shockadin!!

[shockpally]

I'm not a "in your face" poster because everyone should have opinions and different play styles. My main problem with your "build" is that some of the choices were just very very poor. The fact that you side-stepped explaining the reasoning either makes me think you now realize it or worse, have no idea why they are so bad to begin with. Improved Blessing of Might for what reason? Spiritual Focus with the recent changes to knockback? Improved concentration aura? ( ). I mean, to be quite frank most of those are fluffy fillers that will never do anything productive but waste talent points.

As for not taking Holy Guidance, did you hear it was nerfed? It's 20% of intel = spell dmg (instead of 30%). With the crap scaling of SD+ to seals/judges your only marginally helping your shock damage for those 5 points (as it's offensive coefficient sucks but its at least doesn't contain an AP modifier). It's arguable that going DEEPER into Ret after IoL will actually be better for healing than holy for single target (due to crit modifiers, Jotw, etc etc). You didn't even pick up Pursuit of Justice for mobility sake which is a staple "shock" talent while your digging around in Ret.

Yes, you are correct. For most true blooded arena folks going into Prot has serious advantages: Kings, can get reduced CD on stuns, etc. However, remember redoubt is at the bottom of the tree now. :'( Unless your doing 3v3 or 5v5 Repentance is a pretty powerful tool.

JotPure taking the place of Improved Judgments and Lights grace? What? Even if you could argue haste > reduced judge CD you obviously picked Improved Blessing of Might instead of less CD on the judges...aren't you a shockadin? :

If you actually took a look at my build, i went with blessed life for mitigation. With the upping of shocks heal and IoL we hardly have the same mobility and healing probs we used to have. Hell, shock on a 6 second CD doesn't even need haste and it heals for a TON! I would only take Light's Grace if you wanted to go deeper in Ret (as a Hybrid build) and keep more of a healing advantage for groups. I would always recommend going 37 points into Holy as IoL still helps quite a bit.


There are three ways to heal:
1.) Deep Holy w/ Beacon filling other points in Ret or Prot
2.) Hybrid to shock (pref IoL) and points into Ret for JotW/Repentance, etc for versatility
3.) DEEP Ret for Sheath of Light and enjoy those 2000+k ticks on HL. ;D

Randomly clicking talent points which won't help you in PvP or PvE and won't make you a "Shockadin". I hope you enjoy that extra 150-200 spell damage, between Holy Shock and those 40 yard judges I'm sure it will help 2-shot people.

Personally, I'll keep: Pursuit of Justice, Vengeance, Repentance, JotWise and everything else along the way to actually help me with PvP.

Wow. you completely miss the entire point of PVE shockadin and the fact that the build i posted is almost an exact copy of one of the ones you posted.

You take Holy guidance because it is the ONLY conversion you can get and still have Holy shock. It also scales with gear. If you want to be a sub-par healer be my guest.

Any and all sheath builds can not get Holy shock, the only instant cast healing spell you can have without relying on a judgement proc from Art of war or IoL. This makes you more mobile. Something every Paladin healer has always wanted. Once you go deep holy IoL is a no brainer.

You take Imp Bom because that is your only source of AP outside of your base when soloing because shockadin dont stack any ST or AP at all. Since JoR is modified by AP and SP this will boost your judgements. It is also a good buff for party DPS since you wont have kings.

Imp conc aura is not only for you. It is now a raid buff which comes in very handy in BG's and any instance where casters are subject to pushback.

Spiritual Focus is for when you absolutely need to NOT have any pushback on your healing spells. With the new pushback mechanics each spell can be pushed back 1 sec. As a healer that is something you want to avoid.

If you want to talk about wasted points Blessed life is just that 3 talent points for a 10% chance to take 1/2 damage? Repentance is also a waste for holy paladin since you can AE tank/kill and is only a 6 sec CC in PVP which is easily broken. Good luck with Vengeance also since your 2 main attacks come every 6 seconds.

If you are going to skip Holy guidance you would be better off with Art of war for the additional 10% judgement damage since that will give you another chance at an instant FoL every 6 seconds in case your shock doesnt crit and 2/3 JotW would give you a 66% chance for a JotW proc on every judgement.

[Offhand]

Wow. you completely miss the entire point of PVE shockadin

Wow. You completely miss the point of PvE.

