Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    A question to all the holy priests

    hi my main isnt a priest its a holy pala but i have a question to ask about priests who are specced for spirit.
    basicly there is a priest in my guild who raids with us and he is speced 51 / 20 / 0 (i dont know alot about priests just to let you know) is there a specc that wont gimp healing as much but still lets you get the spirit buff because this specc looks alot like a pvp specc.

    thx for reading
    80 Holy pala
    80 resto druid

  2. #2

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    everything is possible...

    but still if you go that deep in discipline, you miss loads of holy talents

    If you really want somebody in raid with the improved spirit buff it's best to have a discipline priest.
    But in discipline you can spec in 2 different ways...
    PVP discipline and raid discpline

  3. #3
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    sealab 2012
    Posts
    99

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    it really depends where those talents are placed in the tree. Blizz reworked Discipline for PVE with the MT healer goal in mind (crit/int/mp5). It is viable though best for non rage based tanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jubjub View Post
    This is like saying "I was running along the motorway eating a banana and was hit by a car. Just wondering if anyone else had problems with being hit by a car while eating bananas?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Howling Wind View Post
    i like the trix yogurt vomit bat. He is EPIC

  4. #4

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    wot is the pve specc then?
    80 Holy pala
    80 resto druid

  5. #5
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,275

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    You forgot to tell the size of the raid, but imo. all priests should get CoH as the minimum in 25man raids, because only priests & shamans will do AoE healing, leaving singletarget healing to paladins, and random HoTs to druids.


  6. #6

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    Discipline is a fine spec to use for raid healing, although you and he are slightly redundant as tank healers, (unless the redundancy is needed for 25s). If you are the only two healers, then you might suggest a holy build, I wouldn't bother with spirit either.

  7. #7

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    in general,

    Disc > great single target and bad at Aoe. Want crit and haste.
    Holy > best group healing and OK at single target. Want spirit, crit/haste.

    The disc tree has better mana efficiency than holy, but doesn't have the +healing that the holy tree offers. The imp spirit buff may be his attempt at an extra free 80 spell power. Otherwise, spirit does very little compared to the mana return he'll get from his deep disc talent on a successful heal.

    I respecced from holy to disc so that i could have enough mana to continuously spam heals non-stop for 6 minutes on our first 25-man patchwerk. Thats the kind of mana efficiency you just cant get out of the holy tree.

    agree with above post though, disc priest = pally healer in design

  8. #8

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    You forgot to tell the size of the raid, but imo. all priests should get CoH as the minimum in 25man raids, because only priests & shamans will do AoE healing, leaving singletarget healing to paladins, and random HoTs to druids.
    Druids might get their HoTs, but they also have Wild Growth (HoT version of CoH). Divine Aegis and Borrowed Time are all the reason in the world to be a single target healer. So no, not all priests should get CoH.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  9. #9

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    51/20 is as you stated a pvp spec. The spec that would be used for pve healing would be a 57/14 spec. Disc however does not focus on spirit, they rely on having a large mana pool, a lot of crit, and later on more haste. The raid utility of a disc priest can't be underestimated, they are amazing mt healers, and the gap between disc and holy for aoe healing is about to get smaller with the addition of the 6 sec cd on Coh.
    Also spirit is still a strong stat for holy priests, but since the changes to the way the regen formula is calculated, int and crit are rated higher than spirit for a holy priest. This is not to say that spirit should be left behind, a healthy amount is still needed, but it is not the same as it was in bc.

    Elitist Jerks has a great healing compendium for both disc and holy, solid read for any healer confused about the role/strengths of the priest class

  10. #10

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    Disc =/= pvp spec. Unless resillience save them. most people will break your shield within 15 seconds and you can't do shit about it because of weakened soul. your best heal can't be used on self and your other heals don't have alot of benefits thus not being really mana efficient.

    Holy can outheal most dps output. guardian spirit works just as good as a pain supp, and can be better (if you die it heals you for 50% of health).

    both spec are mana efficient in raid settings and 5 mans if they do what they should do. Disc shielding alot and penance. Holy, greater healings and flash heals.

    As holy get meditation and inner focus on the DISC side and you are golden.

    both spec are good. we have yet to see if Disc will still be the pvp way to go, it might turn tables and we might see holy priests in pvp like before BC

  11. #11

  12. #12

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    Well, Disc isn't necessarily terrible aoe healer. Disc priest still has PoM and PoH. There are a few encounters where bringing a discipline priest really owns.

    For example, Patchwerk. During 1 normal (not insane dps) Patchwerk encounter, a discipline priest can use 2 pain suppressions which are a life-saver. Also, penance and gheal are landing extremely fast, with high chance of aegis proccing.

