noob paladin questions/help

[pimp305]

Ok so i have leveled my main to 80 already and was going to level my brothers paladin to 80 while he is overseas. I have very very limted experiance playing pally. I have mainly played casters lock and priest. So im looking for some guidance.

Here is what im looking to do. Obvsiouly want to level to 70-80. Quickly as possible. I have been told by friends to level Ret and get a two hander. I would like some recommendations on what I should spec and what gear and stats should be priorities. Also once I decide on a spec what rotations should i use for soloing and possibly in 5 mans.

I see one problem maybe. The toon is geared for arena healing. Not sure if that matters. There is oathkeeper in the bank LOL that was the 2 hander I was going to use until I find a replacement.

Also If there is a guide or site that I can read up as well that is up to date that anyone knows of would be great help as well.

Thank you in advance.

[Hipponater]

Honestly, if you are pretty geared and holy you may be able to just instance level to 80 if you wish, picking up extra gear as its passed on to build a ret set.

Or try some of the starting quests as they'll give some rewards that could help you dps mobs down as ret (new 2h, lots of gear).

As for a spec, i can't help much, as I don't play a pally and only know how to tank on one =P

[Chmur]

I disagree with above said, instancing is slow way to go (maybe due to less populated server my side though) and what is lacking is good tanks, not healers (server issue again?). However, I vouch so against leveling as Holy, because you pretty much hit like wet handkerchief. It's very painful and slow grind. We had exactly this same discussion on EJ yesterday, so I will repost my answer here:

Holy is pretty much dead for leveling, at least that's what my holy friends say. Both Ret and Prot are fast levelers, the only difference is in the way they do it. I entered zone and made it by hit&run tactics, facemelting everything, soloing 3 men quests (BT gear). My protection friend entered the same zone, and steadily steamrolled through. I saw him while he were partied, his hitpoints were just not dropping down at all. He was able to solo same things as I did, sligtly bigger problems witms with casters, but owned me on melee elites (T5/ZA/2.4 badge gear). So the only question here is if you want to stare at 3.5+swing timer and see big crits, or move slowly through hundreds of mobs and see them crush on your armor.

Now a bit more seriously - prot will kill slower, but your gear is more suitable for it imho. I suggest you to hit Northrend as prot in your holy gear (or some prot offspec pieces you have gathered) and gather green ret gear there. Try out ret when you are ready, if you don't like prot way. Decide and go level. Hope this personal isight helped. Good luck!

Borean Tundra has some ret libram somewhere as quest reward btw...


As arena healer, you should have high stamina and resilience gear, giving you no avoidance, but high crit supression. I really think good way to go is to hit prot, at least the first zone and then change to ret to see if you like it more.

Regarding oathkeeper, sell it. I think any entry level green will be better. Maybe worth resocketing your current gear for STR, uncommon Northrend gems come for bargain prices really.

[Avokaado]

And if you decide to go retri, here's an example spec for you:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=120900050204
edit: oh, and I picked the right glyphs for you too.

It's a steady questing spec. Not that suitable fighting multiple mobs, but that's what I have been using with no problems at all. When getting levels and new points, put them on vindication, imp ret aura and swift retribution.

Stats: Strength > crit > hit > ap > expertise, armor penetration etc. Agility is always nice too and stamina is just coming along with everything else. You don't need int, mp5 or anything castery.

Rotation should be judgement of light -> divine storm -> crusader strike and maybe concentration. Use divine plea every minute, but remember to heal first.

When you hit 74 get Venture Co. Libram of Retribution (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38362) asap, from grizzly hills and when you hit 75 get De-Raged Waraxe (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41816) from ring of blood type of quest in Zul'Drak.

I suggest you do all quests in HF -> BorT -> DB and you should be lvl 77 at that point.

[Chmur]

And if you decide to go retri, here's an example spec for you:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=120900050204
edit: oh, and I picked the right glyphs for you too.

I beg to differ, Judgement, Consec and CS is more optimal glyphing for leveling

It's a steady questing spec. Not that suitable fighting multiple mobs, but that's what I have been using with no problems at all. When getting levels and new points, put them on vindication, imp ret aura and swift retribution.

