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  1. #1

    FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    After a relatively nasty Culling of Stratholme, my tank and I are doing some introspection on our specs and gear, which may be a tad unnecessary.

    I should explain that we went in at 78 and thus encountered crushing blows on Epoch and Mal'ganis, which were unpleasant to say the least.

    I've been playing as Disc for the xpac, mostly because my GS build couldn't have Med in it at 70 and the lack of combat mp5 was abominable. Plus a change from CoH spec was nice.

    Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ong&n=Vidarius
    This spec may lack some of the toys of a usual disc spec, but it has most of the needed and useful bits in Holy that you can get while still speccing for Penance

    What I found is that with so much of disc's functional healing tied up in instant casts there is very little ability to play with the Five Second Rule and allow my out of combat regen to tick. Perhaps I'm "doin it rong" and shield, renew, ProM and rolling greaters while using Penance as an oh shit button is bad way to go about it.

    Self-buffed I have about 210 combat regen and I found mana to be suffering in the prolonged and/or larger pulls. I realize that most of my gear has tons of spirit on it as opposed to straight mp5.

    Should I attempt to scrounge for gear that has greater combat regen even if it is a drop in ooc regen? I realize that I'm not rocking tons of new instance gear, the pugs have been bad and we've mostly been duo-questing.

    I guess the bigger question is, does Disc suffer due to the inability to play with the FSR? Or is it a failing on my part of not seeing some nuance in the disc healing arsenal? I feel now that a med/GS build would give me more throughput and versatility than I have now and allow me to use the FSR to my advantage. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

  2. #2

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    I suppose a lot of you think I'm asking a dumb question, I realize that using the FSR is nearly impossible as Disc. My question is whether it's a handicap.

    I'll put it more succinctly, what methods/ gearing strategies are most helpful for maintaining a Discipline mana pool?

    This is what I understand gear-wise:

    Crit increases the chance of applying Aegis which causes [Rapture] and decreases necessary mana input

    Int increases crit as well as the mana pool which Rapture delivers mana based upon.

    Mp5 will give combat regen and I wonder if in the case of meditation it doesn't provide 1.3 Mp5 per gear Mp5 because it also increases the total ooc regen which 30% is then assessed and given as combat regen over again.

    Haste would indirectly increase rate of mana return, but not the amount.

    Spirit only really gives 30% of it's value being that FSR doesn't function well for Disc

    This is what I understand methods-wise:

    Penance returns 3 rapture procs

    Shield and Aegis provide streams of mana via rapture

    Flash > Greater in respect to Rapture return / mana cost, but is it actually mana per heal efficient after rapture is factored in?

    SO, that's what I understand, anyone catch something I didn't? Or am I misinformed on one of the above premises?

    Edit: I accidentally wrote grace when I meant rapture when discussing crit, correction in bold

  3. #3

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    Disc and Holy are vastly different specs and game-styles. With disc you want to cast all the time, practically spam healing to proc aegis and get mana back (and to keep grace up). You also want to flash heal, PoM and bubble the people you're healing.

    Anyway, to cut it short: I ran disc with my older holy gear and with holy style of play and it sucked, I went oom rather fast. Using gheals, renews and PoM when available turned out utterly wrong.

    I went with lots of int and crit stacked (I'm at 19% crit, 2.3K spell power / 290 mana regen in combat, 20K mana) and I can say I don't have to drink once during a 5 man run. PoM, pws + penance before the initial pull and then just stand back relaxed, use fheal for damage between 4-6K, penance to fill the other huge damage and pws + gheal combo to pull off higher heal amounts when needed.

    Aegis procs every now and then, it's really hard to go oom with a bit higher gear level. So basically what you said is all true.
    Hunt crit / int / spellpower. Feel free to ignore spirit in favor of int and yea - flash heal is now more effective mana-wise compared to gheal. FSR - out of the question for disc.

  4. #4

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    I play as a Disc priest here is my spec

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbhhxtrxzicMtfxzc

    I dont have mana issue. and im not casting all the time. yes if i want to keep grace up i need to cast alot. but with improve bubble and renew no big issuse. hit them with flash heal and your good

    With huge AOE and no CoH it very tough Nova just doesnt cut it but i can bubble alot.

    Base Mana reg 490/177 INT 601 Spirit 533 Mana 12100 and crit Holy 14.4% and SP is 1040 unbuffed

    I also did alot of reading and found that

    http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t35208-w...v3_0_progress/

    help me out a lot

  5. #5

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    Very helpful, thank you, my question is this now:

    Where is your Mp5 coming from?

    Is it mostly straight Mp5 on the gear you're getting or is it mostly a combination of Int and Spr being translated via Meditation?

