2v2 arena holy spec: holy ret or holy prot?

[yiptastic]

subject title says it all

holy ret or holy prot?

holy ret is very tempting because of undispellable seals and an extra 8% crit to heals, 30% chance to resist dispel for hand spells, 3% extra crit for your dpser and 10% less mana for instant cast spells/heals.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxA0xhzhVuGxRtZVf0x0h

holy prot offers 30% undispellable to overall spells, 60% chance for hand spells, shorter CD for HoP and HoF, Kings and more armor and 30 sec CD HoJ.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAbx0zGVurxRtacbVc

[Sléipnir]

I'd say it's pretty obvious. Holy/Prot.

[antidan]

I don't see beacon as useful in a 2v2 scenario to be honest.

But that is me.

Ret will be better later in the season with prot better at the beginning I THINK.

I don't know how the season will shake out, but Prot is better vs 2 dps teams and ret better against druid and shaman healer teams.

[yiptastic]

I don't see beacon as useful in a 2v2 scenario to be honest.

But that is me.

Ret will be better later in the season with prot better at the beginning I THINK.

I don't know how the season will shake out, but Prot is better vs 2 dps teams and ret better against druid and shaman healer teams.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAbx0zGVuMxoZacbZA0bx0h

here's my revised healing spec for 2v2. It's 43/10/18 spec.

without enlightened judgement, imp judgement and heart of the crusader is a waste. so instead, 3% parry and imp BoM is used and I get 3 min BoP. I still want to get divine purpose, how do I drop the points for it?

[dungorthb]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxhdxGzGVuGzRtacbGbh


i am not exactly sure but I think 6 % more healing on party members sounds like it heals more than 15% more spell power from total INT.

comments on that would be nice.

what i see could be very cool would be, divine guardian and beacon of light.

BL your partner, that way when you heal yourself your partner is also healed. DG is nice when you bubble and takes away your partners dmg by 30%

i would also def. take 3 points out of toughness for imp righteous fury, 6 % dmg reduc all around is alot better than more + amor, the slow effect is cool but we have BoF

[yiptastic]

I've been doubting the usefulness of divine guardian in PvP.

mainly because it's useful only every 5 minutes and when you are bubbled, it's more than likely that you get trained attack on you.


I got thinks other spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAbx...hoZacZA0bxMh0b

I kinda like the idea of stun removable ticket from BoF and 4% avoidance from spell and range is a good plus. but I don't like losing 3 min BoP.

I guess it depends on your partner. This spec will work well with melee dpsers, since you rarely BoP them. Whereas if you have a caster friend, you might want to get the BoP instead.

e4e is nice too. cos no matter how much resilisence you stack, you will still eat crits. many classes can force crits and hit you big. might as well use your survivability as an advantage over others?

what do you think?

[tomy]

I've seen many of u skipping imp concentration aura which i consider a must for pvp. If a mage gets CS on you 8 seconds without casting = dead pally - not even bubble will work, remember than in BC that was always taken even if it was deep in prot tree.

Beacon seems very useful to me...in LoS issue situations or when you both take dmg . But i am not sure if it is dispellable so this would be something to think about but i still consider it good.

This would be a spec without Beacon:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAbxhdhVuMxoZacZVf0x0b

This is something with Beacon but i need to work more on it...it's hard to create it without testing arena and see the flood of DK's . Will see ^^

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAbxhkhVuMxRtZVf0x0h

[Pert]

Anyone not planning to pick up Beacon for healing in twos is insane, that's the best bracket for this talent. Put it on yourself off the bat, so you can keep your partner up without worrying about collateral damage on yourself. Once the bubble gets forced switch the beacon to your partner, since you'll probably need to focus more on pillar humping as pressure/lockouts grow on you.

When the enemy has only two choices for a target Beacon has everyone covered. Personally I'm going with 54/17/0 for 2v2. I like having Kings, I like having Blessed Hands + Stoicism, and I like the idea of Divine Guardian, since usually when I'm forced to bubble it's due to pressure on my partner and lockouts on me, and a mini-shield wall for my teamate is a nice addition there. I may end up trying a 51/0/20 build though down the line.

