A plea to Blizzard

[lalartu]

why would one imply the other? noticing that a class isn't hard does not mean you want it to be dumbed down.

and the whole point of the Op was that dumb asses who cant pull off tanking are bitching trying to make it easier. and blizzard has a habit of making alot of shit easier so i don't think you know wtf your talking about.

locks where cheering at there challenging new affliction rotations, hurray no moar 1 button face-roll! and now they are gonna make the dot timers similar rotations so they can be tracked by any coma patient.

so in this case your wrong bad tanks to become dps, the go to the wow forums and cry about a purple that dropped not being perfectly itemized for them.

[Offhand]

I can't even comprehend your writing dude.

so in this case your wrong bad tanks to become dps, the go to the wow forums and cry about a purple that dropped not being perfectly itemized for them.

???

[mäydie]

I know the game isn't hard. I've been playing WoW since release and frankly the state some of the classes are in is abysmal. DK tanking actually takes some thought to it, you got to manage your diseases, manage your cooldown rotation, and watching the dps in your group to make sure that the target your focusing on is theirs as well so they don't pull. The little "buffs" that blizz is contemplating are to make it "easier" for us and give us 1 less thing to think about. This very much has the cascade possibility as soon they will want to give us another 1 less thing to think about, followed by more and more. The DK is not the most noob friendly of classes, and as a player of 4 years who's been waiting for the hero classes to come ever since the vanilla beta, this was the perfect present under my christmas tree. I'm having the most fun since the early days of WoW when keeping threat on a whole group of mobs was actually difficult on a warrior, and you needed some semblance of skill to do it.

Do you actually want blizz to beat this class down into a bland gray ball of putty like the rest of them? I don't know about you but i actually like to do more than hit 2 buttons while i read a book when i instance.

I'm glad chillbro got the point of this thread!

1. Most of the classes are quite improved, and in no way abysmal.

2. There is nothing hard about DK tanking. You can bang your head against the keyboard and aoe tank well enough for any instance at this point. As far as the whole def cap QQ goes, that's just more FotM BS. Just like the people that will never get their death knights past dueling in thrallmar, a good portion of them will see that gearing a DK to tank properly takes some thought, and will go back to dps. Just watch/give it time.

3. Keeping threat with a warrior is not hard now. It was not hard then, nor has it ever been.

NOT

EVER

[Gamehenge]

Wouldn't one imply the other?

Besides when you can't pull off tanking you just respec to dps. Blizzard doesn't dumb down tanking for a single class. Bad tanks become dps.

Yes they most certainly have dumbed down tanking before!! Right for this xpac in fact. AoE tanking as a warrior used to be the hardest thing to do between the 3 tanks. You would have to hop around different targets throwing out revenges and heroic strikes to make sure that your dps who more often than not target different mobs if you didn't mark them, or if you wanted to let your mages/locks aoe. However bad warriors during BC whined and whined about how palys could sleep walk through aoe packs and so blizz buffed the crap out of thunderclap and with the new damage shield talent all you have to do is thunderclap spam while doing your normal tank rotation on one mob, and you can practically forget about the other mobs as you won't lose agro on them.

It made multi-mob tanking on a warrior go from fun and interesting to dull and brain dead easy. I just don't want to see this happen to the deathknight cause bads can't wrap their heads around the new class, scream for easy mode buffs, and fuck with the best designed class bliz has released for this game.

I really wish it were the case that bad tanks just switch to dps. Unfortunately that's not true so far. Instead of learning how to play the class well, the bads keep on trying to tank, keep on failing, and then crying to blizz about how the class is gimped and needs improvement.

The talk about screwing with IBF and then giving frost presence more mitigation is stupid! It goes from having to use your cooldowns smartly to "oh hai just stand there and smack the mob with abilities now cause you don't have to worry about taking so much damage!" DK's biggest weakness tanking is the fact that we can take a lot of damage. Good DK's realize this and use their cooldowns well, keeping the time they will ever take so much damage to a minimum. Bad dk's wait till their health goes low before popping a cooldown, most likely dieing cause they waited too long, and then crying about how we take too much damage and are impossible to keep healed.

[Offhand]

The problem with tab sundering was not that it was hard (it consists of two buttons) but there was a specific limit on how much threat you could build on multiple targets (read: not enough). Think the dragonhawks in TK for example, could you build enough threat on that many targets? Most likely not.

Prot paladins weren't MT viable for a long time. Do you think giving them the necessary tools to perform that role made single target pally tank fights easy mode? There's a significant difference between limiting factor game mechanics and bad players.

Give it time. The game has only been out for a few months. For the most part, many DK's have yet to reach 80 or get proper gear. The disillusioned DK community has yet to form.

[Gamehenge]

I know it's still early, i'm just worried cause blizz very very rarely ever undoes a tanking buff. The only times they have ever really screwed with tanking was when they nerfed something in feral on the mindset of feral dps in pvp and it carried over into the tanking aspect as well.

Already bliz is starting to hint towards increases in ease for dk tanking. GC has talked about increasing mitigation in frost stance, and messing with IBF. Although he has only talked about scaling it with defense and tweaking the pvp uses of it, it caused lots of those fools in that forum to talk about how it's an odd oh shit button at the moment and that it should get changed to be more similar to shield wall, and crap like that!

And with the paly thing. I'm more talking about how towards the end of BC it was almost to the point where the only way you could tell a retarded paly tank from a good one is that the retard would stand in shit like void zones and the like, other than that neither would have trouble holding agro, and the group could continue to sleep through the instance.