    Loatheb - no healing, but disc priest can still bubble people during no-heal phase. But when healing phase is incoming, disc priest can do this:

    4 seconds before the heal phase drop a PoM into 1 group, start precasting PoH and have 1 member targeted for Penance. Penance will heal for a minimum of 9.5K (with my gear) and maximum of 14.5K creating a really nice aegis. Also disc priest can also cast 2 PoH's if needed due to haste buffs. I'm not saying holy priest can't but this is one fight where disc really owns. So within 3 second window, disc priest can heal up a minimum of 6 people or maximum of 8 assuming PoM bounces within range. If aegis procs, that's additional damage prevention not shown in healing.

    Malygos - vortexes - undergeared people usually die here (tanks). This is where disc comes to save them - pop PS on MT before landing to save him from instantly being gibbed. During vortex phase, disc can, again, PoM a group and proc aegis, saving them from portion of damage received when they land.

    Sapphiron - again aegis paired with PoM, really owns there, throw PoM in 1 group and watch it bounce like nuts. Lower PoM CD makes disc, once more, extremely useful.

    Also, PI is a great spell which can be used on mages or shadow priests to up raid DPS a bit.

    Disc certainly has PvE qualities. Spec that Pynekhone is using is what my guild has tried out and it works perfectly. Since the content is rather easy at the moment, there is no need for insane healing that Holy (when geared) can output since Holy's mana regen is gimped due to many raid leaders using them primarily as raid healers, not single target healers (and holy does own as MT healer).

  13. #13

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    For example, Patchwerk. During 1 normal (not insane dps) Patchwerk encounter, a discipline priest can use 2 pain suppressions which are a life-saver. Also, penance and gheal are landing extremely fast, with high chance of aegis proccing.
    Even for this one fight Holy would be better than Discipline.

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Loatheb - no healing, but disc priest can still bubble people during no-heal phase. But when healing phase is incoming, disc priest can do this:

    4 seconds before the heal phase drop a PoM into 1 group, start precasting PoH and have 1 member targeted for Penance. Penance will heal for a minimum of 9.5K (with my gear) and maximum of 14.5K creating a really nice aegis. Also disc priest can also cast 2 PoH's if needed due to haste buffs. I'm not saying holy priest can't but this is one fight where disc really owns. So within 3 second window, disc priest can heal up a minimum of 6 people or maximum of 8 assuming PoM bounces within range. If aegis procs, that's additional damage prevention not shown in healing.
    Or be holy and heal up a minimum of 19 ppl or maximum of 25 ppl.

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Sapphiron - again aegis paired with PoM, really owns there, throw PoM in 1 group and watch it bounce like nuts. Lower PoM CD makes disc, once more, extremely useful.
    Too bad Discipline doesn't have the Lower PoM CD lol... Holy has that. Nice try though.

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Also, PI is a great spell which can be used on mages or shadow priests to up raid DPS a bit.

    (and holy does own as MT healer).
    Agreed.



    Also:
    Discipline priests are a waste in any 25 man that is currently available. 14/57/0 is what all priests should be healing with. Holy priests can keep up a Single target much better than Discipline priests. Discipline is just good in one thing and heals 20% less that holy, that's just terrible... Maybe 21/50 for spirit buff but Imp Spirit not needed.

  14. #14

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    Even for this one fight Holy would be better than Discipline.
    No, because holy doesn't provide damage absorption.

    Or be holy and heal up a minimum of 19 ppl or maximum of 25 ppl.
    How? With CoH on 1.5 sec gcd, how do you heal 19 or 25 people? Don't say Lightwell please, it's still a laughable talent and at Loatheb - loss of dps. Plus even if by some miracle you got 10 people to somehow stop what they're doing in EXACT same moment or window of healing..

    Too bad Discipline doesn't have the Lower PoM CD lol... Holy has that. Nice try though.
    I stand corrected

    Discipline priests are a waste in any 25 man that is currently available.
    Actually, no, they're not a waste. What's a waste is undergeared holy priest. Yes, holy at the moment is probably the best healer available but if holy is put on raid healing without gear to support the regen - they're going to be oom. And priest who is oom can't do anything. At this point, the best guilds have properly geared priests, but a million of other guilds doesn't. Such guilds can take disc priests that'll do the job, won't go oom and will heal the people.

    Yes, raid encounters are easy now, so you can basically bring shadow priest and force him to heal if needed. I wouldn't say that disc is a waste. On encounters where there's no healing for some brief time (Loatheb) - discipline has the upper hand, just due to the fact that damage is mitigated trough shield that absorbs more damage and due to ability that enables to squeeze more healing spells within smaller time-window.

    My post was never about disc > holy, but about that disc = viable and suited for the task. Also, holy is a very potent healer, doing massive heals which result in massive overheals. For example, your most common Patchwerk setup cosits of 7 healers. Will there ever be a case that your greater heal, which crits for 20K, will be effective in its full amount? No, simply because there's other 3-4 healers spam-healing your target, overlaping your heals. You can only hope that you're lucky to land a heal at exact millisecond when damage spike occurs.

