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  1. #61

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_
    One last point I wanted to make that didn't make it into the original post: You are asking for more survivability. Before this moment, and always before, ALL of your survivability skills were shared with discipline. Dispersion was blizzard's answer to extreme squishiness of shadow priest, that made them so much of a "make it or break it in 10 seconds" class in arena.

    As a result, skills that pass your shielding skills were originally designed to counter the half-immortal monstrosity (in good hands) that is discipline priest. Asking to nerf those skills because you play the "wrong" spec in the first place is quite a bit unfair - especially to disc priests who'll have to eat appropriate nerfs to balance it out again.

    I once again want to re-iterate my main point. You are NOT discipline - you are shadow. You speciality is to let someone else handle the lockdown while you deliver massive amounts of damage in record time. Your weakness is your susceptibility to being nuked down before your target dies and interrupts to several of your nuke skills.
    Survivability never was, and never will be one of your fortes - if it were ever to become your forte, your burst damage would have to take a MASSIVE hit to compensate. And I'm pretty sure that's not your desire either.

    Finally, you have a very good comparison point for your survivability - warlocks. They are even more reliant on dots then you, they have much less of a nuke, albeit more pressure, and finally they have LESS survivability then you. If there is a class that is absolutely desperate for buffs right now, it's them.



    P.S. I do not defend rogues, ret paladins or mages here. They are completely out of whack balance wise as the game is right now. To put it simply, they are broken, or all other classes are broken in comparison to them. DKs I'm not so sure as I've never seen them vs opponents with proper resilience.

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  2. #62
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    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_
    I once again want to re-iterate my main point. You are NOT discipline - you are shadow. You speciality is to let someone else handle the lockdown while you deliver massive amounts of damage in record time. Your weakness is your susceptibility to being nuked down before your target dies and interrupts to several of your nuke skills.
    Survivability never was, and never will be one of your fortes - if it were ever to become your forte, your burst damage would have to take a MASSIVE hit to compensate. And I'm pretty sure that's not your desire either.
    Have you played vanialla pvp? As a shadow priest I was pretty much invulnerable back then. I could kill whatever I wanted, when I wanted. High Warlord Warriors couldn't scratch me and even if they had a paladin healer with them I would just burst the warrior down nontheless. Shadowpriests had huge survivability back then. It was not always like it is now...
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  3. #63

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    Have you played vanialla pvp? As a shadow priest I was pretty much invulnerable back then.
    Loaded ten thousand euro question: was that balanced?

    Less loaded ten thousand euro question: how does it feel to be the one who cannot touch warriors and rogues now?


    Answer those and you will understand while some sort of semblance of balance is nessesary, and why rogues are the worst thing that happened to WoW PvP so far.

  4. #64
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Was it balanced? No.
    Was it fun? Hell yeah.

    Back than if you wanted to raid, you had to spec holy/disc hybrid (21/28/0 or whatever the spec back then was, can't remember). If you wanted to pvp, you specced shadow, and you melted faces. The legendary "shadow priests melt faces in pvp" thread is a showing of our power back then.

    Then came along the burning crusade...



    Sorry couldn't resist. Anyway with the burning crusade suddenly everyone and their pet wanted shadow priests in raids. But with resilience our pvp power wained. Especially when they changed resilience to affect dots too, shadow priests were pretty much destroyed in pvp.

    Now with Lich King things haven't changed for the better. We get a skill that reads pretty much "if you would die, you will now die 6 seconds later and have full mana, yay!". That's it.

    Is that balanced? Hell no.
    Is that fun? Hell no.

    My priest was my main all through vanilla wow. With the BC I changed mains to my rogue. Now with Lich King I'm back to the priest again, because while rogues take names in pvp, I didn't really like being a cookie cutter all eggs in one basket class. Priests can / could do so much more. And I always loved the idea of a (especially undead) shadow priest.

    I really hope things get better once we aquire a goog chunk of resilience. Also an interesting idea I've read on the US boards: Hybrid disc/shadow spec with shadow power and reflective shield. Something like this:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...h=000000000000

    Reflective shield is awsome with a disc spec, and I really think that a build like this could work for shadow too. Besides a few deep talents (and psychic horror which is really nice) all the good shadow talents are taken, together with all the shield talents. Gonna try that out for sure sooner or later.
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  5. #65

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    There's nothing particularly new about that spec. It's pretty much the same spec that Disc Shadow Nukers have been using in PvP before WotLK but with 10 extra points. Personally I use this spec for PvP

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...h=000000000000

    I use this because despite playing Shadow Priest I find it much more versitile to not use Shadow Form. Thus spending points in imp Renew can really increase your survivability. Same with having points in imp VE.

  6. #66
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    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_
    Survivability never was, and never will be one of your fortes - if it were ever to become your forte, your burst damage would have to take a MASSIVE hit to compensate. And I'm pretty sure that's not your desire either.

    Finally, you have a very good comparison point for your survivability - warlocks. They are even more reliant on dots then you, they have much less of a nuke, albeit more pressure, and finally they have LESS survivability then you. If there is a class that is absolutely desperate for buffs right now, it's them.
    Ok, first of all. Drain Life & Soul Link is MUCH more survivability than us. Also they (warlocks) get packed with stamina on their gear (atleast they did), and we don't.

