tanking help needed :)

[Remen]

Hi all,
First of all, excuse me if it has been under the attention before, but I can’t seem to find it anywhere.
I am still trying to find my way in the “new tanking” we druids have to "cope" with.
I am Neophron, tank of Everlast on Turalyon and formally ( more ) appreciated by healers due to the high avoidance, and mitigation ( was around 47 % dodge, 33 K armor and 21 K HP when nerfbat hitted )
I sometimes find things hard to believe, and how blizz made changes with surtain things in foresight.
This is totally not mend to be a wine thread, I just hope you guys can give some clearance…
The two thing’s I was wondering about are,

I said ‘’formally appreciated by healers’’ because my avoidance is a lot lower these days, with some epics and blue I am now around 24 k HP, 31 % dodge and 24 k armor.
Ofcourse there is nothing to sweat about, I still manage in most heroics and I will probably be having better gear in time.
The scaling is a bit poor compared to how it was, the avoidance is a lot lower, the question is, is agility still the preferred stat to get better dodge? Or should we go for dodge rating for example? ( I know agility works different now, it's a BIG difference :-\ )
Because yesterday I got an item with a lot more agility then the item it was replacing, and yet, my dodge percentage went up only a tiny bit.
Should we learn to live with it, that we will not have 47% anymore like I had before? Or are there other stats which could improve dodge more? For now I am still a "mana sponge"….
It may be a simple question for those who understand the number crunching theory behind it, but for me it’s not : would love some feedback on it ;D

And secondly something I read very little about, is a post with upcoming feral changes GC made, which can be found here, source : http://blue.mmo-champion.com/26/1289...s-part-ii.html
I quote GC :
We are compensating Ferals for this armor loss by improving the Survival of the Fittest talent. In addition to its current effects (stats and crit prevention), it will now also increase armor contribution from cloth and leather items by 22/33/66%.

That would improve our scaling more, and even compensate some for the lack of dodge we tend to have these days, due to much better mitigation along with our nice HP pool.
The question is, because I read second to nothing about it anymore, and while it would be such a nice “fix” I find it rather strange that nobody talks about this positively…
Is this still an upcoming change? Or has it been made undone?

That was all for now, really hope you guys can give some feedback on it, and sorry for my bad English :P I do my best ;D

[Deleted]

I think there is a lot of hype, mostly because people dont understand the real effect of these changes. We have been compensated for all "nerfs" through talents (POTP, Natural Reaction, Survival of the Fittest etc).

I can understand that a major flaw is if you compare level 70 tanking stats to level 80 in blues. Sure, i have less armor now (25k) than i had in TBC (capped around 34k) and add to that that we need more armor against level 80+ targets. Even so, i have a 62% ish physical reduction, and after that POTP comes into effect. My dodge in TBC was 40%, and now im at some 33%. My health, obviously, has gone from some 16.000 selfbuffed to 32.100 unbuffed.

If you just look at the stats and say "Omg, ive been nerfed", then you have your issue right there. You need to look at how its actually used. With my current gear (granted, im quite well geared for heroics now, with great blues, T7 chest, 3x epic leatherworking stuff and the staff from heroic Violet Hold), i am quite capable of tanking. Even just after i dinged 80, i was an acceptable tank in Uthgarde Pinnacle - it was tough, but it was doable, and it only became a lot easier after i got a few heroic items.

In the next patch, they will reduce a bunch of bonus armor, but to compensate, we get more armor from base leather. In the end, it is probably a buff to those of us that isn't decked in full Nax gear, and those that are, are quite probably quite powerfull. Druids have an immense advantage these days, not having to rely on defense, and all in all we are QUITE capable of tanking.

Dont fuss, we're alright

[Feeble]

Qieth is right, you are fine. I can't tell anything about your mechanics but i have quite close contact to a couple of bears these days and I'm interested in their progress. Imo it's amazing how fast they increase HP day by day. As an example this bear has close to 39k HP heroic raid buffed http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...em&n=X%C3%A9ek doing sustained DPS. Improving gear is a lot of work i admit, but it's also fun and worth the time.

[Remen]

ok well thnx so far, to make things clear from my point of view, I don't think we are "nerfed"...I think we have ''changed'' and that is not necesarely bad.
the comparisment is indeed not fair if you look at our talents .
I am still hunting for that staff from VH, haven't had the luck yet that it dropped...

If you just look at the stats and say "Omg, ive been nerfed", then you have your issue right there. You need to look at how its actually used.

so, the starting reason why I posted my questions still is, we are aiming for agility for mitigation and dodge? or has it also become a other stat, for example dodge rating, a sort of mix between them...
I am fairly sure it needs to be agi, but would just like to know your thoughts / experience with the whole ''new math''

[Deleted]

ok well thnx so far, to make things clear from my point of view, I don't think we are "nerfed"...I think we have ''changed'' and that is not necesarely bad.
the comparisment is indeed not fair if you look at our talents .
I am still hunting for that staff from VH, haven't had the luck yet that it dropped...so, the starting reason why I posted my questions still is, we are aiming for agility for mitigation and dodge? or has it also become a other stat, for example dodge rating, a sort of mix between them...
I am fairly sure it needs to be agi, but would just like to know your thoughts / experience with the whole ''new math''

Agility is still our main avoidence stat, but you'll pick up some dodge rating and defense still from jewelry, and thats fine. And since someone will bring it up anyways, ill just drop the note that "Once you get more than 50% dodge, defense is a better stat bla bla" - but thats hardly a problem before you reach some 2000 agility.

Expertise is also quite a nice avoidence stat. Less parries means less damage, and since most of our tanking gear is rogue gear with stamina, agility and expertise, we are able to rack up quite a bit.

[The Cat]

Bears are better than they were in tbc as far as i can tell. When I first dinged 70 in tbc I couldn't tank a heroic. 10 minutes after i hit 80 i was tankin heroics in like lvl 74 dungeon blues. My mitigation is still a little low but thats to be expected, and nothing a similiar geared healer can't heal. The one thing i've noticed about, i guess tanks in general, but more so bear tanks i think, is that i'm pullin like 1600 to 1800 dps while tanking. Which is usually first or second in a decent heroic run. Thats just rediculous. And with the upcomming changes to how our armor is calculated i can only see our dps increasing.

[Deleted]

Heh, on the damage part, i am continuesly on top of the charts, or at least on par with our DPS (schh, dont tell anyone), at least in heroics. The main reason for this is the amount of targets. CC is kinda redundant these days, as long as you can take the hits, and we have a possibility to rack up a lot of damage. With a mangle and a bleed on the main target, mauls will hit for crazy amounts. When tanking two targets, you can have a bleed on both, and even rotate mangles if you have imp. mangle - even without, its nice damage. And add to that a swipe along with hitting mangle on two targets, its just sick damage. The reason why this tops other DPS, is that while we are doing this, we are hitting all mobs engaged in the fight, where the DPS only focuses on one target at a time. This usually means that just by swiping and the odd second maul hit, when the DPS begins attacking the 3rd or 4th target, ill have DPS'ed it down quite a bit, if not halfway down. The more damage *I* make, the less damage there is for others to do.

Gear might also add a bit. I was the first (freak) to hit 80 in our guild, so i had a head start. Ive been doing a lot, and the 3 crafted epics from LW, the feral staff from heroic Violet Hold and T7 chest is arguably quite a buff. Still, on single target DPS, we fall behind on damage, as we should, but not by much, really. I have no idea how other tanks might hold up in DPS, as i usually.. you know, tank