Subt rogue impossible to beat in a duel?

[Lyciphur]

I can't believe no one (sorry if you did, didnt read all posts) said anything about ghoul stun yet.

Just before Cheap Shot ends, use it. Also, Plague Strike itself is physical, so it doesn't check spell resists... In other words you will be able to apply Blood Plague even if he uses CloS.

Good DK's destroy rogues.

TBH I prefer to use stun on KS - rogue will trinket it anyway, but used on cheapshot will make you have same stun duration after he pops trinket. If you use it on KS, he will trinket out of it too, but he will waste 2-3 secs of his stun to pop trinket etc.

[Deleted]

I can't believe no one (sorry if you did, didnt read all posts) said anything about ghoul stun yet.

Just before Cheap Shot ends, use it. Also, Plague Strike itself is physical, so it doesn't check spell resists... In other words you will be able to apply Blood Plague even if he uses CloS.

Good DK's destroy rogues.

The rogue will SAP you then make short work of your ghoul. If he is geared he will even have time to restealth. Honestly dont you think i tried to use gnaw? He will simply stunlock the ghoul then reset the fight.

Yes i kill bad rogues, but a prepared rogue will win the fight. Im not talking about you deathgripping some rogue in wsg while having runestrike qued and oblit him to death in a second.

[Lyciphur]

Well, honestly, we all here speak of good rogues. It doesnt change the fact that you can
1) use trinket > IBF to avoid stunlock
2) summon ghoul during the fight
3) use army of dead after you forced rogue' cooldowns.

Generally, there will always be some players which are better than you. But you can always learn from them and beat them with some practice.

[Deleted]

Well, honestly, we all here speak of good rogues. It doesnt change the fact that you can
1) use trinket > IBF to avoid stunlock
2) summon ghoul during the fight
3) use army of dead after you forced rogue' cooldowns.

Generally, there will always be some players which are better than you. But you can always learn from them and beat them with some practice.

1)Well, if i trinket and ibf he will just blind me and reset the fight.
2) summon ghoul during the fight is an option i guess but wont be able to untill the second stunlock wears off at which point he can vanish again if he so chooses and land a SAP.
3) Never occured to me to use army of the dead since its a 20 min cd, but even so cant he just kick or gouge it since its a channel?

[Lyciphur]

1)Well, if i trinket and ibf he will just blind me and reset the fight.
2) summon ghoul during the fight is an option i guess but wont be able to untill the second stunlock wears off at which point he can vanish again if he so chooses and land a SAP.
3) Never occured to me to use army of the dead since its a 20 min cd, but even so cant he just kick or gouge it since its a channel?

1. In other hand, blind' CD is longer than IBF one, so Im not sure he is in advantage here. Also as far as I remember, Blind is a physical attack and you can dodge it, so pray for your luck here
2. Well, at some point he sure will use vanish to control you and either kill ghoul or reset the fight to his advantage. Only thing you can do here is make him waste other cooldowns as well, and try to keep your ghoul alive somehow
3. Basically he can do anything, but also you can catch him unprepared in which case you will own him. Trying something wont hurt anyway

[deejayuu]

YOU DO NOT TRINKET KS EVER. All you fails saying trinket KS do not understand how to play.

[Bullshifter]

I haven't really gotten into PvP yet on mine, but I have a question for the Sap---> kill pet scenario. When you get sapped, if you make your buddy Bonegobbler huddle during the attempt to murder him, could he tank the damage out long enough until sap ends?

[gobtol]

YOU DO NOT TRINKET KS EVER. All you fails saying trinket KS do not understand how to play.

This isn't true at all. You generally aren't going to want to trinket the first KS in a 1v1 fight, but there are many scenarios where it's a good idea to trinket kidney shot.

[rathok]

You fail....pop your pvp trinket(if you arfe dueling a rogue w/o this shame on you) pop icebound fortitude(no more stuns(summon a ghoul and your army of the dead) ghoul should be up before the fight...then your spec comes into play bone shield up, mark of blood on your target, freeze him and shatter then howling blast crit...magic shell makes poison dmg trivial, heart strike makes slice and dice useless, chains of ice makes running away very hard...and rune strike is a guaranteed hit...idk what you are doing wrong but claiming that subt is impossible is just not true...

lol, did you even read the OP's post? As soon as you trinket and pop IBF they BLIND YOU. After that they restealth and SAP YOU. Because you have no pvp trinket you LOSE.

[rathok]

Sry bro, for pvp, rogues usually go wound+crippling poison.
Unless they are assination (they hav a master poisoner talent which is free crippling).

What do u mean D&D or healing yrself?
Not sure weither u saying u tank thru the stunlock or trincket the KS. (KS has cd of 20sec).

1. If you tanked thru stunlock, he isn't going to vanish while u r half dead. Unless they can read yr mind, most rogues try to down you. In which case u hav made the advantage now. Cuz un-stunned, DK>rogue. Focus on using GCDs for defense, use runestrike, which doesn't cost a GCD to do most of yr dmg.

2. If u trincketed KS, yr top priority is to stop the reset. Do everything you can, ghoul, D&D, don't even try to use nukes, just use stuff to stop the rogue resetting.


Most likely when u IBF aft tanking the KS, the rogue may blind you. But you hav your trincket now don't you? And if u did trincket the KS (don't recommend usually) , you're not near death right? Which case the rogue will blind->reset on you.
But know this, KS has cd of 20secs.
So....techincally, rogue either re-opens CS on you and skip on KS for awhile(more GCDs you can use), or tries to run around and hide (ghoul up and try to D&D him out).


So...if you're gd at D&Ding rogues out, go ahead and trincket KS. If not, i suggest you just be the reactive guy and tank thru the KS, saving trincket for blind.


-Yea, agree that pvp tanking w/o resilience sucks.