    So what did you bring to the table for Patchwerk if you go as holy? Practically nothing except huge heals and one-time tank saver. What did Disc bring? Damage mitigation and fast heals on top of DPS increase trough PI-ing a raid member. So in this particular encounter, Disc > Holy in terms of raid value.

    There's a number of encounters where it doesn't matter if you can heal for 20K in 2.5 seconds, but if you can heal 15K in 1.2 seconds on a single target when needed. That's where Discipline will, and does, prevail - thus it's viable. I wouldn't bring more than 1 disc to current PvE content, but I'd definitely take them on.

  15. #15

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyChris
    hi my main isnt a priest its a holy pala but i have a question to ask about priests who are specced for spirit.
    basicly there is a priest in my guild who raids with us and he is speced 51 / 20 / 0 (i dont know alot about priests just to let you know) is there a specc that wont gimp healing as much but still lets you get the spirit buff because this specc looks alot like a pvp specc.
    Divine Spirit is to be honest, not really that good anymore.
    The buff itself, which gives everyone 80 spirit, isn't too bad, that I admit.
    But a warlock will give everyone 64 spirit. These two buffs do not stack.

    Improved Divine Spirit also gives 80 spelldamage.
    This unfortunately is completely overwritten by a shaman totem, making the talents spent on ImpDS wasteful.
    The Spirit buff is good. ImpDS is pointless.

    But you have to ask yourself, is those 16 spirit worth the loss in deep holy?
    It's the equivalent of a gem in terms of itemization. It will cost you Guardian Spirit.
    Personally, I think the choice is easy; GS simply rocks and is pretty much the only utility a holypriest brings to a raid. Even if it is hard to use.

    Imo, save the Spiritbuff for a discipline priest in your raid - if you have one. for him, Spirit is well worth picking.
    If you don't have any discipline priest, you haven't missed a lot anyway.

    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  16. #16

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawlin
    Discipline priests are a waste in any 25 man that is currently available. 14/57/0 is what all priests should be healing with. Holy priests can keep up a Single target much better than Discipline priests. Discipline is just good in one thing and heals 20% less that holy, that's just terrible... Maybe 21/50 for spirit buff but Imp Spirit not needed.
    Well isn't someone pissy? You're comparing holy and disc as if they have the same functions. Disc is a tank healer in the same capacity as a holy paladin. Highly efficient small/mitigating heals that maintain the tank's health through minor damage with larger, less efficient long bombs for when the damage pours on.

    Holy functions as both an AoE and single target healer, not as efficiently as others, but damn well provided you understand how to manipulate the FSR.

    In the same way that the pally/priest combo worked before this, now you could replace Pally with Disc priest.

    Also I would point out that you were either dealing with a shitty disc priest or a holy priest that just swapped without changing any of his/her gear out or understanding how his/her healing strategy would change

  17. #17

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    So I look at all the talk about how good holy is
    And think about how good it will be with a 6sec Coh
    And realise one thing

    Better get your raid used to not using those holy priests the way you do atm

    And for the guy convinced that Disc is not as good at keeping up single target - sorry you are flat wrong.
    I have crap gear. No - not crap gear the way most of you guys think about it - worse than that - really really bad. I just haven't played enough to sort it out. But I can still do a more effective job as a MT healer than most of the holy priests i have grouped with - just because I can last about 2x as long.

    Sure right now Holy is great for raid heals. But with the proposed 6 sec CoH cooldown it looks pretty ordinary.

  18. #18

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    frig holy... disc is the most fun i've had as a healer in ages.
    It's just a game.

  19. #19

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyChris
    he is speced 51 / 20 / 0 (i dont know alot about priests just to let you know) is there a specc that wont gimp healing as much but still lets you get the spirit buff because this specc looks alot like a pvp specc.

    Only going 51 in Disc means he is missing a lot of good talents. The disc tree is bloated... I've seen some good Disc priests only doing 13 into Holy. (5/5 Spec, 5/5 Divine Fury, 3/3 inspiration - SKIPPING Renew since Disc really doesnt have room/need for renew)

  20. #20

    Re: A question to all the holy priests

    I leveled and disc, and then did a bunch of heroics, then decided to go back to holy til I was well geared. Anden i messed up the spec, 3 times, lol.

    I found that you can get CoH, and spirit buff but you need to loose alot to do this, and after playing around(unintentionally) there are heaps and heaps and heaps of ways you can spec the holy tree. I would have to say that I think that it depends on play style, I know this is no help, but if you die alot, you might want spirit of redemption etc.

    I would recommend a holy build if you have pallies, no spirit buff. at least until geared, if you have no pallies and enough priests, should have at least one disc, or at a minimum, one with a spirit buff.

    Hope this helps.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •