Upcoming AE DPS and Paladin changes

[Boubouille]

Upcoming AE DPS Changes

There is definitely a lot of AE (area effect damage) going on in World of Warcraft dungeon runs at the moment. We’re not too worried about it for now – on the contrary it’s nice to see so many people doing the level-up dungeons on the way to level 80. If we find that AE tank + AE damage strategy (with no sheeping, sapping or other crowd control) is the only way people are running heroics and raids, then we’ll probably make some changes, but for now we’re content to just see what happens.

Having said all that, we feel like a few groups are being left out of the AE fun, which makes them of less utility in the 5-player dungeons. We aren’t able to provide a lot of details yet, but here are some upcoming changes we’re making.

• Shaman – we are removing the threat component from Fire Nova Totem and Magma Totem and increasing the damage from Magma Totem. This should provide the Elemental shamans in particular with some formidable AE.
• Rogue – we are removing the cooldown from Fan of Knives and adjusting the damage calculation slightly to make daggers more useful for this ability.
• Druid – we are adding Swipe (Cat) as a baseline ability.

As is the case with most multi-target abilities, these three should be something you want to use when faced with groups, but never against single targets. Fan of Knives and Swipe, for example, don’t grant combo points so they should never be a core part of the rotation against single targets (like most bosses).

These changes will be available in the next minor content update, so keep an eye out for the next PTR push.

He replied later on this post about the shaman changes.

We might still do an AE spell for Elemental as well, but that is further down the road. Let me be clear that shamans are intended to be a totem-using class. I would not expect a lot of changes that let you opt out of using totems. Instead we want to make them fun, easy and worth the effort. We did consider the problem of having to run up to AE, but this is what several specs do already -- mages to use Arcane Explosion for example. We talked to a lot of Elemental shamans who thought it wouldn't be a problem. Also remember than when a mage channels Blizzard, that is all she is doing. Totems do damage in addition to your spells.

Our goal is not to make every spec in the game awesome at AE damage. Our goal is to give you a button you can push to contribute in some way. We think Elemental shamans need to fill this role more than the rogues or Feral druids however, since they tend to compete for slots more against warlocks and mages, who have excellent AE. Our goal is for Elemental to be there as well. This may not get them there 100%, but it's a good improvement over nearly 0% which is where they stand today.

As far as whether you can AE too much, as I said, that is something we're keeping an eye on. Even Naxx is considered an entry-level raid and not the kind of place that requires Sunwell (or even Black Temple) -level coordination. For now it's nice to see so many players with the option to run 5-player instances and entry level raids. I would not expect the strategy in Ulduar and Icecrown to be "I'll Swipe while you guys Blizzard. Volley and Hurricane down all the trash."

Consolidated list of upcoming Paladin changes

We have already announced or suggested all of these changes would be forthcoming in the next minor content patch. I thought I would list them all in one place for ease of use.

• Divine Shield: Penalty changed so that all damage done is reduced by 50% instead of a attack speed penalty.
• Divine Protection no longer causes an attack penalty. Divine Shield's penalty was changed to 50% less damage done by the paladin.
• Sacred Duty: This Protection talent no longer affects the attack penalty of Divine Shield and Divine Protection, but grants additional bonus Stamina.
• Avenging Wrath, Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Hand of Protection have a shared, 30-second cooldown. The Forbearance effect is no longer triggered by Avenging Wrath.
• Judgement of Wisdom now returns a percentage of base mana instead of a percentage of max mana.
• All mana drain effects now return a percentage of max enemy mana (making mana drains less punishing to paladins and other characters without large mana pools.)
• Judgements of the Pure: This Holy talent now increases the damage done by Seals and Judgements.
• All paladins receive a single-target taunt (name TBD) as a base ability.

He also made another post here to clarify the changes on mana drains

Since this seems confusing:

Before:
Drain Mana on a mage with 15,000 mana drains 2500 mana (16% of their mana)
Drain Mana on a paladin with 5000 mana drains 2500 mana (50% of their mana)

After:
Drain Mana on a mage with 15,000 mana drains 3000 mana (20% of their mana)
Drain Mana on a paladin with 5000 mana drains 1000 mana (20% of their mana)

Those are not real numbers -- just indicating the concept of what the change will do.

[Dimelos]

Consolidated list of upcoming Paladin changes

We have already announced or suggested all of these changes would be forthcoming in the next minor content patch. I thought I would list them all in one place for ease of use.

• Divine Shield: Penalty changed so that all damage done is reduced by 50% instead of a attack speed penalty.
• Divine Protection no longer causes an attack penalty. Divine Shield's penalty was changed to 50% less damage done by the paladin.
• Sacred Duty: This Protection talent no longer affects the attack penalty of Divine Shield and Divine Protection, but grants additional bonus Stamina.
• Avenging Wrath, Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Hand of Protection have a shared, 30-second cooldown. The Forbearance effect is no longer triggered by Avenging Wrath.
• Judgement of Wisdom now returns a percentage of base mana instead of a percentage of max mana.
• All mana drain effects now return a percentage of max enemy mana (making mana drains less punishing to paladins and other characters without large mana pools.)
• Judgements of the Pure: This Holy talent now increases the damage done by Seals and Judgements.
• All paladins receive a single-target taunt (name TBD) as a base ability.

As a tankadin, I'm pretty happy with those changes. Especially the single target taunt.

[ActualFantasy]

Another "FIX" for the ret pallies, which at the same time nerfs the holy paladins.

Yay Blizzard.

When i think on it.. the class that was already most vulnerable to CC and MAna Burns now gets it even harder due to the higher amount of mana lost to a burn.

[Dimelos]

Another "FIX" for the ret pallies, which at the same time nerfs the holy paladins.

Yay Blizzard.

When i think on it.. the class that was already most vulnerable to CC and MAna Burns now gets it even harder due to the higher amount of mana lost to a burn.

I don't see how they have a larger amount of mana to lose... maybe I'm missing something.

[LavaDuck]

You cant have it all

[skojten]

yay a swipe for kittys! kinda makes sense that a cat can hit several targets at the same time with our pointy claws.

[fibre]

If we find that AE tank + AE damage strategy (with no sheeping, sapping or other crowd control) is the only way people are running heroics and raids, then we’ll probably make some changes

Here's a better idea. Improve other classes CC.

Too many people exclusively look for sheeping when looking for CC. That is lame. Give Hunters a "shootable net", something that they can use to trap from a distance. Make Priest's "Mind-Control" more reliable, allow the Priest to be bubbled, or dispered, and unattackable during MC. I see Hunters turned down ALL TO OFTEN for CC positions, and the Priest's Mind-Control almost entirely ignored in endgame content.

[Tzeendhaos]

Wtf with rogues ? Fan of knives interrupt with a 2 point combat talent... Does that mean they have an interruption with no cooldown ? That doesn't make any sense ! Did GC think about the poor casters who meet a combat dps ?

(very strange that they didn't see that issue...)

[Blackwolfe]

Judgement of Wisdom now returns a percentage of base mana instead of a percentage of max mana.

Correct me if Im wrong.. doesnt this hurt holy paladins the most and does close to nothing to retribution and protection paladins? That is, unless the percentage is upped.

Sacred Duty: This Protection talent no longer affects the attack penalty of Divine Shield and Divine Protection, but grants additional bonus Stamina.

So.. this means sacred duty does absolutely nothing apart from the lowered cooldown and stamina increase?? Because prot paladins are op in pvp.. right?

[Skiball]

lol yet another nerf. Thank you to the cult for causing blizzard to push Ret another step into obscurity......again.

So much for that whole "we like the way Ret is going...." stuff. That is, untill the cult starts bitching. Keep sticking your foot in your mouth blizzard as you bend over and take your pants off for the mob again.

[Dimelos]

Correct me if Im wrong.. doesnt this hurt holy paladins the most and does close to nothing to retribution and protection paladins? That is, unless the percentage is upped.

Ahh... my bad. I skipped over that fix when I read through the changes. That does hurt holy paladins.

