SW:D Part of dps rotation?

[zarrak]

With the buff to MF, is SW even worth casting in a normal dps rotation? (I.E. not talking about trying to ninja a killing blow to proc spirit tap)

Or is it best to just keep VT and DP up, keep mind blast on cooldown, and otherwise just MF? (and during heroism, just use MF)


thanks

[Briggs]

SW was in always in a dps rotation. Well maybe not always but most of the time.

[Nezoia]

No, not worth using SW anymore. And on most encounters the next month your gear won't be good enough to survive taking extra damage.

I can easy be in top 10 on damage without using it.

We're 4-5 trash packs away from Patchwerk, I'll let you know how it went in 15min time.

Update:

First wipe: 2504.3 dps, 8th on dps.

I'm now using SW here since we got no spare healing for dps'ers.

Update two:

Patchwerk dead, 12th on dps , 2443.6 dps.

Huge problem with mana, 2xShadowfiend, Dispersion and Inner Focus and I still had to wand 2-3 times.

Main reason for huge dps loss

[jkw]

@ Nezoia
How much mana do you have? Buffed and unbuffed?

Edit:
Why don't you have 3/3 Meditation if/when you raid?

@ OP
I don't use SW.
VT+SW:P+MB+DP+MF+MF
Then I renew VT after each MFx2 plus renew DP whenever cooldown is done.

In a dungeon I have around 1100dps at level 75. 1100ish spellpower, 13% crit and 140ish haste.
Will be much easier to benchmark at 80 when I'm hitcapped and can cather SP/Crit after the cap.
Now I just grab whatever gear got most combo of SP/Spirit (for the grinding and imp. spirit tap) and it's nice if the items have some hit, haste and/or crit too.

[Nezoia]

Err, I do have 3/3 Meditation. 12508 unbuffed mana, 14k buffed

[haeresis]

I'm not familiar with those fights yet, but back in the AQ days on abnormally long fights I'd carry a few pieces of gear loaded with int. So I might sacrifice some spell dmg, but would raise overall dmg/dps by not having to conserve mana so soon.

As a healer, you may be concerned with SWD as part of your rotation because some healers don't seem to like to heal from SWD or life tap. If I'm so concerned with mana that I might become selective in healing i usually let ppl know.

[lsfreak]

It's not worth using. It's a complication to the sequence of spells, introduces more lag factors (instant-cast spells are penalized more than casted spells with latency because of how spell queuing works), and scales worse than Mind Flay to the point that by the time you're in Naxx10 it's barely, if any, DPS increase to use it, and if it's not glyphed with 4pT7 don't even both. It should be reserved for the last few % on trash and the last 1% or so on bosses.

[Nezoia]

It's not worth it mana wise either.

Patchwerk seem easy mana wise compared to Thaddius... WTB new gear allready

[Arisen]

I stopped using SW ever since the talent patches before relese of te expansion.

Granted it can boost dps a little but with the changes to mind flay mechanics i found mana far more plentiful minus SW in rotation

[healme]

Err, I do have 3/3 Meditation. 12508 unbuffed mana, 14k buffed

You must have bad gear, i have just done heroics and have close to 17k mana.

[Worshaka]

No, not worth using SW anymore. And on most encounters the next month your gear won't be good enough to survive taking extra damage.

I can easy be in top 10 on damage without using it.

We're 4-5 trash packs away from Patchwerk, I'll let you know how it went in 15min time.

Update:

First wipe: 2504.3 dps, 8th on dps.

I'm now using SW here since we got no spare healing for dps'ers.

Update two:

Patchwerk dead, 12th on dps , 2443.6 dps.

Huge problem with mana, 2xShadowfiend, Dispersion and Inner Focus and I still had to wand 2-3 times.

Main reason for huge dps loss

Start casting SW... 1. it will help proc IMP ST which = mana, 2. it's higher DPM than MB which helps your mana.

[Nezoia]

Start casting SW... 1. it will help proc IMP ST which = mana, 2. it's higher DPM than MB which helps your mana.

Proccing IMP ST wouldn't be worth it before having alot more spirit , ie. full T7 or equal.

I only use it on the pull, as it gives 2 stacks of Shadow weaving, where all other spells give one.

[Worshaka]

Well, you're the one mentioning that you're going oom... SW will help solve that problem. In addition SW does increase dps slightly at around T7 gear as per simulationcraft data, it's not till later on when it causes a slight dps loss.

[Nezoia]

It won't solve anything, as the mana cost of using SW ain't turning itself in with 300 spirit. Neither would it crit often enough with 9% crit on my gear.

So it's useless untill we get better gear, and when we do it's useless because other spells are more efficient.

The backdraft is just a annoyance for the healers, so I wouldn't say there's any reason to use it at all.

[lsfreak]

You must have bad gear, i have just done heroics and have close to 17k mana.

Try full Sunwell gear. Better for raw damage than pretty much any heroics gear, worse for regen.

Edit: As for SWD being included for more mana, this is false. The increased uptime of IST isn't worth mentioning, and the vastly increased mana cost of SWD versus the nearly-equal damage of Mind Flay means it just plain isn't worth it. The sim showing SWD being an increase also assumed the glyph is being used, which for many of us it won't be.

[Nezoia]

Good point about the glyph, I never deep studied the theroycraft for it.

Glyph of Shadow, MF and SW:P seems way more efficient.

[Chi]

Good point about the glyph, I never deep studied the theroycraft for it.

Glyph of Shadow, MF and SW:P seems way more efficient.

imo the sw:d is way better than the shadow one. I mean 10 % of my spirit is like 50 spellpower i gain for 10 seconds ? - that is not noticeable.

And I don't understand why mana should be a problem in 25man. On patchwerk yesterday i used my pet twice but didn't even use dispersion.

I use SW in my rotation and push out 2.8-3k without flask yesterday on a full clear and came 2nd. There is hardly any boss with a dps lower than 2600.

Imo the sw:d crits on 6-8k are very nice to keep in and with the glyph for it, I use my inner focus on sw:d

btw gearlink:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...vencrest&n=Chi

[Nezoia]

imo the sw:d is way better than the shadow one. I mean 10 % of my spirit is like 50 spellpower i gain for 10 seconds ? - that is not noticeable.

Well, I don't use SW, so I saw no reason to have it.

I use SW on Malygos to proc Spirit Tap, but that's also a pretty lol fight (Talking Phase 2 here)

I use SW in my rotation and push out 2.8-3k without flask yesterday on a full clear and came 2nd. There is hardly any boss with a dps lower than 2600.

Err, if 3k is your second highest, you either got alot better gear than the others, or the others suck.

Our mages and hunters is around 4k+. And that's during a raid with mostly SWP+Heroic gear.

[Chi]

Well, I don't use SW, so I saw no reason to have it.

I use SW on Malygos to proc Spirit Tap, buh itt that's also a pretty lol fight (Talking Phase 2 here)
Err, if 3k is your second highest, you either got alot better gear than the others, or the others suck.

Our mages and hunters is around 4k+. And that's during a raid with mostly SWP+Heroic gear.

3k is average dps for an entire clear.

And since a lot of the fights in Naxx are without much movement, it doesn't take that much to tweak in the sw:d in a rotation - and from my testing it improves my dps so I'll just stick with it

[Kelesti]

Glyph of Shadow, MF and SW:P seems way more efficient.

Except that Glyph of Mind Flay does nothing whatsoever towards "efficiency" at all. Kthnx. Shadows, Pain, and Death, and deal with your 24 yard range.