    While I understand your point, it do not make sense in todays' PvP. Since every INSANE HIGH BURSTLOL DAMAGE class got more survivability than we do.

    I don't do more damage than a retri paladin, and yet he got so many ways to survive that we don't.

    Dropping shadowform to win a pvp match is pointless and wrong. It shouldn't be like that, no matter how it balanced.

    The legendary "shadow priests melt faces in pvp" thread is a showing of our power back then.




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  7. #67

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by nine
    beats the whole purpose of being a Shadowpriest thou, no ?
    i mean u have 2 dots and you can heal while being disc and do a much better job at surviving.
    imo Shadowform needs a bit more dmg reduction to put us back in the game, our green bar drops way to fast these days.

    very constructive indeed.....
    not really no. just cos we're shadow priests doesn't mean we're locked into remaining in shadowform and then complaining we have no pvp survivalbility...

  8. #68

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    Was it balanced? No.
    Was it fun? Hell yeah.

    Back than if you wanted to raid, you had to spec holy/disc hybrid (21/28/0 or whatever the spec back then was, can't remember). If you wanted to pvp, you specced shadow, and you melted faces. The legendary "shadow priests melt faces in pvp" thread is a showing of our power back then.

    Then came along the burning crusade...



    Sorry couldn't resist. Anyway with the burning crusade suddenly everyone and their pet wanted shadow priests in raids. But with resilience our pvp power wained. Especially when they changed resilience to affect dots too, shadow priests were pretty much destroyed in pvp.

    Now with Lich King things haven't changed for the better. We get a skill that reads pretty much "if you would die, you will now die 6 seconds later and have full mana, yay!". That's it.

    Is that balanced? Hell no.
    Is that fun? Hell no.

    My priest was my main all through vanilla wow. With the BC I changed mains to my rogue. Now with Lich King I'm back to the priest again, because while rogues take names in pvp, I didn't really like being a cookie cutter all eggs in one basket class. Priests can / could do so much more. And I always loved the idea of a (especially undead) shadow priest.

    I really hope things get better once we aquire a goog chunk of resilience. Also an interesting idea I've read on the US boards: Hybrid disc/shadow spec with shadow power and reflective shield. Something like this:

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...h=000000000000

    Reflective shield is awsome with a disc spec, and I really think that a build like this could work for shadow too. Besides a few deep talents (and psychic horror which is really nice) all the good shadow talents are taken, together with all the shield talents. Gonna try that out for sure sooner or later.
    Seems like an interresting spec, and I'll play around with it and try it out, but is reflective shield really better than vt? (and two points in imp ve/veiled shadows/misery/or whatever the eventual "best" spec would lack:P)

    And considering said "best" spec, wouldn't one want imp mana burn atleast untill it is nerfed?

  9. #69
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Uhuuu
    Seems like an interresting spec, and I'll play around with it and try it out, but is reflective shield really better than vt? (and two points in imp ve/veiled shadows/misery/or whatever the eventual "best" spec would lack:P)

    And considering said "best" spec, wouldn't one want imp mana burn atleast untill it is nerfed?
    Well the last time I've had more than 14 points in disc was at level 75 so I can't tell for sure. But I've read here on the forums the following:

    Say your shield can absorb 3k damage.
    You get an effin' 10k crit.
    You shield absorbs 3k, you get 7k damage.

    Now while I thought reflective shield would do ~1k5 damage (45% of 3k) apparently it does 45% of 10k, so 4k5 which is really something. Haven't tested it myself though.
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  10. #70

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    Well the last time I've had more than 14 points in disc was at level 75 so I can't tell for sure. But I've read here on the forums the following:

    Say your shield can absorb 3k damage.
    You get an effin' 10k crit.
    You shield absorbs 3k, you get 7k damage.

    Now while I thought reflective shield would do ~1k5 damage (45% of 3k) apparently it does 45% of 10k, so 4k5 which is really something. Haven't tested it myself though.
    Wow if that's correct this could be a really nice spec

  11. #71

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_
    One last point I wanted to make that didn't make it into the original post: You are asking for more survivability. Before this moment, and always before, ALL of your survivability skills were shared with discipline. Dispersion was blizzard's answer to extreme squishiness of shadow priest, that made them so much of a "make it or break it in 10 seconds" class in arena.

    As a result, skills that pass your shielding skills were originally designed to counter the half-immortal monstrosity (in good hands) that is discipline priest. Asking to nerf those skills because you play the "wrong" spec in the first place is quite a bit unfair - especially to disc priests who'll have to eat appropriate nerfs to balance it out again.

    I once again want to re-iterate my main point. You are NOT discipline - you are shadow. You speciality is to let someone else handle the lockdown while you deliver massive amounts of damage in record time. Your weakness is your susceptibility to being nuked down before your target dies and interrupts to several of your nuke skills.
    Survivability never was, and never will be one of your fortes - if it were ever to become your forte, your burst damage would have to take a MASSIVE hit to compensate. And I'm pretty sure that's not your desire either.