It's cookie cutter spec, your only limit is your gear. This spec in BT gear was able to kill 10 mobs at once (AW up) and walk off with 50% hp, solo every 2 man and most of 3 mans. Vindication is no go imho. BoK serves you better, especialy when pushing yoursel into instance groups. Use BoM for leveling though. Even though I took Swift ret prior to imp ret aura, I'd take imp ret aura now first, seeing most of mobs are melee types.

Stats: Strength > crit > hit > ap > expertise, armor penetration etc. Agility is always nice too and stamina is just coming along with everything else. You don't need int, mp5 or anything castery.

STR -> HIT -> EXP -> CRIT -> AGI -> AP -> ArP
*bolded stats to reasonable extent. No need for 100% hit chance if you hit like sissy and don't crit

Rotation should be judgement of light -> divine storm -> crusader strike and maybe concentration. Use divine plea every minute, but remember to heal first.

Judgement -> CS -> DS, DS is prioritized to CS bordering on 2+ mob situation. Rotating Judgements is good way to go - ie one cd JoL, other cd JoW, to replenish both at very fast rate.

[Avokaado]

I beg to differ, Judgement, Consec and CS is more optimal glyphing for leveling

No. Why would you need CS when you aren't going oom anyways? And conc is the third glyph to choose. Judg and hammer first. You will be using hammer A LOT when leveling, because when leveling you aren't constantly fighting a mob, you will be running a lot -> time for hammer CD reset.

It's cookie cutter spec, your only limit is your gear. This spec in BT gear was able to kill 10 mobs at once (AW up) and walk off with 50% hp, solo every 2 man and most of 3 mans. Vindication is no go imho. BoK serves you better, especialy when pushing yoursel into instance groups. Use BoM for leveling though. Even though I took Swift ret prior to imp ret aura, I'd take imp ret aura now first, seeing most of mobs are melee types.

I would have to disagree again. This is not only for BT geared. I was merely kara geared when I hit northrend and I could solo most 3 mans and could pull 5 mobs and survive easily. Bok is not that good, because it is 5 talent points. Where would you get those? And it isn't something that you MUST have to survive. BoM and BoW will suffice.
And yeah, imp ret before vindication is better.

STR -> HIT -> EXP -> CRIT -> AGI -> AP -> ArP
*bolded stats to reasonable extent. No need for 100% hit chance if you hit like sissy and don't crit

You are right, though keeping crit at 25-30% is mandatory imho.

Judgement -> CS -> DS, DS is prioritized to CS bordering on 2+ mob situation. Rotating Judgements is good way to go - ie one cd JoL, other cd JoW, to replenish both at very fast rate.

Yes, before lvl 74. When you get DS crit libram, you want to hit DS to increase your crit chance, then CS.

[Chmur]

No. Why would you need CS when you aren't going oom anyways? And conc is the third glyph to choose. Judg and hammer first. You will be using hammer A LOT when leveling, because when leveling you aren't constantly fighting a mob, you will be running a lot -> time for hammer CD reset.

Because I tend to round up 4-6 mobs at once and smack them. HoJ is totaly wasted glyph slot imho, that does not make difference for leveling at all.

I would have to disagree again. This is not only for BT geared.

I was reffering to this statement of yours "It's a steady questing spec. Not that suitable fighting multiple mobs" and backing it up with my own experience. The spec is best pve spec at 70 disregarding gear.

Bok is not that good, because it is 5 talent points. Where would you get those? And it isn't something that you MUST have to survive. BoM and BoW will suffice.
And yeah, imp ret before vindication is better.

Simply, I did not spec into Vindication at all. It's no use... 20% reduction when everything dies under 2 weapon swings? Why? BoK is buffing talent, which as support class you should have. People will love you in instances for it.

You are right, though keeping crit at 25-30% is mandatory imho.

300 hit, 22% crit, fresh 80, 2200 DPS in Naxx 10 in mostly lvl70 gear. Crit is decayed old BT 34% crit. It's not that mandatory.

Yes, before lvl 74. When you get DS crit libram, you want to hit DS to increase your crit chance, then CS.

