super prot spec?

[Dutifulblade]

Im just wondering why people take Divine Guardian in their tank specs. Do they know something that I do not? When is a prot pally going to use bubble in a raid situation? Offtank talent at best... possibly something cool for arena holy (not that i know shit all about holy)

[Draco cracona]

it's good for OT situations, for example Illi, BB, kael, vashj, Solarian etc.

[Evereghalo]

You only need 1/2 imp. judge, a secnod point in it is only ever needed as filler to get to conviction. I'd possibly drop both guarded and JotJ for raids, depending on raid makeup, as most magic damage bosses won't be tanked by a tankadin, dropping the extras in crusade then sanctified. Crit is more threat overall than SotP, although SotP is more consistent threat, HotR and SotR are signifigantly more threat.

Most magic damage bosses are undead. = A lot more threat.

Also paladins HAVE the MOST damage mitigation for spell damage. Add it up with guarded by the light. Its more than warriors. We also have frost aura.

And while druid/warror threat is based on physical, our threat is still magic based. and armor is never an issue.

[Lumidar]

DK has the most sell damage mitigation but thanks for trying.

[Evereghalo]

DK has the most sell damage mitigation but thanks for trying.

Death knights have abilities that boost their spell damage reduction for set periods.

we have the best static spell damage reduction.

Paladins can get upto 18% static spell damage reduction. add the 2% from the meta gem and that is 20%

Plus we have an aura which will do Frost and Fire, so aside from nature damage it is comperable.

We also get Divine Protection, which is the exact same as icebound fort.

As for anti magic shell, it lasts 5 seconds.

5 seconds every, 1 min.

Or minus 18% static.

If the boss fight is 5mins long and uses a lot of magic on the tank. Then well, thats a wopping 25seconds with -75percent damage. I hope you time it right for that hard spell. Id rather have my macroed bubble and be immune to one single pyroblast like strike, than the pyroblast and subsequent hits.

Also paladins can use bubble to break any spell damage debuff that causes spell damage which for a DK, after 5 seconds full damage. On a paladin every tick is 18percent off. Because we have the same aura as DK unless the spell damage is nature.

Research your classes then come back.

They are avoiidance tanks with strong spell damage reduction.

DK - Avoidance tank with strong spell damage reduction

Pally - Mitigation tank with strong spell damage reduction

Druid - Avoidance tank (or was we will see) with strong melee damage reduction

Warrior - Mitigation tank with strong physical damage reduction (Higher armor, and critical block)

And they all have comperable aoe tanking abilities, and those with the best tend to have the lesser stam, and those with the weakest aoe tanking have most stam.


p.s. Forgot about Ardent Defender, if thats up then yea 30% less damage on that hard hitting spell that might just kill ya.

[zarondd]

Warrior - Def stance 10% * IDS 6% = 15.4% spell reduction + IRS -4% spell hit
+ Spell Reflect/10s + Interrupt (SB)/12s
+ SW -75% 10s/4min

Paladin - IRF 6% * BoS 3% + GbTL 6% + SoTT 3% = 17.9% spell reduction
+ Frost/Fire/Shadow Aura + Argent Defender -30%@hp<35% + interrupt HoJ/30s
+ DP - 50% 12s/4min

Death Knight (Frost/Unholy Anti-Magic Tank) - FP 6% + MS 5% = 10.7%
+ Spell resistance aura (Nat/Fir/Fro/Sha/Arc/Hol) FA + Interrupt MF/10s
+ AMS 100% 5s/min + BS -40% 4 hits/min + -50% IBF 12s/min
+ Silence 5s/2min + AMZ 75% variable/5min

So Evereghalo might be correct in that paladins have more passive mitigation, but I have high doubts that 2.5% over warriors will be better then spellreflect + shield bash interrupt/silence.

DKs are debatable, but since situational AD was brought into arguement by evereghalo, I believe that their fast interrupt and immunity 5s/min + 50% reduction 12s/min + 40% reduction (assuming 1.5 s hits) 6s/min and prismatic resistance aura (arc/hol/nat advantage) will reduce more damage in more encounter types then the passive 7.2% bonus paladins have over them...

[Furin]

Im just wondering why people take Divine Guardian in their tank specs. Do they know something that I do not? When is a prot pally going to use bubble in a raid situation? Offtank talent at best... possibly something cool for arena holy (not that i know shit all about holy)

i coulda swore it worked for Divine Protection also, hence me getting it. but it still isnt too bad, if shit hits the fan completely something good may come of it lol

[Evereghalo]

Warrior - Def stance 10% * IDS 6% = 15.4% spell reduction + IRS -4% spell hit
+ Spell Reflect/10s + Interrupt (SB)/12s
+ SW -75% 10s/4min

Paladin - IRF 6% * BoS 3% + GbTL 6% + SoTT 3% = 17.9% spell reduction
+ Frost/Fire/Shadow Aura + Argent Defender -30%@hp<35% + interrupt HoJ/30s
+ DP - 50% 12s/4min

Death Knight (Frost/Unholy Anti-Magic Tank) - FP 6% + MS 5% = 10.7%
+ Spell resistance aura (Nat/Fir/Fro/Sha/Arc/Hol) FA + Interrupt MF/10s
+ AMS 100% 5s/min + BS -40% 4 hits/min + -50% IBF 12s/min
+ Silence 5s/2min + AMZ 75% variable/5min

So Evereghalo might be correct in that paladins have more passive mitigation, but I have high doubts that 2.5% over warriors will be better then spellreflect + shield bash interrupt/silence.