    Also, I figure I'll want the glyph of PW:S, should I drop the glyph of renew or the glyph of dispel? I figure the third would be the glyph of flash heal.

  6. #6

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    I've started gearing towards Intellect and critical strike rating and it's helped a lot. I'm only at about 15% crit and 14k mana @ level 76, but I do okay in any instance I need to heal.

    For Disc, use the conversion: 5 Spirit = 2mp5

    For end of 25 man Naxx, the EJ posts said to shoot for (raid buffed):
    2600 spellpower
    25% crit
    10% haste
    500 mp5 I5SR

    I'm probably going to focus a lot on crit, and try to maintain my crit rate at 20% or so, then focus heavily on Intellect and critical strike gear. I'll worry about spellpower and haste later, just take the spellpower gear as it comes along. Then I'll just choose Spirit versus mp5 using the above formula.

    So my stats I want to shoot for at 80 while gearing up for raiding are similar to syanid's:
    2k spellpower
    20% crit
    300 mp5 I5SR
    20k mana

    For PvP, I'll be stacking as much Resilience and stamina as I can find, simple as that.

  7. #7

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keelie

    So my stats I want to shoot for at 80 while gearing up for raiding are similar to syanid's:
    2k spellpower
    20% crit
    300 mp5 I5SR
    20k mana
    you will see for yourself that there's manapool barrier on 18000 mana just like there was the 11000 one on BC. Yes i have fulfilled (selfbuffed) 2100 spellpower 19.9% crit and 280 mp5 already but my mana is stuck on 18200.

    Arduroc, combat mana regeneration for disc priest comes neither from mp5 on gear nor from int/spi and meditation. it's coming from healing done through Rapture.

    Feel free to PM me about any question you might have regarding LoL.
    Holy paladin

  8. #8

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    I dont think we'll be stuck at 18k mana atm, i am at 18.4k mana and i'm in green/blue gear only.

    over 20k mana is perfectly doable, it will depend on your gemming/enchanting choices though.

  9. #9

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by thoukaia
    Arduroc, combat mana regeneration for disc priest comes neither from mp5 on gear nor from int/spi and meditation. it's coming from healing done through Rapture.
    Well of course, I was referring to "while casting regen" otherwise known as combat regen.

    You say you have 280 mp5, I'm assuming that's casting regen otherwise you wouldn't mention it. What is it coming from? Mp5 laden gear or are you just depending on the int/spr conversion from meditation?

    I guess I'll clarify again: do you shoot for gear with Mp5 on it? Or do you not worry about it and let Med do the work for you?

  10. #10
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    You should be able to do FSR in 5mans easily as Disciplin. Have you any addons for it installed?

    Pitbull got a "Spark" module that makes it easy. You won't be able to do it on bosses, but shouldn't be a problem on trash.

    The few times I had to heal as shadowpriest, I ended up with shield+pom+renew and then I could fine do a FSR , actually two, before next PoM was ready.

  11. #11

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    As shadow you're attempting to heal like a holy priest, so you use the FSR to your advantage.

    As disc, FSR is relatively out of the question, and I'm not talking about the easy pulls. I'm talking about the "Holy Monkey Jesus my tank got crushed for 7k twice while I was CC'd by the boss" fights or the "Oh My God did the jackass DPS just pull 9 elites while the others are drinking?" fights.

    Note: The crushings were in Culling of strat at 78, because Mal'ganis and Epoch are 82, which we survived, although I did suffer a major coronary event.

  12. #12

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    I started playing around with the disc build earlier this week, and realized that I read rapture wrong. Since it seems like I wasn't the only one, let me share my findings. Rapture gives mana up to 2.5%. This means that each of the spells listed can provide at most 2.5% depending on the amount healed or absorbed. From my preliminary tests it seems that 9000 healing gets you the full 2.5% return. I am planning on using a warlock friend to do more thorough tests to get an exact amount (since hellfire is an easy source of damage that can be controlled). Since rapture works like this, flash heal should not be getting significantly better returns than greater heal. That is not to say it is not the case, because I can think of some scenarios in which flash heal will benefit more. Once I have better numbers, I will post the results.

  13. #13
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    As the "cookie cutter" disc spec, GH is nearly unusable if you are Discipline. Trust me on this one, after nearly a month of testing at 80.

    For me, it's cost is over 1200 mana, it's casting time (with only 2/5 Divine Fury) is 2.58 seconds. Flash Heal costs half as much, has a 1.33 second cast time, and so for discipline is more mana efficient (because more Aegis procs = more mama return). However, after a shield, GH's cast time becomes more around 2.17 seconds (I think maybe less, I can't remember exact. I've gotten it as low as 1.98, but since then have lost a little haste). After a shield, GH is a great emergency tool if Penance is on CD. If Penance is up though, you should still use Penance. It heals for as much (and in most cases more) than a Greater Heal and takes way less casting time to use.

