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  1. #21

    Re: Disc versus Holy for PvE healing (heroics and Naxx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Torture
    Disc is just misunderstood.

    In my mind, there is a solid spot for 1 regular disc priest in any raid. Any more than one and you're not gaining any quantifiable benefit sadly.

    However, a disc priest does make an excellent difference once people forget HPS and start thinking about 'effective mitigation'.

    Talented PWS from a disc priest raises the effective HP of a tank, as does Aegis. This makes tanks less susceptible to large spike damage. Maybe we're not seeing that in Naxx 10, but as bosses get harder and PWS and Aegis get larger from better gear then it will become more noticeable.

    I don't mention Grace on purpose as it won't stack with BoSanct but in cases where no Pally tank is present then add that too.

    Remember, if a Disc priest does 0 healing, but absorbs 40k of damage through shield and Aegis, and a Holy Priest does 40k healing, the effective damage mitigation / recovery is the same. It's not all about HPS.


    Well said, I wonder why blizz or some add-on maker can't come with something to show the amount of damage mitigation we bring to a group/raid. Disc priests or priests in general never get the credit for their shields. Personally it doesn't matter all that much but sometimes it would be nice just to see a figure to go along with your actual healing. There's also the group buff to think of as well when it comes to Prayer of spirit and if I need a multi heal I can always use prayer of healing. I know it's not instant cast but it will heal roughly the same damage as 3 COH's at a lower mana cost.

  2. #22
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Disc versus Holy for PvE healing (heroics and Naxx)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceofBlack

    Well said, I wonder why blizz or some add-on maker can't come with something to show the amount of damage mitigation we bring to a group/raid. Disc priests or priests in general never get the credit for their shields. Personally it doesn't matter all that much but sometimes it would be nice just to see a figure to go along with your actual healing. There's also the group buff to think of as well when it comes to Prayer of spirit and if I need a multi heal I can always use prayer of healing. I know it's not instant cast but it will heal roughly the same damage as 3 COH's at a lower mana cost.
    I tend to find it doesn't need measuring, but then I'm one of those people that think meters are simply a tool to help analyse a fight, not to get all excited over.

    People will tell you it's perfectly acceptable to have a Holy Paladin spamming FoL on a tank, not because that's all Paladins can do, but because it acts like an absorbion layer for incoming damage, the constant FoL heals mitigate spike damage and thus help even out the additional healing required from other sources. In a way you could say FoL spam increases the effective HP of a tank much like shield does as damage needs to exceed that buffer to require additional resourcing. Same with Durids rolling HoTs on the MT, same effective barrier to spike damage. Until the expansion changes, you never really saw a priest in that role.

    Now, put a disc priest in that role, geared for intel and crit and ask them to work using FH and Penance alongside shield and renew. With decent crit chance to maintain Aegis (and constant small heals keeping grace active when no pally is present) a disc priest increases the effective HP of the tank by the absorbion from shield + aegis + a constant rolling quick heal. Only when damage surpasses that does another healer need to get involved.

    In smaller fights it frees up another healer to swap between helping on the tank and healing the raid. On larger fights it allows a holy priest to make better use of the five second rule, thus additionally increasing the mana efficiency of the other priest. Working in tandem like that is a really solid solution to keeping the MT alive and kicking.

    Of course Disc isn't all rainbows and happy dancing pandas. In encounters with a lot of AoE (think Najentus) chances are you'd give your right arm to swap your resident disc priest for another holy priest or a shammy. It's true disc falls a little short on AoE healing, requires some quick fingers and an almost paladin approach to firing off fast heals / renew on as many targets as possible (maybe using PoH or HN to handle your own party). In 10 mans it's not so bad as half the raid benefits from your PoH/HN as long as you position carefully, and in 25 mans you'd hope you had more effective raid healers along.

    I don't want to upset Paladins, but a disc priest effectively fills what has traditionally been a holy paladin role. The only difference being there is no point stacking disc priests.

    Just remember, Disc is not about trying to heal like you're holy. If you're /stopcasting GH constantly and stacking spirit then you should just spec Holy and do the job right. Disc healing is now an individual play style requiring different tactics, different gear priorities and different thinking.






