Retribution DPS (PvE)

[Aloysius]

That is what I have been saying in just about every other dps rotation post on this forum. However, others have brought up valid points that CS CD comes off w/ judgment AND that cons is actually a viable 2nd dps usage on single target when glyphed.

Your source is old EJ threads. I know because I read them all. I also know they have advanced the discussion since then and are considering if a new rotation might be better. Retlol, although i do not agree with some of the stuff posted, also postulates a different rotation.

So would anyone else care to offer some ACTUAL evidence or insight instead of quoting the obvious?

[Piscesthepally]

It's already probably been said, but as ret you cannot expect to be topping pure dps and thats ok. Any guild who would kick you because you're not doing 2k plus dps hasn't looked at the healing meters to see the other half of the ultimate value of bringing you along.

On a side note; I don't understand why people obsess over numbers all the time when what really matters is how you do on a fight as a team and weather or not you were able to get the phat lewt.

[Adamson]

It's already probably been said, but as ret you cannot expect to be topping pure dps and thats ok. Any guild who would kick you because you're not doing 2k plus dps hasn't looked at the healing meters to see the other half of the ultimate value of bringing you along.

What a horrible philosphy.

I've been ret since i started (pre-2.3) and throughout progression in SSC, BT, sunwell, Hyjal, and now Nax/malygos etc. I have ALWAYS been top5 damage done. Since 3.0 my position in top5 has just been locked in.

Period.

Ret isn't bad, it's the player's willingness to do well.

[yellowbiz]

Damage done or DPS ?
I call bullshit, that or your DPS'ers should reroll healers.

[belfpala]

Ret isn't bad, it's the player's willingness to do well.

So... I finally pulled ahead of our enhance shaman (just a gear thing, really). But our DK still crushes me in every way (AE, single target, name it). We also pugged a shadow priest who likewise crushed me in every way (AE, single target, name it).

Me? I'm fine. I can hit 3k sustained dps in 10 mans.

Ret just isn't as "OP" as people think it is, at least not in PvE, not for DPS. We're good. Others are better. No matter how hard I try, no matter which rotation I use, I'm not the top DPS. Fine. They bring me for the loads of other stuff I bring to the raid anyway. When I manage to beat out most of the DPS, great.

[Thunderchylde]

Personally I tend to start with Judgement > DS > CS > Cons > FCFS.

The reasons for this are relatively simple, though I don't have any hard numbers to back them up (though I top our DPS in 10mans, that is partly gear).

1. Judgement first because it gives me +3% crit and puts the judgement up and can be cast from outside melee range as you run in to engage.
2. DS because it triggers the libram and also because of the +10% dmg from 2pc T7.
3. CS as it hits hard and with any chance trinkets will have procced on the earlier attacks.
4. Consecrate comes last.

FCFS will tend to run as DS > Judgement > CS > Consecrate unless I am low on mana when I will get Judgement out first, again this is so I can maximise my crit chance on my judgement as it seems to be the majority of my dps.

Caveat - this is what I have found works for me, I make no pretence that it is the best dps, or even the most logical, but it is mine

[Dokoran]

If you listen to anyone here but Adamson, punch yourself in the face.

He's the only person here with accurate information. I won't even bother with my own info as everything he has said has been on point.

He knows wth he's talking about.

[Aloysius]

That's not helpful at all Dokoran and makes you sound like you have no clue and are just piggy-backing off adamson who obviously does have a clue.

Anyhow, after following up on new threads from EJ and a few other sources, it still seems that

Judge - CS - DS - Cons is the best way to go. However, Judge - CS - Cons - DS is better DPS but more mana inefficient.

[nonickname]

That's not helpful at all Dokoran and makes you sound like you have no clue and are just piggy-backing off adamson who obviously does have a clue.

Anyhow, after following up on new threads from EJ and a few other sources, it still seems that

Judge - CS - DS - Cons is the best way to go. However, Judge - CS - Cons - DS is better DPS but more mana inefficient.

By using judge before CS you put CS on an 8 sec cd,which means you loose dps.It should go CS-Judge-DS-Cons.

[Aloysius]

I'm not sure that's the right way to look at it. You don't really "lose it." You actually get more judgments in that way. I've heard and tested the CD argument on my own paladin and found I do less dps and it's less mana efficient (will be moot once I get a couple more pieces of T7).