DKs are debatable, but since situational AD was brought into arguement by evereghalo, I believe that their fast interrupt and immunity 5s/min + 50% reduction 12s/min + 40% reduction (assuming 1.5 s hits) 6s/min and prismatic resistance aura (arc/hol/nat advantage) will reduce more damage in more encounter types then the passive 7.2% bonus paladins have over them...

Warrior shield wall is 60perent for 12seconds.

Also you forgot to take into account Divine shield, and how it can be used on things like kaelthas pyroblast, or the mobs on the way to Solarian in TK big one time cast hits

[Lumidar]

Divine Shield is situational and not meant to be used in that way but we use it that way cus we can.

the DK skills ARE meant to be used that way and they can reduce ALOT of damage with Passive/Reactive Talents which you might have missed.
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49497
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50152

and no i didnt count the Auras for resists. Frost is binary and has no partial resists at all so i don't even count it. fire would be the only one and there weren't many fire bosses. (i think i used it for 2 fights only in TBC)

[wyrdone]

Also remember talented, HoJ is a spell interrupt now.

[zarondd]

Warrior shield wall is 60perent for 12seconds.

Also you forgot to take into account Divine shield, and how it can be used on things like kaelthas pyroblast, or the mobs on the way to Solarian in TK big one time cast hits

DP will give you forbearance, which will knock DS out of must applications if you don't waste DP CDs unless its perfectly timed.

I also purposely left out the fact about BoS castable on the other tanks, which makes Warrior passive mitigation is higher then pallies, and DKs so close that their actives easily overtake them.
In addition DK AMS glyph gives 100% magic reduction 10s/75s, which is by far better then DS 100% 12s/240s + forbearance /w melee aggro loss will ever be.

the DK skills ARE meant to be used that way and they can reduce ALOT of damage with Passive/Reactive Talents which you might have missed.
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49497
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50152

My shoddy Unholy/Frost anti-magic build to maximize spell tanking does not reach far enough for acclimation and cannot get into blood for spell deflection. I'm pretty convinced Unholy/Frost offers better magic tanking then Frost/Blood does.
This is problematic for talented comparison because DK talents are spread across 3 lines, unlike the neat little packages for the other 3 tanks, where we can guess 99% of talent distribution.

[lumnights]

Warning: Incoming really stupid question.

I just started tanking again and noticed the changes to DP... but, does it still wipe aggro like DS does? Timed 50% damage reduction is so hot, but not if I have to scrape all the mobs off my friends afterwards.

I only ask because I'm unwilling to put a group of otherwise innocent people in the way of that much harm. "Oh, so THAT's how that works! Don't worry, it's not too long of a walk, and I'll pay your repair bills!"

[DaveTheHunter]

A few things I'd like to comment on.

1. Seals of the Pure is more overall sustained TPS than the extra crit you can get down the ret tree. Do your research and you will find numerous forum posts showing the numbers. Besides, even if you still insist that the extra crit is better tps (regardless of the evidence otherwise), what do you need it for? I have MT'd every boss in the game successfully so far with realm firsts for Naxx and Obsidian Sanctum and I easily output 7-8k tps on every boss. I easily have double the tps of everyone else in the raid.

2. Judgements of the Just is very worthwhile. If you are MT and have a dps warrior in the group, you can't expect him to shift stances constantly just to keep up Tclap. If you are MT and have a prot warrior OT, again you can't expect him to always be right next to you keeping up that debuff (4 horsemen come to mind). Your only real viable option is to have a feral druid applying Infected Wounds, but even then if the first dps target on a boss fight isn't what you're MT'ing, then that's out as well. Just get JotJ. You'll be happy you did. (Yes, it works on ALL raid bosses.)

3. Do your raid a favor and take Kings. I raid with a ret pally AND a holy pally, BOTH with kings. I still have it and I use it. The only time, imo, that you wouldn't need it for the flexibility is if there's 4 pallies in the raid.

4. Benediction is absolutely useless in a raid environment unless you're OT and have to spend a lot of time doing what dps you can. No MT should have it because you do not need it.

5. As many others have said, 1/2 Imp. Judgements is all you need to maintain an optimal rotation.

6. Reckoning is useless. The extra white dmg tps and dps it provides is insignificant. If you're using Righteousness instead of Corruption/Vengeance.... Ur doing it wrong. (As a side note, get the Glyph of Seal of Vengeance, 10 expertise is so OP.)