    As for Oo5sr, if you are disc odds are you won't see it often since you will be MT healing in raids primarily. However, your mana returns from Rapture should be good enough to help you sustain lengthy amounts of cast time.

  14. #14
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arduroc
    As shadow you're attempting to heal like a holy priest, so you use the FSR to your advantage.

    As disc, FSR is relatively out of the question, and I'm not talking about the easy pulls. I'm talking about the "Holy Monkey Jesus my tank got crushed for 7k twice while I was CC'd by the boss" fights or the "Oh My God did the jackass DPS just pull 9 elites while the others are drinking?" fights.

    Note: The crushings were in Culling of strat at 78, because Mal'ganis and Epoch are 82, which we survived, although I did suffer a major coronary event.
    In those pulls no normal healer use FSR. They just spam heal

  15. #15
    Mechagnome
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    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    Another useful disc post, at this rate we'll get a reputation for being reasonable!

    Healing as disc is now a totally different ballgame to healing as Holy, as most people are already aware.

    Nezoia is bang on that 5 mans 5SR is pretty easy to maintain, shield + PoM goes a really long way with a decent tank. Remember shield absorbion happens after all other mitigation, so the better geared the tank (and the better at using the right abilities) the longer shield will hold.

    In raids I don't even think about the 5SR because fundamentally I'm healing almost like a holyadin, small and consistent to keep Grace and Aegis up and because it sees a better return from Rapture.

    Mana regen will scale exponentially with intel and crit. Intel because it's % mana returned and not % base mana, and additionally to make the best use of the replenishment buff that your raid will likely have ticking. Crit because the return from Aegis absorbs is nice and the more crit so the more aegis procs, and the more aegis procs the less healing required.

    The only real problem is that Aegis absorbs a % healed, which would lean towards GH crits as the most effective method, but we all know GH really blows for disc. FH crits aren't going to produce the same aegis, but I suppose if you cast twice as often you should get twice as many aegis procs so it all works out in the end (please noone use an algebra equation to prove me wrong!!). If you're struggling in the early days, remember PI. Just tell the mages that the 20% mana reduction for you is far more important than their epeen!

    I guess in summary the 5SR is not going to be for disc what it is for holy outside of 5 mans. Once you're raiding you'll be looking to Rapture for mana. And if a holy priest teases you about it, cast penance on him and do /smug-grin




    Armory Link
    Life's like a salmon swimming upstream - Hard work, and sometimes you get eaten by bears.

  16. #16

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    I would point out that while PI can be used on yourself, it's more fun to be used as a "kill the jerk" tool.

    I dunno about you, but when I spec for PI it's with the full intention of PIing that mage (or whatever) that starts .1 second after the tank and threatens to pull aggro the entire fight.

    Even though responsible DPS are actually doing more damage, that one guy just has to be fighting the tank for aggro the whole way. This is my way of letting him "win." Although I would say in the end that I am the one winning.

  17. #17

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arduroc
    I dunno about you, but when I spec for PI it's with the full intention of PIing that mage (or whatever) that starts .1 second after the tank and threatens to pull aggro the entire fight.
    thats just mean.

    anyway u shouldnt be wasting PI on a mage/warlock at all since u never know when the melees decide to stay all the way through boss' whirlwind (the case where u need pi+inner focus+spam prayer of healing)

    however as you progress you will notice that most fights are DPS benchmarks, i tried Patchwerk for first time tonight and trust me, the raid needs an average 1700 dps which is very hard to manage with people in t6 and 75 blues, so PI on mages/locks is needed.

    Feel free to PM me about any question you might have regarding LoL.
    Holy paladin

  18. #18

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    Oh sure, PI is a good raid tool, set recount to current fight and find the spell DPS that's highest. BUT that doesn't mean it can't also be used to screw around in a casual setting.

    Now, since it seems from the answers I'm getting that Mp5 is more something that just happens, as opposed as something to hunt out gear wise.

    So, are there any huge must haves for Disc priests in the way of gear? Some item (like our old scarab) that you couldn't live without pre-raids?

  19. #19

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    the most usefull piece of gear for out of combat regen is called "water". you should try it sometime
    People who spam one button aren't noobs, they are just ahead of the curve, because at some point the game will be just that easy.

  20. #20

    Re: FSR: Does it exist for Disc?

    I already explained, out of combat regen does not refer to regeneration out of combat explicitly, it refers to regen that functions like one is out of combat 5 seconds after casting a spell that costs mana.

    Thus we refer to it as also casting and not casting instead of combat and non-combat. Scroll up before you post please. We know what water is. >.<

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