[zarondd]

Lets clear things up a bit.

The original consensus on being a shockadin was never 40/21, it was 31/30.
40/21 was a full time healer with a side of dps.
The concept of shockadin was to maximize the damage on holyshock along with judgement on the side. Healing happened to be a side product of reaching down to holy shock and SP/spell crit gearing.

After sanc aura went debunk, a ton of self proclaimed Shockadin successors appeared.
Some so far fetched as claiming to be a shockadin as long as they had holy shock talented, regardless of the fact they were specced holy/prot and spending 90%+ of their time healing (we called em battle clerics), the standard pvp holydin at the time.

In any case a true successor to the old Shockadin would have to prioritize maximizing holy shock damage and leave "healing" as a side product (AKA you never refer to a shockadin as a healer just like an SP or Ele who is healing).

I'm going to run a couple of shockadin builds when I restart just for the lols, since ret was hit with a FotM rep and tanking was watered down.

On a side note, I wonder if Battle Clerics will ever come back into favor.
Perhaps Kitedin is the better way to go now, 40 yrd JoJ + PoJ, just stay at max range, if you dueled as holy before 3.0, you should be accustomed to the 10-30 min fights already anyways.

[Uthad]

I don't see shockadin working again. Do you guys realize the kind of judgements we could get pre-WoTLK? 3k judgements? 3k doesn't sound like a lot at 80, but at 70 it was impressive from somebody with 40 points in a healing tree.

The potential now is that spell power / healing are the same, so if you can make your holy gear work for shockadin (and you really should, that's the idea) then you're a decent damage dealer and have almost full power heals.

[Heavenlyhell]

As someone who specced shock in BC i would say its still very viable.

This is the talent spec that I would use
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=000000000000

For the specs that don't include Holy Guidance, i'd say you're missing the boat.

[deafmute]

Personally I think shock is dead from the pure dps perspective. I've pvp'd, arena'd and raided shock for TBC and had originally hoped that 3.0 would've made shock raid viable - I had the dps to match other raiders, but even popping mana pots, there wasn't enough mana to support 70 raiding pre 3.0. Once JotW got moved further down the ret tree, it was over for me.

Here's the spec I was hoping to use for pvp, but ret still seems superior with equivalent gear:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=171208030506

Rotation of: Consecrate > Judge > Shock > Shield

Then on next cooldown in that order of importance.

ATM, I'm only able to get 1.3k dps on an 80 training dummy with full S3 gear. But that number drops to ~800 against lvl 80 heroic dungeon mobs (with some holy resistance maybe?). With 10-man kara upgrades, I'm pretty sure I could just about double my spell power, and with 3.0.8 JotP's boosting spelldamage as well, the numbers might look a bit nicer, but I still see that as a lot of effort for something ret could easily achieve with crappier gear.

[shockpally]

Wow. You completely miss the point of PvE.

Coming from a failure like you that is funy. The entire point of PVE is questing and instancing. While you are questing you are looking for groups to heal in instances. Last time i checked AE damage was the "flavor" of this expantion so you are subject to damage even though you have a tank and Stuns and interrupts flow like water in PVP. The build i posted is a good soloing, instance and BG healer which is exactly what shockadin is designed to do.

Once you get to a point where you are a dedicated raider or Arena Healer you should change a few talents around.

Just like vanilla and BC the amount of content available when you reach Max level is significant. The difference between a fresh lvl 80 and someone ready for Heroics and raiding is significant unless you have been using full T6 the entire time. A level of gear that not everyone has.

[Offhand]

So basically you readily admit that the shockadin spec is a complete waste in any sort of high end content and poorly attempt to insult me at the same time?

Thanks that was all the info I (and this thread) needed.

[shono99]

I think rogues and mages will be dominating in the new arena season. I don't think there will be much room for healers, not for resto druids or any other healer class. The damage output of rogues and mages is just off the charts. (is it just me or are rogue poisons almost impossible to dispell now...)

I think you are judging things way before people are able to get into the good PVP gear. The blues that are out there, you might as well /wrist yourself for taking over PVE gear. You sacrifice a LOT just to get resilience. Yes it's great starter resilience gear, and yes anti crit can save your bacon, however there are classes that have anti crit abilities already. Holy Priests, Ret Paladins are the main two. A good Warrior knows how to use spell reflect even if you're Arms.