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  3. #23

    Re: Disc versus Holy for PvE healing (heroics and Naxx)


    Though I would like to know if a discipline priest's shield with the damage that gets redirected back to the mob. If that goes to the tank for threat or if it goes to the priest. It'd be nice to know at least. The down side is that I haven't been able to do anything with both in the same instance. As it appears that a discipline priest, and a holy priest would be insane for an instance when combined with each other.

    [/quote]

    So the bubble thing, reading the talent it causes no threat, obviously the dmg absorbed goes to the priest, but the dmg dealt to the attacker has no threat,

  4. #24

    Re: Disc versus Holy for PvE healing (heroics and Naxx)

    This was a great Forum question and debate.

    I was holy at lvl 70 didnt do any questing just raiding and heroics. But now that we all had to start lvling agian holy was very tough to do and i didnt want to go shadow cause i still wanted to heal for the new instances so i tried Disc.

    WOW can quest with out any issuse and still heal for instances.

    Now i played a rogue for most of WOW untill the guild needed more healers.

    Question cause im still kinda new. Spirit over int and Spell power and crit over haste ?

    wow armory link now be nice http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n&n=Sargmastif

  5. #25

    Re: Disc versus Holy for PvE healing (heroics and Naxx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenerien
    This was a great Forum question and debate.

    I was holy at lvl 70 didnt do any questing just raiding and heroics. But now that we all had to start lvling agian holy was very tough to do and i didnt want to go shadow cause i still wanted to heal for the new instances so i tried Disc.

    WOW can quest with out any issuse and still heal for instances.

    Now i played a rogue for most of WOW untill the guild needed more healers.

    Question cause im still kinda new. Spirit over int and Spell power and crit over haste ?

    wow armory link now be nice http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n&n=Sargmastif
    As discipline, intellect and spellpower > spirit, the more mana we have the more we regen through rapture, i would say haste is better then crit, but its propably a personal preference. Crit would propably be better though, but gemming for intellect will be more important.

    this is my link http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...erspine&n=Iebe

    note that i dont have spirit or inner fire up, so my sp seems a bit low >.>

  6. #26
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Disc versus Holy for PvE healing (heroics and Naxx)

    Quote Originally Posted by iebe
    As discipline, intellect and spellpower > spirit, the more mana we have the more we regen through rapture, i would say haste is better then crit, but its propably a personal preference. Crit would propably be better though, but gemming for intellect will be more important.

    this is my link http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...erspine&n=Iebe

    note that i dont have spirit or inner fire up, so my sp seems a bit low >.>
    Haste is nice, but crit = Aegis. I'd prioratise Int / Spower - Crit - Haste - Spirit


    Armory Link
    Life's like a salmon swimming upstream - Hard work, and sometimes you get eaten by bears.

  7. #27

    Re: Disc versus Holy for PvE healing (heroics and Naxx)

    Quote Originally Posted by iebe
    As discipline, intellect and spellpower > spirit, the more mana we have the more we regen through rapture, i would say haste is better then crit, but its propably a personal preference. Crit would propably be better though, but gemming for intellect will be more important.

    this is my link http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...erspine&n=Iebe

    note that i dont have spirit or inner fire up, so my sp seems a bit low >.>
    Haste becomes at the state of natural numbers "you can heal 4 times in the time you'd have healed 5 times" so take an eye on PvE because the haste counter resets every time you move/stop

  8. #28

    Re: Disc versus Holy for PvE healing (heroics and Naxx)

    Ok, I have been playing Disc for a long time now. I have also been successfully healing heroics and 10/25 mans. My feelings are that a disc priest has amazing single target synergy. My job should be healing maybe 1-2 targets for the most part. If it's a fight where the MT/OT tanks take more damage than usual, a disc priests abilities keep them padded to allow time for extra heals from other classes. If not, I can take care of them just fine to allow for other people to take care of the rest of the raid.

    Now, notice I said padding. That's a big part of disc healing. Don't always expect to top healing charts as disc. A big part of our job is PREVENTION. PW:Shield is a huge mechanic in how we heal due to the 25% haste we get (on the spell cast after PW:S, from a talent) and the 4% extra crit on heals (on targets with weakened soul, from a talent). So shielding to get off a hasted penance with more chance to crit is huge. Each tick on penance has even more chance to proc the wonderful Divine Aegis talent. That's more padding right there. So we have 2 bubbles that don't get counted on healing charts. They prevent the damage and give other healers the chance to get their heals off (If needed). Penance also gives off a full stack of Grace (3% less dmg 6% more healing on target), which is a HUGE bonus to any raid (and a huge reason people like to bring me). Back to Divine Aegis quick, sometimes I'll shield (to get 4% crit and 25% haste) and inner focus GHeal. That right there is beauty, because I got a BIG heal off FAST, FREE, and most likely CRIT for 13k. Now 13k procs ~4000 Divine Aegis bubble. Between my shield, DA, and the heal, that's a HUGE pad and a big heal QUICKLY.

