Help me do better DPS! (Ret Pally)

[Trog]

I have to disagree:

The Jawbone

It's the only one dude
And despite of the fact that it's an heroic naxx loot, it's not even close from the axe dropped by kel thuzad in normal mode for a ret !

[Choff]

It's the only one dude
And its stats aren't pretty good for a ret.

look at the polearms, not 3.4 but even 3.7

[Choff]

you have no hit rating at all. all retri's should have at least 9% hit rating, which is about 293 in normal numbers.

get that and you will do more hits and more dmg

what do you mean "atleast"? why would you want more...?

[Trog]

look at the polearms, not 3.4 but even 3.7

Polearms aren't designed for us...
Next you will show me the staff speeds ?

[mightus]

on the issue with capping hit, most ret pallies are experiencing ghost hit atm anywhere between 1-4%. Me personally after testing it on the Heroic Training Dummy (83) have found that with 0 hit rating and no hit buff/debuffs I have around a 5% chance to miss attacks. After arround 7,300 melee swings i only missed 4.9% of them. However I always have a draenei in the raid and their racial give 1% hit. So i only need 4% to cap hit for my melee attacks (including judgement, CS, and DS, as well as seal since they proc from melee attacks) . The only exception is consecration which requires much more hit rating ( but it is not worth getting hit past the melee cap). So personally I use consider myself capped on hit at 132 hit and i have not missed a single melee swing, CS , DS or judgement.

Though even under the cap when gemming always gem for Strength in red and Str /hit in yellow if the bonus is decent.

[meliancill]

ok guys i keep seeing this ( i tested 8k swings and got 5% misses ) this is because with 3.0 bliz changed some things around - to never miss with a 2h you need about 5% less chance to miss - however DS and judgments are considered ranged attacks and there for require a full 9% chance to never miss - and with those 2 things being our main dps not capping those will cause a problem - if you only stack 5% less chance to miss - you will still miss judgments and DS.

not to say they are wrong because they are not - bliz did change it to 5% for 2h wepons but pallys play with both 2h and ranged attacks acording to blizz - so for us to never miss with anything you still need 295 hit or 9% less chance.

[taynix]

well, the only ting i have to say is that until you have enough hit raiting the str gems should go, get your 295 hit raiting and then you can start getting str gems, and besides, the ap/hit gems you have in, replace them with 16+ hit gems.

also your specc seems to be more of a PVP specc then a pve specc, get 5/5 fanatsicm, and if you are a pve raider or just 5 man instance you should get might and kings, and swift retribution aura.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZaxZVfbt0IucMsguAo this specc is what i use, but as you see i did not spent all the talant points, there are 4 points that are free of use.

other then that your gear looks okay

But getting that 295 hit raiting is importent

and also i have found Concecration a good way to improve your dps aswell.

donno if you use it but its a very good dps spell, and i did my testing and with the healing recived and blessing of wisdom and int and such buffs you wont go oom quickly, you just have to use Devine plea all the time and Arcane torrent if your a BE.

[Choff]

Polearms aren't designed for us...
Next you will show me the staff speeds ?

makes no sense, we can't use staves. What we CAN use is polearms. and they are more than suitable for us, no matter how you put it.

[yellowbiz]

makes no sense, we can't use staves. What we CAN use is polearms. and they are more than suitable for us, no matter how you put it.

Agility and Attack Power ? I want you in my raid so I can take Death's Bite and leave the Polrearms to you.

[Aloysius]

Just as an fyi yellow, AP is one of the best stats once you're hit capped and in some naxx 25 gear...actually, AP is a great stat regardless. Don't forget that agi also adds to crit, even if it's not such a great stat for ret. Furthermore, Rawr (which is a great tool for those looking for gear upgrades, although there is no perfect mod) ranks the Wraith Spear, Black Ice, and Cryptfiend's Bite in the top 10 weapons for ret (cryptfiend's bite is number 3, only below the jawbone and the Betrayer of Humanity which has...AGI on it...imagine that).

Just because something doesn't have our best stat on it doesn't make it less viable if it has enough other stuff to compensate.

[yellowbiz]

First of all Crit Rating is better than agility.
Second of all Str is better than AP.

You were saying ?

[Tanyn]

I'm not quite sure why you dont have Sanctified Retribution or Crusade. That's a large dmg upgrade. Your build is way more PvP than it is PvE. I would take Imp Might unless you're sure another Paladin will have it. I would definately gem for Str more than your AP gems. You get way more of a bonus from it. I personally stopped about 230 hit rating, which is way easy to get with general plate dps gear.

[Aloysius]

First of all Crit Rating is better than agility.
Second of all Str is better than AP.

You were saying ?

Lol, I haven't disagreed with any of that. L2Calculate stat values. What I'm saying is the overall stat benefit from some of the pole-arms are better than many of the other available weapons. Death's Bite is a minimal upgrade from the 10 man pole-arms.

Don't have such tunnel vision and focus on your primary stats and don't act haughty when you're wrong. No one disagrees that strength isn't king or that crit rating isn't better than agility...that's not the point. Anyone can point out the obvious as you have so adeptly done. What's less obvious is that pole-arms can be an acceptable substitute depending on what you have. You keep death's bite and I'll take the betrayer of humanity (which, incidentally as I mentioned before, has a higher dps rating on rawr than the jawbone which is a strength item).