Yeah, Druid HOT's got nerfed, however they have more tools to use as well. They still have NS, they have balance talents to increase the duration of your HOT's, and a swiftmend glyph that does not consume the HOT anymore.

Priests have several options, Renew Glyph, Power Word Shield, and dispel Magic, best three glyph's you can use. Prayer of Mending is badass in most any situation.

Shamans have Riptide, Earth Shield, Ancestral Awakening, and Earthliving Weapon, not to mention Bloodlust and can be played offensively even resto with totems and shocks.

Paladins have a short cooldown on Shocks, sometimes 15 seconds could cripple you, and many talents affect it now, plus it makes your next Flash of Light Instant if you aren't a moron and talented it. And Beacon is pretty good if the DPS is spread out, or you use hand of sacrifice(Having dispel resistance is nice for PVP). Not to mention BOP and Divine Shield to save you or party members from death. And plate to last a bit longer against melee's.

Healers are a defensive class, but even healers can sometimes get that extra burst in. There are also a lot of bad healers. You're still going to see Priest/Rogue combo's because the Priest can support the Rogue in ways a Mage can't. And a mage is useless without mana, but that shouldn't be a problem anyways, especially with 2 minute evocations. And instant invis is nice for a long fight to confuse the enemy. Resto Druid and Rogue is probably even better cuz perception can't be abused in arenas anymore.

In BC, if you didn't have 450-500 resilience, you were considered garbage, unless you were a Cheat Death Rogue before they fixed it. With all the PVE epics and epic PVE gear floating around, you're going to see a ton of burst damage, and healers not able to do their job. Say that again in 2 months when people are in full S5/S6 gear and not shitty crafted blues. You're gimping yourself by taking that, use your old PVP gear if you have S4.

Yes, every class has a counter. Warlocks will get torn up by Shadowstep Rogues, because even if their shadowstep is on cooldown, they still have Cloak of Shadows, and Vanish even to just annoy you and get rid of DOTS.

Paladins with bubble on cooldown are a sitting duck to some Warlocks that know how to kite. Warriors as well, not to mention Curse of Exhaustion is 41 yards, and Charge/Intercept is 25, and DOTS for an affliction lock are 36 yards.

Hunters can eat mages up if they know what they are doing. Good Mages however can destroy any class.

If a Warlock can kite a Shaman, game over. Warlocks can destroy Druids if they don't get the jump, especially if Berserking is on cooldown, if it's not, hope you have a good healer.

PVP gear also had increased armor, that offset some of the squishyness for cloth and leather wearers. And I think that's why Warlocks did as well as they do in PVP.

[exeedorbit]

Anyone that talks about a PVE shockadin build, should eat a roach. The shockadin build was always meant for PvP, and only for PvP. Anyone going into a raid as a so called "shockadin" would be better off just not going. True shocakdins are dead, and from the looks of it, it's not coming back.

Ret has now become the closest thing to a shockadin that you can ask for. Though, the insanely small mana pool due to lack of int on ret gear, basically buries that too.

[Deleted]

Well. I killed 5 lvl 80s together as shockadin. Two warlocks, 1 hunter, 1 fury warrior and 1 rogue. Cant blame this specc. The Seal and Judgement damage need to be increased by 500/100%:/ but i crit with shock almost every time i use it!

[shockpally]

So basically you readily admit that the shockadin spec is a complete waste in any sort of high end content and poorly attempt to insult me at the same time?

Thanks that was all the info I (and this thread) needed.

You insult yourself. Seriously all you do is make stupid snide little coments and offer no real point of view or meaningful contribution to the discussion. In other words Trolling and you should be banned for it.

As far as "High end" gaming goes. If you arent a dedicated PVP healer (Holy /Prot) then a 51/05/15 kings build or 51/00/20 still brings a lot of functionality to a raid and solo content and can still throw good damage. The build is very customizable and has many variations for your individual play or Group compositions.

[Offhand]

Comment still stands. Schockadin isn't viable for arena or raiding.

Call me a troll if you will, seen better insults from smarter people.