I guess i just dont understand how you stop a Blind without your trinket flowed by cloak+restealth+sap.

[Sedative]

YOU DO NOT TRINKET KS EVER. All you fails saying trinket KS do not understand how to play.

lol I think you you mean dont trinket CS... so much for trying to be e-leet

[Bullshifter]

You are supposed to trinket the sap and then /grovel, seriously.

[roflmation]

I guess i just dont understand how you stop a Blind without your trinket flowed by cloak+restealth+sap.

Thats the less desirable case happening, so you're supposed to have problems. Because u couldn't tank thru KS, be it due to gear or some other factor. You techincally cannot stop the reset if trincket the KS. Please try and read into the words i used.

For me, i'm lucky as frost specc. I can afford to trincket KS, so i do it. Why? Because i have lichborne which lasts 15secs. I get a shot at D&Ding the rogue out aft blind.

For unholy,i recommand tanking thru KS. Renewing your boneshield and using IBF afterwards will most likely net you enuff time to kill the rogue. Summon ghoul if its dead btw.

[Mr. Gerbz]

For unholy,i recommand tanking thru KS. Renewing your boneshield and using IBF afterwards will most likely net you enuff time to kill the rogue. Summon ghoul if its dead btw.

...Why the hell would you want to tank through KS as unholy, while you can have your ghoul stun the rogue near the end of CS, which'll allow you to put CoI on him, move away, Icy Touch to force him to use CloS into vanish, DnD him out of it, and eat his face?

[olicon]

Just wondering:
Does Lich Born talent help? You know, the one that turns you into an undead and causes 25% of the attack to miss for a while. I just didn't see anyone mentioned it, so I don't know how well it would work.

[Kreion]

Roflmation, the way you type make me sick, from what I can see you can type properly so please don't short things up to make them look dumb. Your posts aren't taken as serious when you overuse y u r shortenings and especially the wif, enuff and aft ones.

Anyway you got a solid point, DnD should be used way more often, with the glyph it may be the best ability we got in our bag along with ghoulstun (help us get out of a stun if used timely) and icebound fortitude.

If you want to pvp seriously, don't be afraid you sacrifice your ghoul either. It's a nice asset.

[arel00]

lol I think you you mean dont trinket CS... so much for trying to be e-leet

No, he means exactly KS. If you trinket CS you're so nub that you shouldn't even be allowed to reach lv80.

The point is perfectly clear for me: if you waste your trinket on KS, then you'll just eat the incoming Blind. Which is what EVERY decent rogue will do, period.

I seriously wonder, has any of you guys played some decent arenas before? Saved for a couple expetions, the majority of comments seem to deliberately ignore some of the most common rogue tactics you meet in any decent played arena match.
If your standard is the "omfg i r deepeesss i r nuking u down lolz" type rogue, no wonders people find it that trivial to win. Personally I know a lot of rogues that could beat the crap out of 90% of the tactics mentioned here

To OP: just remember one thing, even if it seems easy just get away with this. PvP never was and never will be balanced for 1v1. A all-cooldowns-ready rogue with at least a decent skill is almost unbeatable 1v1 versus the majority of classes. But don't forget that when arena hits, you'll have someone backing you up.

[Sedative]

No, he means exactly KS. If you trinket CS you're so nub that you shouldn't even be allowed to reach lv80.

The point is perfectly clear for me: if you waste your trinket on KS, then you'll just eat the incoming Blind. Which is what EVERY decent rogue will do, period.

I seriously wonder, has any of you guys played some decent arenas before? Saved for a couple expetions, the majority of comments seem to deliberately ignore some of the most common rogue tactics you meet in any decent played arena match.
If your standard is the "omfg i r deepeesss i r nuking u down lolz" type rogue, no wonders people find it that trivial to win. Personally I know a lot of rogues that could beat the crap out of 90% of the tactics mentioned here

To OP: just remember one thing, even if it seems easy just get away with this. PvP never was and never will be balanced for 1v1. A all-cooldowns-ready rogue with at least a decent skill is almost unbeatable 1v1 versus the majority of classes. But don't forget that when arena hits, you'll have someone backing you up.

Firstly, His subject line is "Subt rogue impossible to beat in a DUEL?"

Duel is not Arena.

Secondly, in a DUEL you should generally trinket KS.

Thirdly, in Arena HEALERS save trinket for blind, DPS should usually use trinket on KS.

If Arena had 1v1's then maybe trinketing blind would be acceptable. But still very situational.

[rathok]

Firstly, His subject line is "Subt rogue impossible to beat in a DUEL?"

Duel is not Arena.

Secondly, in a DUEL you should generally trinket KS.

Thirdly, in Arena HEALERS save trinket for blind, DPS should usually use trinket on KS.

If Arena had 1v1's then maybe trinketing blind would be acceptable. But still very situational.

In a duel.... if you trinket KS then they just blind you and start over, this time you dont have a tinket and are at a little less health with a few combo points on ya.

Even if you are playing DPS on a 2v2 healer/dps team 10 seconds watching your healer get gang banged by a Rogue+ X is bad for business (as it is generall followed by a vanish+sap or the rogue's partners CC which you also cannot get out of).

[Sedative]

In a duel.... if you trinket KS then they just blind you and start over, this time you dont have a tinket and are at a little less health with a few combo points on ya.

Even if you are playing DPS on a 2v2 healer/dps team 10 seconds watching your healer get gang banged by a Rogue+ X is bad for business (as it is generall followed by a vanish+sap or the rogue's partners CC which you also cannot get out of).

duels are serious business.

and any arena team with a rogue that faces another team 2v2 with 1 healer....they arent gonna blind your dps...theyre gonna cc your healer and kill your dps.

that is unless ofc they are below 1500 rating.