I'm at work currently so can't post my spec cause MMO Champion's doesn't work for me and i am limited to the sites i can go to, but just armory me if you'd like. Lumenos on Dentarg.

[Draco cracona]

Lumenos - I've not actually seen any numbers about SotP v conviction taking into account the seal nerfs (still levelling so can't test it well myself as nothing gives me the regen needed for 969), apart from that and that reckoning is useful for AoE application of SoV, damn good post. You got any numbers about how much of your TPS SoV, JoV, HotR and SotR are?

[Lumidar]

your top threat generating skills are Judgements, hammer of the righteous and shield of the righteousness as of 3.0.3 and the Seals nerf. All of these abilities can crit.

Seals of the Pure only increases the Judgement from the list above.

seals are minimal bonus threat since 3.0.3 just like concecration is not used alot anymore.

so PLEASE explain to me how Seals of the Pure is more threat than crit.

[Draco cracona]

Warning: Incoming really stupid question.

I just started tanking again and noticed the changes to DP... but, does it still wipe aggro like DS does? Timed 50% damage reduction is so hot, but not if I have to scrape all the mobs off my friends afterwards.

I only ask because I'm unwilling to put a group of otherwise innocent people in the way of that much harm. "Oh, so THAT's how that works! Don't worry, it's not too long of a walk, and I'll pay your repair bills!"

The mobs' attacks will still damage you, thus it does not remove you temporarily from the boss' threat meter, else it's a useless ability.

[wyrdone]

Lumenos, BoSanct > Kings for any tanking class. It's not the mana return, it;s the 3% additional dmg reduction.

[Offhand]

Clever way to throw out a crap spec and have everyone create a good one for you. :P

Not a very clever way to troll however...

[FurioRing]

This is my current tankadin spec.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=011218040502

While I know people do not like Divine Guardian, it provides a nice source of mitigation as a raid wide mini shield wall. In 25s, this works well with a 2 tank synergy. In 5s, you have to be damn careful and know when to use it. ie, Heroic Lightning halls. I can reliably hit the my divine shield macro to soak 30% of the hard hit and the macro cancels the aura before he is able to get into melee range of anyone else in the party. This prevents about 15k damage in fights like this if you use it properly.

Improved CDs on Hammer are extremely useful in 5s/10s as a form of damage mitigation.

Improved crit rate? Not needed imo. I am usually pushing 6-7k TPS threat in mixed SWP 70s/ Kara 80s (10s) gear. If I have a rogue or hunter around my threat is an insignificant topic.

Imp CDs on Judgement. 2/2 here is suggested. Does it mess with rotations? Sure, but your rotation is much more fluid in undead infested areas.

Holy shield- Top Priority
HotR- Second
Shield Slam- just call it what it really is
Judgement-

Squeeze in Concecrate (plus a 2second glyph to keep it outside that tight 8second window) whenever you can. You usually miss one spell every 3rd rotation because you have to reapply Sacred Shield for the bonus 500 HP every 6seconds.

[Mistrblank]

A few things I'd like to comment on.

1. Seals of the Pure is more overall sustained TPS than the extra crit you can get down the ret tree. Do your research and you will find numerous forum posts showing the numbers. Besides, even if you still insist that the extra crit is better tps (regardless of the evidence otherwise), what do you need it for? I have MT'd every boss in the game successfully so far with realm firsts for Naxx and Obsidian Sanctum and I easily output 7-8k tps on every boss. I easily have double the tps of everyone else in the raid.

2. Judgements of the Just is very worthwhile. If you are MT and have a dps warrior in the group, you can't expect him to shift stances constantly just to keep up Tclap. If you are MT and have a prot warrior OT, again you can't expect him to always be right next to you keeping up that debuff (4 horsemen come to mind). Your only real viable option is to have a feral druid applying Infected Wounds, but even then if the first dps target on a boss fight isn't what you're MT'ing, then that's out as well. Just get JotJ. You'll be happy you did. (Yes, it works on ALL raid bosses.)

3. Do your raid a favor and take Kings. I raid with a ret pally AND a holy pally, BOTH with kings. I still have it and I use it. The only time, imo, that you wouldn't need it for the flexibility is if there's 4 pallies in the raid.

4. Benediction is absolutely useless in a raid environment unless you're OT and have to spend a lot of time doing what dps you can. No MT should have it because you do not need it.

5. As many others have said, 1/2 Imp. Judgements is all you need to maintain an optimal rotation.

6. Reckoning is useless. The extra white dmg tps and dps it provides is insignificant. If you're using Righteousness instead of Corruption/Vengeance.... Ur doing it wrong. (As a side note, get the Glyph of Seal of Vengeance, 10 expertise is so OP.)

I'm at work currently so can't post my spec cause MMO Champion's doesn't work for me and i am limited to the sites i can go to, but just armory me if you'd like. Lumenos on Dentarg.

Quoted for emphasis since you seem to be the ONLY person that knows what they're talking about in this thread.