Thread: Renew as disc?

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  1. #1

    Renew as disc?

    So i've been thinking isnt renew equal, better maybe then holy as discipline priest?

    Taking into consideration the renew glyph for an aditional 25% and improved renew for 15% = 40%

    Combined with focused power (4%), twin disciples(5%), and a full stack of grace(6%) = 15%

    Which brings our renew spell up to a 55% increase in healing done.

    Obviously as discipline you wont be renewing much, but I do have it on my castbar together with the glyph, and
    I noticed yesterday in heroic oculus, that when i casted it due to rapture returns from shield that was up + replenishment, the renew cost almost instantly regened back.

    What are your ideas/views on the usefullness of renew when it comes to discipline?

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Renew as disc?

    IIRC you actually lose 5% healing through the renew glyph.
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  3. #3

    Re: Renew as disc?

    Well renew isnt something you constantly keep up as a disc priest.

    EDIT: Even with the socalled 5% loss, that still is 50% increase in healing done

  4. #4
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Renew as disc?

    Renew should be something you keep up as a Disc priest

    As disc you're looking for constant mitigation on the tank, you're looking to prevent and mitigate as much damage as possible to smooth over spike damage and act as a buffer between the tank and additional healing requirements.

    The obvious tools are shield and aegis, they're easy to quantify as 'mitigation'. But as I mentioned in more detail in another thread, they're only part of the buffer that Disc can form.

    On top of shield and aegis you lay a virtual blanket of consistent healing. Penance, Flash heal and renew. This constant healing (however small in comparison to the mighty holy GH) acts almost like a second shield in terms of 'damage recieved must exceed that buffer before another healer steps in'.

    Of course you could have another priest throwing up renew, but in my mind Disc should handle all the front end healing allowing other healers to concentrate on something different until that buffer has been breached.

    This works exceptionally well in 10 mans where you can get away with less personnel on tank healing duty. In 25 mans where you'll have more than 1 dedicated main tank healer you can either combine it with a holyadin or durid to add more weight to the damage buffer, or you throw in a holy priest and let the buffer help them get the most out of the 5SR.

    In terms of the glyph, I'm a big fan. You may lose a couple of percent in overall effectiveness, but the increased short term effect is preferable for me.

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  5. #5
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Renew as disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torture
    Of course you could have another priest throwing up renew, but in my mind Disc should handle all the front end healing allowing other healers to concentrate on something different until that buffer has been breached.
    Why not have both priests renewing the tank? It stacks, you know.
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  6. #6

    Re: Renew as disc?

    I'm pretty fond of the renew glyph aswell, only changed it yesterday, i had glyph of holy nova but found out i only used nova to heal through a fortitude buff

    I might still try out the glyph of PoH to see how that turns out.

    I was just interested to see other peoples view on it, some spells still get a more healing boost then holy, like renew.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Renew as disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    Why not have both priests renewing the tank? It stacks, you know.
    If a holy priest is also throwing renew it's compromising the 5SR, better to just wait and throw bigger heals. Of course they could throw renew after a larger heal and just delay the 5SR by a GCD.

    I'm not saying my thoughts are perfect, the disc changes are still pretty new and I'm just doing my best to optimise disc use


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  8. #8

    Re: Renew as disc?

    The Shield - Renew combo FTW, especially with the glyphs.

  9. #9

    Re: Renew as disc?

    If you have a mana spring or a blessing of wisdom, then yeah, I'm fond of renew. In 5's though, I usually try to stay away from it: No return from Rapture, no possible crit chance, same cost as flash heal at the same cast time. Preferrably, I stick with Mending, but in 10's, yeah Renew does do the job.
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  10. #10
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: Renew as disc?

    A holy priest with proper gear will likely have a renew that ticks higher than a disc priest. I have also wondered about this, though I do not use the Renew glyph (FLash Heal/Dispel Magic/PW:S is by far a better setup for a raiding disc priest imo).

    The reason for this is because 25% of their spirit will be converted into spell power. As holy, your focus on spirit gear is far larger due to this. With a full set of 10-man Naxx (ect) gear with the right stats, a holy priest will have fully buffed well over 1200 spirit, which is an extra 120 base spell power minimum that a disc priest will not have. Added to that is that they also have Twin Disciplines (unless they are terrible) as well as Spiritual Healing (+10% healed), and the final total ends up being slightly higher than that of a discipline priest renew tick.

  11. #11

    Re: Renew as disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    If you have a mana spring or a blessing of wisdom, then yeah, I'm fond of renew. In 5's though, I usually try to stay away from it: No return from Rapture, no possible crit chance, same cost as flash heal at the same cast time. Preferrably, I stick with Mending, but in 10's, yeah Renew does do the job.
    If you have a well geared tank a renew is all you need on trash pulls in 5-mans. I use it all the time, although I'm talking about non-heroics now, my priest is still leveling. I find that I can heal an entire instance, except for bosses, with only renew and PoM.

  12. #12

    Re: Renew as disc?

    Im a disc priest and i use renew and i have the glyph also. I know that renew doesnt proc any of the benifits from being a disc priest but right now in 5s non heroic with a good tank ill PoM and once sheilds drop or renew ends il penance once they have lost 4-5k for it does 2-3k heal per cast and with 3 cast its crazy. Once at 80 ill be adding the flash heal glyph. and im sure once im in Heroics renew will still be used just to keep a steady 1200 hp per tic up and back to flash and penance.