    Finally, you have a very good comparison point for your survivability - warlocks. They are even more reliant on dots then you, they have much less of a nuke, albeit more pressure, and finally they have LESS survivability then you. If there is a class that is absolutely desperate for buffs right now, it's them.



    P.S. I do not defend rogues, ret paladins or mages here. They are completely out of whack balance wise as the game is right now. To put it simply, they are broken, or all other classes are broken in comparison to them. DKs I'm not so sure as I've never seen them vs opponents with proper resilience.
    You think that affliction locks have low survivability? You do know they moved soul link right?
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  12. #72

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_
    Nezoia, your complaint is countered in its entirety with a single sentence:

    "You are in a wrong spec to play defensively".


    If you want to dispel, shield and survive forever, you are PvP disc. No way around that. Even a DK takes a while to burn properly geared disc priest down, and disc priest with res eats even a good rogue for breakfast, or used to till resilience became the joke it is in 3.x.x

    Shadow was always based around the consept of "hard nuker when not focused". That's why the main comp for shadow was always rogue+SP in 2s, where rogue would lock down the main nuke target, healer/support would eat silence fear and blind and shadow priest would make main nuke target literally explode even with maxed out resilience. This was BEFORE the resilience became a joke in 3.x.x.


    We saw it in S3 and S4. The main skill part of the execution was to make sure SP was free to nuke. If he was, you could be a 500+ res warlock, soul linked with old soul link and fully hotted, and you would still die (of course, smart ones just locked down the lock and blew up the druid instead - killing druids in seconds after encounter start was that comp's speciality).


    Getting one decent self survival skill doesn't make you a master of survival. Starting to pretend you're disc when you're shadow will kill you every time.
    Listen to this man he speaks the truth
    Also the Shadowpriests wanting better RENEW should spec into it
    every Sp i see now is speced the rest of their points into disc as an old TBC habbit
    Inner focus has minimal uses now, and meditation is shit when you die with half of your mana still there.
    Spec 11 points into holy Desperate Prayer is da shit, a quick OHSNAP heal, a stronger Renew.I think if you wanna sturgle with SP pvp those 11 points in holy are essential

  13. #73
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    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    So we're the nuker who do less damage than the other classes, with least defense... that's nice.

    So you're not calling a Retri Paladin, Death Knight or Rogue for "hard nuker" ? What are they then?

    Last time I checked they got more burst than we do.

  14. #74

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    But no, really:

    I DoT : Paladin cleanse (mana cost = lol, RAISE IT BLIZZARD)
    I Dispersion : Paladin pop wings and ignore it
    I Fear : Paladin bubbles (And remove eventual DoTs)
    I Mana Burn : He pops SoW and hits me once and restores 50% of his mana.

    It's litterly impossible to beat a paladin 1on1 unless I got Silence and a PvP trinket equipped. While the paladin can be PvE spec fine.

    I'd love some proper defense mechanics for World PvP. World of Meleecraft is getting on my nerves.
    Raise the mana cost of cleanse...lol? :

  15. #75
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    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by mäydie
    Raise the mana cost of cleanse...lol? :
    No, I'm quite serious.

    Or give priests a cheap friendly-dispel.

  16. #76

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    god all these silly ideas is what set us back....
    Shadow pvp can be fixed in TWO easy steps:
    1.Give Dispersion the HP regen back
    2.Up the dmg reduction from Shadowform to 25%-30%

    also an escape mechanic would kick ass since our Fear is shit and the RNG stun from blackout dont quite cut it.

    there is also a very simple way to stop all this QQ
    Stop pvping with Shadow.Shadow is a PVE spec atm no matter what you say.

  17. #77
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    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    It's not QQing to discuss about a spec is usefull for PvP or not.

    QQ is when you go "ROGUES ARE OP ; CRY CRY CRY" and don't write anything constructive.

    1.Give Dispersion the HP regen back
    2.Up the dmg reduction from Shadowform to 25%-30%

    also an escape mechanic would kick ass since our Fear is shit and the RNG stun from blackout dont quite cut it.
    Yeah, every discussion seems to lead to that.

  18. #78

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Well i'm a positive person irl
    so i still think getting resil gear will pull us up a bit.
    Maybe someday i'll come back to Shadow, for now im loving the Lolsmite spec.
    Gonna switch to full disc today when i come back from work :3

  19. #79
    tedbt
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    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by antidan
    YES! THE MMOCHAMPION PRIEST COMMUNITY DEMANDS ONE OF OUR ONLY GOOD PLAYERS MUST LEAVE!
    lol this kid is good? Shit, I should post on forums more and give my mindless opinion about abilities AND THEN BE COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT IT ALL DURR HURR WHY HE HIT ME SO HARD, O IDK HOW OTHER CLASSES WORK I GUD LOLO

  20. #80

    Re: Dispersion *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by tedbt
    lol this kid is good? Shit, I should post on forums more and give my mindless opinion about abilities AND THEN BE COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT IT ALL DURR HURR WHY HE HIT ME SO HARD, O IDK HOW OTHER CLASSES WORK I GUD LOLO
    I forgot, your a troll.

    My mistake.
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