On the other hand with DK's you can immediately tell a crappy DK tank from one that knows what he's doing, as a crappy one will be bad with refreshing his diseases, bad when it comes to planning his cooldown rotation, usually use them all at the very beginning of the fight so that when they wear off he still has 3 heroic elites beating on him and the healer will struggle to keep him up, or he won't use them until the "oh crap i'm at 20% health" pops IBF but it's too late and he dies.

[Smashy]

It's pretty amusing that you stick rogues and hunters as the easy mode classes instead of, I don't know, caster dps as a whole?

DK's aren't hard to play, stop kidding yourself.

As a whole is incorrect. I wouldnt have replied here but your, I don't know, sarcasm was annoying. Game was right about mages but the days of raiding 'locks spamming shadowbolt are just dead. Affliction 'locks are a very complicated class to master. Sure, questing might be easier and more efficient than other classes with virtually no downtime between mobs, but this thread is about raiding. In BC lesser 'locks chose destro because it was easy, a skilled similarly geared affl 'lock could blow the pants off him every time though.

Kind of on the topic of the thread though, Bliz doesnt always listen to the QQ'ing of the community. There were many 'locks whimpering about affl being too complicated pre-Lich. But instead of making things easier for lesser 'locks, Bliz gave us another dot to manage.

[Judgementus]

WRong Forum to QQ on.

[meecrob]

/run and jumps on bandwaggon

I'm right there with ya game, stop making easy mode for the QQers, i've moved on from my love of locks because of blizz saying that 6 dots are too many for most players to keep up with, let me love my DK, stop nerfing because of PvP QQ, seriously, actually take a look from each character perspective and realize that teh class is decently balanced for what it is.

[Bullshifter]

I agree completely Gamehenge.

Jesus, reading comprehension ftw? This ain't QQ in the traditional sense folks.

[Knighthonor]

Iam sorry OP, but NO just NO

I have dealed with this Higher Gear dependency crap with my Paladin for all of TBC.

And I dont want to see that here. >

As a Tank, I want to be able to get TO Tank, on the same equal gear lvl as other tanks. Not hand held through raids and heroics as dps by guild mates in order to get the needed gear to do anything.

(Note: Seems more and More like the TBC Paladin)

[Noktismorté]

/run and jumps on bandwaggon

I'm right there with ya game, stop making easy mode for the QQers, i've moved on from my love of locks because of blizz saying that 6 dots are too many for most players to keep up with, let me love my DK, stop nerfing because of PvP QQ, seriously, actually take a look from each character perspective and realize that teh class is decently balanced for what it is.

Make some space on that wagon coz Im getting on!!

I love the fact that i have to now think about playing my class and not just mash x amount of buttons.

I know the changes are gonna come but I hope that the class still requires the use of the frey matter to play.

[Gamehenge]

Iam sorry OP, but NO just NO

I have dealed with this Higher Gear dependency crap with my Paladin for all of TBC.

And I dont want to see that here. >

As a Tank, I want to be able to get TO Tank, on the same equal gear lvl as other tanks. Not hand held through raids and heroics as dps by guild mates in order to get the needed gear to do anything.

(Note: Seems more and More like the TBC Paladin)

Are you serious? You say you don't want your hand held yet you want easy mode def cap? Did you miss the part where i said it's easy as hell to reach the def cap it just takes a fraction of effort? Have you bothered to look at any of the gear guides for dk's that can get you to that def cap? My guess is no. My guess is you're used to your sleeper tank of a paly. My guess is you're too lazy to actually research some gear and make a game plan for how you're going to go about getting it.

here baddie take a look at this thread and then come whine again about how hard it is to get gear:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=28521.0

Oh hai if those lvl 80 instances which you have no need to be def capped for are too much for you, i even listed some easy quest rewards to get!! It took me a whole 2 days to get to 536 def in which i did no heroics (which i would like to remind you is over the def cap for heroics, i was under the impression at the time that 540 was needed for both raids and heroics, but in actuality 540 is just for raids). After that i did a 4-5 heroics with some guildies to get my rep with wyrm to revered and push my def over 540.

Lazy shits like you who whine about how it's too hard infuriate me. Stop whining to blizzard about how it's too difficult for you. If you really think it's way to hard to gear your DK to tank with a 2 hander you need to delete your Dk and go back to your paly. I also find it hilarious that you're the same person who is crying cause he couldn't dps a boss while still spamming dnd for adds and thus thinks dnd needs to cost less runes. Here's a tip, fuck off if you're bad at this class and stop trying to turn it into a no brained easy mode tank class cause you're dumbass can't figure it out.

[HeyMonkeyFace]

I agree with th OP. This is probably the most fun I've had with a class. I just hit 80 a few days ago, and I've had no problems getting *close* to the defense cap. I'm currently at 530.

[Taz13]

All I heard was "Wah wah wah, my pussy hurts."

Maybe you should wash it.

[Taz13]

No, I actually play a Warrior (ZOMG I GOT MORE BUTTONS THEN YOU!) and all I see is bitching and moaning about classes being reduced to basics... but uhhhhhh sorry to break it to you all... *Takes a DEEP breath* WoW isn't hard.

Wow isn't hard at all for warriors,they handed you pretty much everything you need and then allowed you to have a pocket healer save you from your own stupidity .

[danzaedge]

It was pretty easy for me to reach d cap with my dk. between the rep items getting and getting some drops i ran 2 days of heroics as dps but since then ive been tanking them. enchants rep and knowing where to get gear helps. do research put some effort in and its simple