[Offhand]

First of all Crit Rating is better than agility.
Second of all Str is better than AP.

You were saying ?

Doesn't stop so-called hunter weapons from being among the best two handers available.

You were saying?

[yellowbiz]

What ? You're referring to Black Ice & Cryptfiend's Bite ?
I didn't calculate anything but just from looking at them, you get more AP from Str based weapons.

Betrayer of Humanity is iLevel 226, good job mate, you're comparing a iLevel 226 weapon with a iLevel 213.


And my whole point is this: "and they are more than suitable for us, no matter how you put it."
No, they are not more than suitable for us.

Don't forget that Str is multiplied by our talents aswell, might be a small number, but it all scales better than just Agi.

[Apostolic]

How to rate a Weapon:

1: XXX-XXX Damage (4 Ablities run off of this - SoB/M, CS, DS and the always loved AUTOSWING)
2: X.XX Speed (AutoSwing and #of SoB/M) - does not count as normalized weapon speed modifier
3: AP over STR if ((str + any DMr)*115%*110%)*2<AP (DM = Direct Modifier, IE Mark and Str Totem)
4: Crit Always (Agility does not increase the Spell Crit - IMO they should add that for Ret Paladins)

[Aloysius]

What ? You're referring to Black Ice & Cryptfiend's Bite ?
I didn't calculate anything but just from looking at them, you get more AP from Str based weapons.

Betrayer of Humanity is iLevel 226, good job mate, you're comparing a iLevel 226 weapon with a iLevel 213.


And my whole point is this: "and they are more than suitable for us, no matter how you put it."
No, they are not more than suitable for us.

Don't forget that Str is multiplied by our talents aswell, might be a small number, but it all scales better than just Agi.

I understand that Strength is the best stat for retadins, but you can't just say, oh, something yields more AP and crit and therefore must be better. Apostolic, good guidelines for a rating (might add some other values in there). Yellow, the whole point is that each stat from SP to ArP to Str adds a certain amount of DPS and all the values need to be added to figure out a total "score" for each weapon. Cryptfiend's bite is iLevel 213 and would add more to your DPS than Death's Bite despite the fact that it's AGI based.

[Apostolic]

I understand that Strength is the best stat for retadins, but you can't just say, oh, something yields more AP and crit and therefore must be better. Apostolic, good guidelines for a rating (might add some other values in there). Yellow, the whole point is that each stat from SP to ArP to Str adds a certain amount of DPS and all the values need to be added to figure out a total "score" for each weapon. Cryptfiend's bite is iLevel 213 and would add more to your DPS than Death's Bite despite the fact that it's AGI based.

Meh, I just did a quick run down. People need to stat doing their own research. I love how some people pave the way, and yet others can't even read the forums and do a little bit of math.

Here, do the math
Consecration:[ 32% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 904 ]
Seal of Righteousness [ 2.8% of MWS * AP + 5.5% of MWS * Spell Power ]
Hammer of Wrath: [ 15% of AP + 15% of Spell Power + 1139 ]
Seal of Vengeance/Corruption: [ 19.2% of AP + 9.6% of Spell Power ]
JoV/C:[ 17.5% of AP + 28% of Spell Power + 1 ]*10 per each application
Seal of Blood/Martyr: [ 28% of mw ] to [ 28% of MW ]
JoB/M: [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 45% of mw ] to [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 45% of MW ]
Seal of Command: [45% * mw] to [45% * MW]
JoC: [24% * mw + 16% * AP + 25% * SPH] to [24% * MW + 16% * AP + 25% * SPH]

All other Judgments (i.e. Wisdom, Light and Righteousness): [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 1 ]
Holy Shock: {1296 to 1402 + 41%* Spell Power]

[rEme]

What is the proc chance of the glyphed SoC ?
Is it possible to do better dps with SoC?

[Apostolic]

Posted from the "FAQ About Paladins"

Q: Does Seal of Command scale with Haste rating?

It might seem it does;

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=2


Q: What is the proc chance of Seal of Command / What is this PPM mechanic I keep hearing about?

The PPM mechanic stands for Procs Per Minute and is a static value Blizzard has introduced to calculate the chance of Seal of Command proccing using the following calculation;

Seal of Command proc chance = PPM / (60 / hasted weapon speed).

The PPM value for Seal of Command is 7.

Some examples;

7 / (60 / 3.60) = 0,42001680067202688107524300972039 = 42.00% proc chance.

7 / (60 / 3.80) = 0,44334663373234530369244410665653 = 44.33% proc chance.

A very common misconception is that the PPM value will guarantee or even limit the amount of procs Seal of Command can have per minute but this is not the case. Each weapon attack has a chance to proc Seal of Command without any limitation.


Q: How does Glyph of Seal of Command change the chance Seal of Command has for proccing?

The Glyph changes the base PPM for Seal of Command from 7 to 8.4 ((7 * .20) + 7 = 8,4). How does this affect the chance of Seal of Command proccing? Here are two examples;

8.4 / (60 / 3.60) = 0,50402016080643225729029161166447 = 50.40% proc chance.

8.4 / (60 / 3.80) = 0,53201596047881436443093292798784 = 53.20% proc chance.