Thread: Mangle vs Shred

  1. #1

    Mangle vs Shred


    Hello PPl,
    I know that this things have been discussed on EJ before, but this was in the beta, can someone post some new info about which is better mangle or shred (with im mangle, glyphs bleeding target etc) damagewise?
    Ty much
    DST

  2. #2

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    "better" ?
    You're gonna have to be more specific than that, I use both.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    shred was, is and well ever be better than mangle, if mangle is applied on the target.

    especially with the idol which increases your shred dmg by 203.


    I actually do mangle crits for around 2.4k, normal ~1,2k.
    shred does 2k normal and up to 4k crits.
    I do neither have a cat spec, nor the shred idol, just "cat optimized gear".

    and don't forget rake, rip, savage roar, ferocious bite, tiger's fury and so on and so on...

  4. #4

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria
    shred was, is and well ever be better than mangle, if mangle is applied on the target.

    especially with the idol which increases your shred dmg by 203.
    Mangle itself doenst increase shred dmg annymore, though bleed effects do if u have it talented, which most cat dps do have

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    oh - jesus. forgot that. :<

    than it is even more better then mangle. :>

  6. #6

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    mangle does increase shred damage,read the tooltip.....effects that increase bleed damage also increase shred damage....mangle increases bleed therefore increases shred

    and in my experience shred is the greatest thing ever, 5.5k crits with that with mangle debuff and glyph seems quite op in my eyes

  7. #7

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Quote Originally Posted by Healingprick
    Mangle itself doenst increase shred dmg annymore, though bleed effects do if u have it talented, which most cat dps do have
    Bleeds themselves do not, affects that increase bleed damage do. Hence Mangle DOES still increase shred damage as does trauma. If you mangle once and never have a bleed on the target, your damage for shred will still increase.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=48572

    This was true in the beta I believe, but for tank spec, is mangle spam still the highest dps? Obviously you would throw in a rake when it's down and SR/rip as combo points allow, but if shred is not talented, is it still lower DPE than mangle after increased ranks and the idol, etc.?


  8. #8

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Quote Originally Posted by Healingprick
    Mangle itself doenst increase shred dmg annymore, though bleed effects do if u have it talented, which most cat dps do have
    I'm not sure why people don't understand this... but mangle still increases shred damage. Shred says in its tool tip that anything that affects bleed damage affects shred damage... mangle affects bleed damage. Therefore mangle affects shred.

    If logic doesn't make sense to you just look at the damage from normal shred, then mangle and look at the damage with mangle up.

    I was hitting 7k+ shred crits raid buffed (mangle + bleed for rend and tear) and only 4k mangles.

    For PvE dps Shred is way better.

  9. #9

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Quote Originally Posted by CSJenova
    but if shred is not talented
    Talented, shred si much better than mangle IF mangle is applied. Without talents, shred is worthless

  10. #10

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    PPl im not that noob. Just to clarify some things:

    MANGLE DOES increase shred damage.(tooltip)
    Bleeds DO increase shred damage (rend&tear tooltip)
    And i know that Shreds crit for much more then mangles, but also a 100 energy FB on a bleeding target with clearcast crits for more then shred isnt it, so i need some more pro answers like dmg/energy because Shred costs much more energy then imp mangle. Also take in consideration the time you waste getting behind the mob (EJ has some interresting post about movespeed and dps in a raid)
    Regards
    DST

  11. #11

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Quote Originally Posted by CSJenova
    Bleeds themselves do not, affects that increase bleed damage do.
    Rend and tear makes shred do more damage if a bleed is up, so you should have mangle and a bleed up when you shred.

    I typically do mangle>rake>SR>shred>TF>shred>shred and then rip or refresh rake/SR/mangle as needed

  12. #12

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Quote Originally Posted by Selachii
    Talented, shred si much better than mangle IF mangle is applied. Without talents, shred is worthless
    This is what I had read and experienced pre-WotLK and post 3.0, but I wanted to make sure that was still the case. Due to work schedule and a wife I haven't gotten to 80 quite yet but I didn't figure the numbers would have changed so drastically that shred became viable without the talents. Thanks

    Also, DST, I didn't quote you originally I was talking to a later poster who said mangle no longer affected shred at all which is not entirely true. I myself had forgotten about rend & tear as I'm more tanking focused and have not needed that talent to keep aggro off my friends, so I apologize for that inaccuracy in my earlier post.

  13. #13

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    even with 42 energy per shred and only 29 from mangle (tier6+tallent) 45-5-5-6.

    mangle gives more CP's (chance for FB in rotation).

    whats the DMG / energy for mangle and shred?

    and ofc use shred on OOC procs.

  14. #14

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Quote Originally Posted by Macintyre
    even with 42 energy per shred and only 29 from mangle (tier6+tallent) 45-5-5-6.

    mangle gives more CP's (chance for FB in rotation).

    whats the DMG / energy for mangle and shred?

    and ofc use shred on OOC procs.
    It doesn't make sense to use the t6 bonus when you are talking about damage as there are plenty of upgrades when you get into naxx at the latest. But even if you were saying mangle is 29 energy instead of 34 shred still does about 50% more damage while not costing 50% more energy... so shred is still better damage/energy even with the t6 mangle bonus. Then you'd just have to weigh in whether you wanted the extra combo points. You'd be much better off getting real upgrades and losing the t6 bonus and shredding.

  15. #15

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    personally, im bear speced and therefore dont have the talent to reduce the energy cost of shred thereby making mangle better for dpsing on single tank bosses than shred simply due to energy.

    Mangle hits for about 2.5k and crits for about 4.5k raid buffed. (average 3.5k)

    Shred hits for about 3.2k and crits for about 5.4k raid buffed. (average 4.3k)


    So look at this from in terms of energy

    mangle = 3.5k/35 energy = 100 damage/1 energy
    Shred = 4.3k/60 energy = 72 damage/1 energy

  16. #16

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    The point is between two points "energy per damage" and "energy per CP", sinc gcd down bother you spending all energy you got and since shred and mangle have no crit increasing talents.

    1)Its Easy to calculate.
    2) easy if you take one CP as an avergage damage poin (1/5) of fb or something.

    ps. i agree to reapehavok.
    shred is dead since 3.0, but ut takes gear and time to notice

  17. #17

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferallee
    It doesn't make sense to use the t6 bonus when you are talking about damage as there are plenty of upgrades when you get into naxx at the latest. But even if you were saying mangle is 29 energy instead of 34 shred still does about 50% more damage while not costing 50% more energy... so shred is still better damage/energy even with the t6 mangle bonus. Then you'd just have to weigh in whether you wanted the extra combo points. You'd be much better off getting real upgrades and losing the t6 bonus and shredding.
    until you find suitable upgrades for both slots of the leftover t6, manglespam beats shredding due to the insane energy->damage conversion of finishers

  18. #18

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Use Shred on OoC procs.

  19. #19

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Quote Originally Posted by furyform
    until you find suitable upgrades for both slots of the leftover t6, manglespam beats shredding due to the insane energy->damage conversion of finishers
    Just looking at the loot list provided here on mmo-champion there are plenty of blues you could replace your t6 with. you lose strength, but you gain more attack power than that strength would give even with kings. You also gain agility and hit/expertise in most cases.

  20. #20

    Re: Mangle vs Shred

    Talented Mangle is better than talented Shred until you have nearly the best gear in the game... which no one has.

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