[LoLHoly]

Wow. you completely miss the entire point of PVE shockadin and the fact that the build i posted is almost an exact copy of one of the ones you posted. not really but ok

You take Holy guidance because it is the ONLY conversion you can get and still have Holy shock. It also scales with gear. If you want to be a sub-par healer be my guest. sorry i was focused on having a pvp edge. i'll give up 200 spell damage for a 1 min cc in PvE (or an instant cast 6 sec ranged incapacitate at range). I don't need the 200 spell dmg because I have an additional 291 mp5...tks JotW

Any and all sheath builds can not get Holy shock, the only instant cast healing spell you can have without relying on a judgement proc from Art of war or IoL. This makes you more mobile. Something every Paladin healer has always wanted. Once you go deep holy IoL is a no brainer. I never mentioned mobility with the SoL healer build, nor shockadin. You obviously haven't Sheath healed before...it's kinda fun to play with.

You take Imp Bom because that is your only source of AP outside of your base when soloing because shockadin dont stack any ST or AP at all. Since JoR is modified by AP and SP this will boost your judgements. It is also a good buff for party DPS since you wont have kings. rofl, more PvE Shockadin...I love it. Yes, 900 ap with the caster sword is killer....don't go crushing the damage charts with your 80 dps 1hander. I don't think you have looked at seal/judge scaling because our damage with it's pretty sad and marginally increasing AP is hardly noticeable.

Imp conc aura is not only for you. It is now a raid buff which comes in very handy in BG's and any instance where casters are subject to pushback. Now we are raiding as a shock? If you say it helps in BG's and instances, cool...have fun...

Spiritual Focus is for when you absolutely need to NOT have any pushback on your healing spells. With the new pushback mechanics each spell can be pushed back 1 sec. As a healer that is something you want to avoid (Shock/LH/Bubble are all instant and mobile). If you time for 3.5 sec base heals it isn't a huge deal. Spiritual Focus is garbage and that's why its tier 1...why you have 9 points in tier 1 is interesting at the least. Spending points is very fun, I can't blame ya. .

If you want to talk about wasted points Blessed life is just that 3 talent points for a 10% chance to take 1/2 damage? Repentance is also a waste for holy paladin since you can AE tank/kill and is only a 6 sec CC in PVP which is easily broken. Good luck with Vengeance also since your 2 main attacks come every 6 seconds. ...Yes, blessed life is garbage...I would rather have your fantastic KB resistance offered by Spritual Focus. Btw, whats half of a elemental sham's chain lightning (dont hurt yourself on the math)? "only an instant 6 sec CC that doesnt suffer from DR and you can cast at range. It's one of the best CC's in the game. Remember when druids were OP in arena's because of Cyclone? Rofl. Vengeance can be triggered by all crits! That means 10 percent extra damage to all attacks for quite a while (plus you constantly refresh the stack).

If you are going to skip Holy guidance you would be better off with Art of war for the additional 10% judgement damage since that will give you another chance at an instant FoL every 6 seconds in case your shock doesnt crit and 2/3 JotW would give you a 66% chance for a JotW proc on every judgement (10% extra for only one attack we have and a chance to have an instant FoL. Or I could just grab Repentance for 1 friggin point and CC someone for 6 seconds for a Divine Favor HL Crit). Would you prefer to flirt with the RNG or actually hit the "time out" button for full health? 8) .

Nevermind. Enjoy your game. All your points are valid.

This thread once again proves that anything mentioning "Shockadin" is bound for epic failure.

Let the record show that I will never say the word again.

[Offhand]

Nevermind. Enjoy your game. All your points are valid.

This thread once again proves that anything mentioning "Shockadin" is bound for epic failure.

Let the record show that I will never say the word again.

Amen brother, Amen.

[LoLHoly]

Quote from: Offhand on December 14, 2008, 12:16:52 AM
So basically you readily admit that the shockadin spec is a complete waste in any sort of high end content and poorly attempt to insult me at the same time?

Thanks that was all the info I (and this thread) needed.

You insult yourself. Seriously all you do is make stupid snide little coments and offer no real point of view or meaningful contribution to the discussion. In other words Trolling and you should be banned for it.

As far as "High end" gaming goes. If you arent a dedicated PVP healer (Holy /Prot) then a 51/05/15 kings build or 51/00/20 still brings a lot of functionality to a raid and solo content and can still throw good damage. The build is very customizable and has many variations for your individual play or Group compositions.