    Just one question i know i need to stack crit is there a min i should have ? right now im very low at 12.7% holy 582/209 regen 1074 SP with 12855 mana unbuffed ive been working to get my regen up which i belive im ok at now.

  13. #13
    greenmasheen
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    Re: Renew as disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    IIRC you actually lose 5% healing through the renew glyph.
    +1, and you also need to remember the whole point of renew is to keep the health bar from falling while you devote your time else where, or you try to not cast to regen mana.

  14. #14

    Re: Renew as disc?

    I'm currently running heroics with my disci priest, and I have the renew glyph and 3/3 improved renew.

    The main reason is because I mostly play PvP and I don't care about optimizing healing in PvE, but the reasosn for a PvP full buffed renew are:

    You can't Shield, flash heal, bind heal, whatever while polymorphed.
    You can't Shield, flash heal, bind heal, whatever while feared.
    You can't Shield, flash heal, bind heal, whatever while stuned.

    and so on, so you can heal when you are CCed.

    And then, the most important thing are the renew ticks. It doesn't matter at all that renew ticks 4 times instead of 5 if you are spamming it, the average healing would be the same, but the variance of the amount healed is much lower, so its more effective to have the renew glyph IMO for PvP.

    PvE depends a lot if you are raiding 25-10 man or heroics or whatever is more important for you, but the reasons for a renew glyph are mainly PvP ones.




  15. #15
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Renew as disc?

    Yeah for PVP I'd also definitely consider the renew glyph (plus shield and dispell). In PVP it's not about efficiency it's about staying alive and your buffs will probably be dispelled anyway. So the more you get from a single tick of renew, the better.

    PVE though, there are way better glyphs, and talents to be spent for a disc priest. But still, as a shadowpriest my renew currently ticks for over 1000, not to shabby.
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  16. #16

    Re: Renew as disc?

    For a PVE perspective, Renew is at the moment the worst spell in the priest arsenal. Because a flash heal will heal for marginally less, but heal way faster, and heal for less mana.

    Renew: 17% of base mana
    Flash heal: 18% of base mana, reducible by 10% through a glyph => 16.2% of base mana
    Flash heal can also proc SoL, reducing the next FHeal to free cost. At 20% critchance, this effectively means another 10% lower cost.

    Renew: instant cast, 1.5 second GCD. Effect applied over 12 or 15 seconds.
    Flash Heal: 1.5 second cast time, no GCD. Effect applied immediately.

    Assuming 1500 spellpower and all talents
    Renew output w/o glyph: 5483 healing over 15 seconds. Or 1096 healing per tick.
    Renew output with glyph: 5230 healing over 12 seconds. Or 1307 healing per tick.
    Average Flash Heal output w/ 20% crit: 4115

    Yes, renew heals for more. But not significantly more. And after 12 seconds, that raider better damned well be healed already, or you should fire your healers.
    The only real use for renew these days is to keep it on the main tank to act as a poor man's stability heal. The only real fight where you have to is on Maexxna.
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  17. #17

    Re: Renew as disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by iebe
    Well renew isnt something you constantly keep up as a disc priest.

    EDIT: Even with the socalled 5% loss, that still is 50% increase in healing done
    Disc is all about watching cooldowns. (Pennance, PWS, Weakened Soul, PI...) why add another when (as disc) it wont be much of your effective heal. Leave it for the Holy Priests/Druids to worry about.


  18. #18

    Re: Renew as disc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    For a PVE perspective, Renew is at the moment the worst spell in the priest arsenal. Because a flash heal will heal for marginally less, but heal way faster, and heal for less mana.

    Renew: 17% of base mana
    Flash heal: 18% of base mana, reducible by 10% through a glyph => 16.2% of base mana
    Flash heal can also proc SoL, reducing the next FHeal to free cost. At 20% critchance, this effectively means another 10% lower cost.

    Renew: instant cast, 1.5 second GCD. Effect applied over 12 or 15 seconds.
    Flash Heal: 1.5 second cast time, no GCD. Effect applied immediately.

    Assuming 1500 spellpower and all talents
    Renew output w/o glyph: 5483 healing over 15 seconds. Or 1096 healing per tick.
    Renew output with glyph: 5230 healing over 12 seconds. Or 1307 healing per tick.
    Average Flash Heal output w/ 20% crit: 4115

    Yes, renew heals for more. But not significantly more. And after 12 seconds, that raider better damned well be healed already, or you should fire your healers.
    The only real use for renew these days is to keep it on the main tank to act as a poor man's stability heal. The only real fight where you have to is on Maexxna.
    Awesome post again Danner, except Surge of Light isn't referenced here because it's a Discipline discussion.

    My two coppers' worth, if you talent Improved Renew and Glyph it, why? To use FSR casting as Disc? There's no Rapture, no crit chance for Aegis, no refresh of Grace or anything. Granted, if Penance had a chance (or even guarantee ) to refresh Renew, well that'd be hot. But as far as I can tell, it's not going to happen.
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  19. #19

    Re: Renew as disc?

    I like to use Renew as a disc priest for it keeps ticking HP. yeah its not procing what makes a disc priest but. i cast renew and PoM and the MT is getting pounded so i penn him get the crits Divne and Grace proc and then re new is healing. and if i have too do to AE damage to the grp i can now cast PWS get borrowed time and cast PoH.

    But thats just me. Worked well in BC

  20. #20

    Re: Renew as disc?

    renew is always good. it has always been good. it makes no sense not to cast it.


    and does renew crit now?
    It's just a game.

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