    So I might have blabbed a bit there but if you're really interested in disc then you were probably interested in that. So what disc priests bring to the table, Grace for better healing and less damage taken, Divine Aegis for less damage taken, PW:S for less damage taken AND faster heals, Penance for efficient FAST heals, and I forgot to mention earlier, Power Infusion for increased raid DPS.

    I might be missing something, if you have any questions, shoot.

    *EDIT - Going back and reading other posts a bit, I don't have mana problems...hymn, manafiend, and proper casting has allowed me to have no problems in this area.

    EX - <PIE CHART> US TOP 10 Check 'em out http://piechart-guild.com/

  9. #29

    Re: Disc versus Holy for PvE healing (heroics and Naxx)

    Quote Originally Posted by glowyrm
    Penance also gives off a full stack of Grace (3% less dmg 6% more healing on target), which is a HUGE bonus to any raid (and a huge reason people like to bring me).
    3% damage reduction can be provided by Blessing of Sanctuary, and 6% more healing on target (which only boosts YOUR healing to the target) is provided by Tree of Life form, and these effects do not stack. Basically, if you have enough pallies to put up Santuary and you have a resto druid, these benefits are gone. Same w/ the IDS spellpower buff being provided by shaman totems.

    Disc priests do provide for higher average effective total health on their target by damage mitigation, though, and do provide the +80 spirit buff which translates into better regen and, for certain specs, increased spellpower through talents. That plus the fact that it's not terribly difficult to build up enough int to where it's about impossible to run OOM in a raid (running at ~ 25k mana pool raid-buffed now, and have zero mana issues even when the holy priests are crying for innervates despite being in group w/ shaman providing mana totem (ok, to be fair holy is pretty efficient in its own right, provided they have the opportunity to get outside the FSR - which does NOT happen on fights like Patchwerk).
    Bigslick (14/14H 25m) Lethal-Thunderhorn US
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  10. #30

    Re: Disc versus Holy for PvE healing (heroics and Naxx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick
    3% damage reduction can be provided by Blessing of Sanctuary, and 6% more healing on target (which only boosts YOUR healing to the target) is provided by Tree of Life form, and these effects do not stack.&#160; Basically, if you have enough pallies to put up Santuary and you have a resto druid, these benefits are gone.&#160; Same w/ the IDS spellpower buff being provided by shaman totems.

    Disc priests do provide for higher average effective total health on their target by damage mitigation, though, and do provide the +80 spirit buff which translates into better regen and, for certain specs, increased spellpower through talents.&#160; That plus the fact that it's not terribly difficult to build up enough int to where it's about impossible to run OOM in a raid (running at ~ 25k mana pool raid-buffed now, and have zero mana issues even when the holy priests are crying for innervates despite being in group w/ shaman providing mana totem (ok, to be fair holy is pretty efficient in its own right,&#160; provided they have the opportunity to get outside the FSR - which does NOT happen on fights like Patchwerk).
    To be fair I never said that everything we bring is unique. The points are still valid as to why a disc priest can be used in a raid. I also forgot about SPR buff. With the talent I can get 6 Power Infusions off and that does make an impact when put on the right people, or myself for a fight like patchwerk, as you mentioned. I agree with the rest of everything you said, and said very nicely I might add.

    Bottom line, I believe disc to be viable, fun, different, and although not EVERYTHING good about them is unique, there definitely are a few things and they are pretty nice.

    I am sitting at ~20k mana 10man buffed atm, but I also have over 20% crit, over 10% haste and 245mp5 (I'm not super geared, but I would say it's very decent, character name is my forum name if anyone wishes to check it out :P). I don't really ever run into mana problems especially if I use hymn/manafiend/power infusion quick and often to maximize how many times I can use them per fight.
    Here's to discipline!!

    EX - <PIE CHART> US TOP 10 Check 'em out http://piechart-guild.com/

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