Build I'm running now: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=spAdxhdGVuMbRtacbGb

I'll probably take the two from Pure of Heart and put them in Holy Guidance, I'm really not seeing the talent as being very useful except against Warlocks.

[Snaggles]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=28691.0

Rofl...um, wtb a new Subject Title?


I would think most would go Prot. The Shockadin concept was fun even pre 3.0 because you could surprise people. With the sick damage people are throwing around now I would rather lay into your stun button every 30 seconds and stay alive for your bud to do the killing.

The Ret tree has all the goodies for PvE healing fun.

Btw, with recent changes to knockback why are people using concentration aura? The only arguable reason is for the Improved duration reduction in Silence/Interupt for 30%. Even 70% of the original duration of a silence if timed wrong will wax your healing. Using Devotion Aura is even sillier because the armor increase is laughable and the +6% healing isn't a huge deal compared to a 150+ damage shield from Retribution Aura.

6% increase to a 10,000 heal is 600 hitpoints. If a Rogue does NOTHING but 2500 dmg attacks the Ret aura will do the same thing. Since many people dual-wielding have white attacks for MUCH less than 2500 dmg you can imagine how that adds up quickly (plus it puts them on the defensive when they start to die from attacking you). Casters won't notice Ret Aura but having another aura up prob makes more sense (pick an elemental).


PS: I would nix Blessed Life completely. Compared to Divine Guardian its a gimmick. You already bubbled and healing yourself...your teamate gets 30% mitigation for 12 seconds while you catch up. I think your average rogue with +30% flat mitigation is anything short of unstoppable.

Plus I would go with 6% flat mitigation (Righteous Fury) than mess around with Toughness. 10% armor is for MT's on raids; Hand of Freedom is for snares.

[antidan]

Anyone not planning to pick up Beacon for healing in twos is insane, that's the best bracket for this talent. Put it on yourself off the bat, so you can keep your partner up without worrying about collateral damage on yourself. Once the bubble gets forced switch the beacon to your partner, since you'll probably need to focus more on pillar humping as pressure/lockouts grow on you.

When the enemy has only two choices for a target Beacon has everyone covered. Personally I'm going with 54/17/0 for 2v2. I like having Kings, I like having Blessed Hands + Stoicism, and I like the idea of Divine Guardian, since usually when I'm forced to bubble it's due to pressure on my partner and lockouts on me, and a mini-shield wall for my teamate is a nice addition there. I may end up trying a 51/0/20 build though down the line.

Build I'm running now: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=spAdxhdGVuMbRtacbGb

I'll probably take the two from Pure of Heart and put them in Holy Guidance, I'm really not seeing the talent as being very useful except against Warlocks.

Are you completely addled?
2v2 is the worst place for Bacon. Its only benefit would come against some sort of lock that uses the Sl/Sl playstyle, or if you are really dumb and stand in whirlwinds.

No 2v2 team attacks both players at once, 2 dps teams focus fire and cc, Healer + DPS teams will pressure your dps while keeping you from drinking, but never will a team be putting significant dps onto you and your partner, at least not to the point where spending the 1k mana for beacon is worth it.

[Adamson]

No 2v2 team attacks both players at once,

Sure they do.

l2-1600rating

[Keelie]

It's called split DPS, and it's an effective method of pressuring healers, given the right circumstances. If all you know how to do is zerg, then you're not going to do very well.

Note: I'm not suggesting Bacon is worth it, in fact, I think Bacon is terrible for 2v2 Holy Paladins, but people DO split DPS.

[Bilbobubblin]

Beacon of Light is dispellable. In 2's, a great number of combos will be able to dispel/spellsteal it. I'm not saying it won't have it's place, but for such a high mana cost, it could get tricky. Especially given that when you do use it and you pop Divine Plea to compensate, Divine Plea is also dispellable.

Oh, and so is Sacred Shield, all our blessings, all our hand spells, Righteous Fury... oh man. We're a dispeller's dream.