No offense but based on very fuzzy logic I'm still can't figure out your goal with any type of hybrid build. There is no "good for everything" build and that was never the original intent of the ____adin (I don't even want to type the prefix). Even mentioning "raid and solo and can still throw good damage" is a complete oxymoron. ??? There is NO build that offers healing and "good damage" in a raid or even group world....there is just "better dps" amongst a specific class or spec. If you open up recount and brag about 500+dps while in an instance you might notice the rogue or hunter doing 4 times your numbers w/o even trying to compete.

In regards to "high end" gaming consisting of raids I doubt you will find many "do whatever you want" builds over in the EJ forums. People who read and study this stuff usually have a couple main builds that work...and thats about it (they don't experiment with spiritual focus). The only real thing for raids you are missing with some of the Prot talents in a deep holy build is Kings and improved BoP. Going Ret saves you a little mana on instant abilities (mainly shock and judge for anything a raider would use), gives you faster judges (not for DPS but to help keep a mob judged with the effect while healing at the same time...its a race against the GCD really), and Pursuit of Justice for when you have to chase someone for a quick heal and then back out of the AoE.). PvP is different but Kings alone is a good reason to go prot (HP's > All).

I would strongly strongly urge you going Ret for a day. Buy yourself 200g in AH greens and play around with a target dummy. I think the numbers will utterly scare you. I would rather live in a world where everyone is balanced and the offensive holy can burst down someone in 20 seconds and move on to the next target...but it just doesn't exist. At least playing the other side for a few days would give perspective that might save your eLife someday. I sure as hell thought Ret was a joke until I spent 5 levels 70-75), I won't play the same game now in the BG's or Arenas...maybe that's why I won't give up Repentance . "How about you stop out dps'ing my heals for a sec while I find help!" /cast Repentance

The game that currently exists is this: offensive casters have talents to make big magic numbers (double dmg crits and proper dmg coefficients (not many Mages w/ AP coefficients, lol), defensive casters should be healing with their mana 90% of the time, melee toons either take hits like dumptrucks or do damage like rail guns. Actually, many Prot tanks still do pretty crazy dmg. :-\

Besides outlasting and out-thinking a Ret pally your not going to steamroller him into submission. Unless you have 4000+ SD Holy Shock will be sub-par at doing anything but slowly wittling down a 27K+ hp dps melee. Meanwhile...his judges are doing 3 times what yours are and thats only one of his BIG attacks.

Seriously though, all joking and insulting aside. Goodluck. We aren't the three-hit specialists in this game.

[Apostolic]

LAWL

Shockidan build was only viable in Season 1 (maybe season 2). It will never be viable again due to the lack of scaling with SP now and the massive amounts of health and resilience gear.

Ret tree is now the new Shockadin, with the Judgments now scaling with AP. 6kAP>3KSP, due to the fact that most judgments receive.

Consecration:[ 32% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 904 ]
Seal of Righteousness [ 2.8% of MWS * AP + 5.5% of MWS * Spell Power ]
Hammer of Wrath: [ 15% of AP + 15% of Spell Power + 1139 ]
Seal of Vengeance/Corruption: [ 19.2% of AP + 9.6% of Spell Power ]
JoV/C:[ 17.5% of AP + 28% of Spell Power + 1 ]*10 per each application
Seal of Blood/Martyr: [ 28% of mw ] to [ 28% of MW ]
JoB/M: [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 45% of mw ] to [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 45% of MW ]
Seal of Command: [45% * mw] to [45% * MW]
JoC: [24% * mw + 16% * AP + 25% * SPH] to [24% * MW + 16% * AP + 25% * SPH]

All other Judgments (i.e. Wisdom, Light and Righteousness): [ 20% of AP + 32% of Spell Power + 1 ]
Holy Shock: {1296 to 1402 + 41%* Spell Power]

That might help you do the math to prove that the OLD Shockadin is DEAD.

[LoLHoly]

Amen brother, Amen.

While in my mind any "hybrid" spec has advantages or disadvantages (and will play my own version of it) the forbidden word itself acts as a black light for CSI's to find newbs with. One mention of the ____adin is like yelling "BOMB!" in an Airport or "FIRE!" in a crowded movie theater.

Goodluck with that magic black-light John Grishom.

[Offhand]

Goodluck with that magic black-light John Grishom.

I found semen in the talent trees.

...

Now that would be an interesting episode.

[LoLHoly]

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