Again, Goblin justice makes close to none difference while solo smashing through quests. It does on elites and harder mobs, yes.

[Apostolic]

In Leveling I have been doing a combo of grinding/instance/questing. If I have full rest xp I will grind or instance till that has run out. Then I will go to questing.

I am usualy grinding 8-14 mobs at a time (if the area is avaliable). I run SoW and JoW. SoW works reall good with DS. Here is how I do it.

Gather 8-14 mobs up (depending on you gear)
Cast SoVeng (DS will put this on 4 mobs not bad for an added "aoe" affect)
Concencrate
Wrath
DS
Cast SoW
CD
Concencrate
DS
Cast Holy Light (Should bring you to full heath) - With push back being changed this is not a problem anymore (Flash when its up also)
Repeate

And as others have stated when lvling just got for Str and Stam. The other stats just worry about when you hit 80.

Note: If the toon has PvP healing gear, you might want to spec prot and level that way. Stam to SP will be nice for you.

[Shuji1987]

STR -> HIT -> EXP -> CRIT -> AGI -> AP -> ArP

You're fine with a bit of hit and exp but don't place it above crit since we are no rogues or mages who really value the stat. Even though nerfed slightly we still favour our burst and therefore CRIT -> hit/exp.

Just get a bit of hit/exp and you should be fine.

If you ask me it's:
STR -> CRIT -> AGI/AP -> HIT/EXP -> REST

[Chmur]

You're fine with a bit of hit and exp but don't place it above crit since we are no rogues or mages who really value the stat. Even though nerfed slightly we still favour our burst and therefore CRIT -> hit/exp.

Just get a bit of hit/exp and you should be fine.

If you ask me it's:
STR -> CRIT -> AGI/AP -> HIT/EXP -> REST

Oh we totaly do value HIT / EXP until cap at 80, it has more weight than CRIT until capped actually. The reason for this is that D-Str and Sheath of Light talent provide totaly brutal scaling and you really do want to hit on every attack rather than crit on 2 out of 6 non-missed.

[Avokaado]

Oh we totaly do value HIT / EXP until cap at 80, it has more weight than CRIT until capped actually. The reason for this is that D-Str and Sheath of Light talent provide totaly brutal scaling and you really do want to hit on every attack rather than crit on 2 out of 6 non-missed.

Umm, I might not be the brightest light in the dark, but I don't quite understand your statement.
How does Sheath of Light scale with hit? And Divine Storm doesn't scale with hit. You just miss less if you have high hit.

On the contrary, crit scales with Sheath of Light, Vengeance, Art of War and Righterous Vengeance. If you cap hit and have 22% crit, you will be critting less than if you didn't cap hit at all and go all crit to 30%. Which equals more talent procs which equals, AFAIK more damage.

I am not saying that you shouldn't get hit at all. The ideal would be almost capping hit and having high crit at the same time.

[Thunderchylde]

If you want to level as Ret, and assuming that you're starting at 70 I would go with:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=151200020504

And just level with Seal of Command.

As you say you're not very familiar with paladins I'd keep it simple and just Judgement > Crusader Strike > Divine Storm and then just use whatever comes off cooldown.

As far as gear is concerned I would focus on Str > Crit > AP.

I'm not saying any of the other posters are wrong, but this is the simplified levelling version...

[Chmur]

Umm, I might not be the brightest light in the dark, but I don't quite understand your statement.
How does Sheath of Light scale with hit? And Divine Storm doesn't scale with hit. You just miss less if you have high hit.

I said that hit is more important than crit untill cap because of the two talents mentioned - our base damage is scaled so much, that you care more for blow to hit and avoid dodge, than crit and get misses and dodges. This is all based on Redcape's maths and was argued for long time till it was recalculated and confirmed. If you have opposite maths on evaluating stat weights, please share them.

[pimp305]

Thank you for all the info guys. I really appreciate it.

[Aloysius]

Chmur is right. Why do people not read other threads that specifically discuss proper stat weighting to maximize dps?? Want a reasonable approximation for stat values, go to www.maxdps.com.