[Clasifyd]

So is the 'Grants addition stamina' bit in Sacred Duty beyond the 6% it currently yields, or am I reading that wrong?

[Jalek]

Elemental don't want to use a fire totem for AoE, our 41 talent point spell is a fire totem. I never really had issues in Hyjal on trash as CL is a pretty good AoE spell (as long as you switch targets often or you will get aggro), this is a buff for Enhance as far as I can see. Thunderstorm is terrible for AoE due to the knockback.

[Mysmere]

save it...

the previous nerfs to ret were laughable, even forums were saying it, i even saw a vid about a paladin laughing his ass off with the ret nerfs and owning in bgs and arenas

i wanna see you 3 shot someone now retlol!

ok....i'll still 3 shot you =/

[Iselian]

Holy pallys are possibly more susceptible to mana burns.
So are mages, warlocks, priests, two specs of druids, hunters (int on the gear, remember?), and shaman. Everyone's hit by this.

I wouldn't be surprised if anti-mana draining talents were put in, soon. Just for the PvP sake.


And everything else is a Ret fix (the damage reduction on bubble). I'd guess that the Judgement of Wisdom change was done because not only holy paladins, but any mana class (mages, warlocks, shaman, and so on) were gaining too much mana from the judgement. It's not a change to ret/prot at all, since they work on base mana.

Holy should be relatively unaffected; their time in instances is spent healing, not dpsing a judged mob for mana back. While solo'ing/questing they'll see a change in mana regen, assuming they judged wisdom. Note that Seal of Wisdom is unaffected.


Oh, and yay for Holy re-gaining some dps, and prot gaining stamina -and- a single target taunt! Huge news there, now we don't have to rely on the gimmicky Righteous Defense.

So is the 'Grants addition stamina' bit in Sacred Duty beyond the 6% it currently yields, or am I reading that wrong?

It should be additional, beyond the current 6%. I'd guestimate 8% or 10% will be the new talent.

[powercleans]

"Our goal is not to make every spec in the game awesome at AE damage." - Blizz

This kind of statement sucks.

Especially..with a lot of people complaining that wotlk is in EZ-mode.

When I started playing vanilla wow.. AE was not created equal.

The whole theme "bring the player [to raids], not the toon" is a slippery slope.

[Skwiz]

Elemental don't want to use a fire totem for AoE, our 41 talent point spell is a fire totem. I never really had issues in Hyjal on trash as CL is a pretty good AoE spell (as long as you switch targets often or you will get aggro), this is a buff for Enhance as far as I can see. Thunderstorm is terrible for AoE due to the knockback.

I agree, you have to take into account the loss of  280 spell power and 3% crit to each member of the the party/raid, which more than offsets any damage caused by a magma totem, even a buffed one.  The only time it would be worthwhile would be in a melee heavy 5 man group.

[Arcano]

save it...

the previous nerfs to ret were laughable, even forums were saying it, i even saw a vid about a paladin laughing his ass off with the ret nerfs and owning in bgs and arenas

i wanna see you 3 shot someone now retlol!

and you get somethig from falmming others?

[Raspyn]

Is it just me, or does a 30 second shared cooldown for Avenging Wrath and Divine Shield seem ridiculouly short?

12 seconds of immunity every 30 seconds?

... or am I just reading this wrong. Does Divine Shield still have a 5 minute cooldown, but now triggers a 30 second cooldown on Avenging Wrath, when used? I suppose this would make more sense.

[heerobya]

The whole theme "bring the player [to raids], not the toon" is a slippery slope.

And the whole theme "let's not bring the player because he *gasp* actually enjoys the spec he plays" is worse?

Only short sighted people worried about "their" spot in raid due to a now non-existent nitch are troubled by this.

The idea is, "ok what do we need for the raid, two tanks, three heals, five dps? What do we have online... oh perfect let's do it."

Rather then "oh crap Larry the Destruction Warlock isn't on tonight, guess the other nine/twenty-four of us have to stick our thumbs up our @$$."