Blizzard has said they are going to look at offensive dispels, and I hope they make at least a few spells non-dispellable. I understand Beacon is a very strong talent, but it has a high mana cost to compensate. I don't like the idea of being OP against combos without dispels and then a joke to combos with dispels. I understand the rock-paper-scissors method of "balancing" but it shouldn't be so lopsided.

[antidan]

It's called split DPS, and it's an effective method of pressuring healers, given the right circumstances. If all you know how to do is zerg, then you're not going to do very well.

Note: I'm not suggesting Bacon is worth it, in fact, I think Bacon is terrible for 2v2 Holy Paladins, but people DO split DPS.

I've never had a situation where both players desperately needed healing except in some mana wars where I was hurting just to cast flashes.

Granted, blizzard may have balanced dps to healing more closely for Wrath which could make it a very good technique, but hard switching and good cc's is what always killed me/my partner.

[yiptastic]

It's called split DPS, and it's an effective method of pressuring healers, given the right circumstances. If all you know how to do is zerg, then you're not going to do very well.

Note: I'm not suggesting Bacon is worth it, in fact, I think Bacon is terrible for 2v2 Holy Paladins, but people DO split DPS.

I never once had a problem with split dps in 70. Unless you mean CC or spell interrupt your enemy healer.

But if that's the case, paladins have quite a few ways to get away with that.
1) fast holy light
2) instant holy shock
3) potential instant cast FoL or super fast 1s holy light
4) sacred shield
5) tank grade armor

Zerg is a good strat. But you zerg at the right time. Zerg when your opponent healer is CCed. But look, paladin have 1 way to save melee while keeping him in full attack mode, and 2 for casters.

[yiptastic]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=28691.0

Rofl...um, wtb a new Subject Title?


I would think most would go Prot. The Shockadin concept was fun even pre 3.0 because you could surprise people. With the sick damage people are throwing around now I would rather lay into your stun button every 30 seconds and stay alive for your bud to do the killing.

The Ret tree has all the goodies for PvE healing fun.

Btw, with recent changes to knockback why are people using concentration aura? The only arguable reason is for the Improved duration reduction in Silence/Interupt for 30%. Even 70% of the original duration of a silence if timed wrong will wax your healing. Using Devotion Aura is even sillier because the armor increase is laughable and the +6% healing isn't a huge deal compared to a 150+ damage shield from Retribution Aura.

6% increase to a 10,000 heal is 600 hitpoints. If a Rogue does NOTHING but 2500 dmg attacks the Ret aura will do the same thing. Since many people dual-wielding have white attacks for MUCH less than 2500 dmg you can imagine how that adds up quickly (plus it puts them on the defensive when they start to die from attacking you). Casters won't notice Ret Aura but having another aura up prob makes more sense (pick an elemental).


PS: I would nix Blessed Life completely. Compared to Divine Guardian its a gimmick. You already bubbled and healing yourself...your teamate gets 30% mitigation for 12 seconds while you catch up. I think your average rogue with +30% flat mitigation is anything short of unstoppable.

Plus I would go with 6% flat mitigation (Righteous Fury) than mess around with Toughness. 10% armor is for MT's on raids; Hand of Freedom is for snares.

aye, that's the reason why I didn't bother with imp conc aura. we have fast casts and instant casts to get away with spell lock. 3 points to dodge CS is quite weak since our chance to get one is a lot less likely. + running with regular conc aura is enough to keep you away from spell knockback. why bother?

I'm stretched between imp HoJ vs divine purpose +undispellable seals. undispellable seals means a indirect 5% healing bonus, and divine purpose gives you a way to get out of rogue stuns every 25 sec, which boy, it makes a difference than 30 sec stun.

[yiptastic]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAbx...hoZacZE00xMh0b

[Snaggles]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAbx...hoZacZE00xMh0b

Or tweak a bit more for Repentance:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAbx...hoZacZE00xMh0b

(just a rough idea, the last point is up for grabs between Lights Grace and JotW depending on how offensive you play...with points in deflection prob a better route is Lights Grace)