
Whichever stats your talents don't provide can be covered up by gearing anyways.

[yiptastic]

IMO doesnt matter as threat is being phased out.
Just choose the talents you like the sound of.
Whichever stats your talents don't provide can be covered up by gearing anyways.

crit > seal of the pure.

cos it applies to all attacks including white, SoTR, HoTR, crittable seals, judgments, exorcism and holy wrath.

white(str base now, means you will hit harder than in BC), SoTR and HoTR are on shorter CD than judgement.

[Kaillus]

Speed doesn't affect HotR, you'd know this if you'd been paying attention about 6 weeks ago. I prefer a fast weapon such as Blade of Savagery purely because it stacks Blood Corruption faster.

You've been prot for a few days/1 and a third levels and you think you know it all already. I'm really doubting that.

SoBlood judgements are awesome huh? Well why don't ya try doing a full stack SoCor/SoV judgement and compare the differences. There's barely any, you just don't take any damage, and on top of that, you've got the DoT running as well.

Like Mattimaeus said, SotP is the bread and butter choice out of either of those, there's no competition.

@Lumidar: Nope, you're not the only one, i too am using it whenever it's up while grinding.

Well, I am sorry, I guess my memory fails me. I swear I read on maintankadin that HotR hit harder with a slower weapon, and I saw higher numbers. I will try again tonight. Since I appear to be wrong about weapon speed I appologize. Upon doing a search on Maintankadin, weapon dps does seem to be the factor.

I stand by seal of blood doing the most damage, as I have seen numerous posts on here and other sites stating that and showing numbers. A full stack of SoV/Corrup may have similar numbers, I will check tonight as well.

I tend to play prot pulling many mobs as I can and use seal of light with judgment of the wise to end fight with full health and mana. I have leveled as prot from 25 to 60, then most of 60 to 70. I might still be considered a novice, but I still get shit done, and no I am not a raider. I am an altaholic.

[Lumidar]

HotR used to be based on weapon speed since it was purely based on weapon damage. they have since normalized it to work on the DPS of the weapon instead. therefore the speed of the weapon means nothing but the DPS number does.

I agree that Blood will produce more damage but at the cost of taking your health. not something you want to do while tanking a boss

[Offhand]

Personally, I'm waiting for level 75 to try out prot soloing again. It was completely manageable before but questing is best done with high single target dps (most of the time). I'm finding mobs too spread out to pull more than 5-6 at a time.

Anyway, as soon as I get my SotR the basic breakdown will look a like this:

Non-crit abilities: SoV dots, consecration
Crit abilities: Judgment, HotR, SotR, Captain America (avenger's shield)

So will seals of the pure of crit have a bigger impact on your threat gen? Most likely, and this is a shot in the dark until I test further, crit will.

For soloing, I would definitely go for crit because you're gonna have seal of wisdom up half the time anyway.

[Evereghalo]

I posted a thread like this pre wrath,

and every noob paladin in this forum flamed me because I said the 5percent crit, and 4% more damage was worth it more than pure.

Now all you guys do a 180, I need to find that post and flame every single person that was the noob then.

[Offhand]

I posted a thread like this pre wrath,

and every noob paladin in this forum flamed me because I said the 5percent crit, and 4% more damage was worth it more than pure.

Now all you guys do a 180, I need to find that post and flame every single person that was the noob then.

I flamed you for it.

Before the 20% seal damage nerf and your complete lack of proof, or reason other than some some solid math you claimed to have done but not posted. Yeah, it was deserved.

[wyrdone]

With the upcoming change to Seals of the Pure, Seals > Crit always.

[Offhand]

You'll notice I left out Ardent Defender and thats because it's very situational and bad. If you get spiked and are going to die you can just LoH yourself or Divine Shield. Specing 5 points in something that isn't always active is retarded.
I left out JotJ because it just nerfs your reckoning. Reckoning of course increases the damage of your seals by upping how often they're applied.

Slow down there bud. Reckoning isn't up all the time either. In fact, main tanking with anything other then SoV is generally not advised and reckoning is pretty gimp when using SoV.

Ardent defender saves lives, yours in particular. I would advise you to take it.

Judgments of the just is a necessary talent... for someone in the raid to take. It might not be you but please don't advise others to increase damage on the tank so he can get his reckoning proc.

Other than that I can see your build producing some great threat, for the 30 seconds or so you would remain alive. Reckoning - ardent defender - judgments of the just = dead tank.

[Draco cracona]

Slow down there bud. Reckoning isn't up all the time either. In fact, main tanking with anything other then SoV is generally not advised and reckoning is pretty gimp when using SoV.

Ardent defender saves lives, yours in particular. I would advise you to take it.

Judgments of the just is a necessary talent... for someone in the raid to take. It might not be you but please don't advise others to increase damage on the tank so he can get his reckoning proc.

Other than that I can see your build producing some great threat, for the 30 seconds or so you would remain alive. Reckoning - ardent defender - judgments of the just = dead tank.

Reckoning is only useful in raids as an AoE threat ability to apply SoV to multiple mobs at once, it's a viable choice as you can cancelaura reckoning on single target but tbh Ardent is FTW, and if you're wanting to neglect a 20% damage reduction on single target fights so that your reckoning which does practically no single target threat due to SoV and unviability of twisting procs slightly more then GL.

[Boldwyn]

With the upcoming change to Seals of the Pure, Seals > Crit always.

There is no upcoming change to Seals of the Pure. Judgments of the Pure is the changed one (deep holy).