#1 Pre Req for Nerfs...

[Xterra]

...Is mindset. Rewind to patch 2.1 at the end of Vanilla WoW. New 41 pt talents. Headlines go as followed: "Hunters and Paladins deemed OP". Why were they deemed OP? Scaling. Hunters scale reasonably well when new implementations are made to the hunter class. Its a fact, not a misconception, that hunters, from the beginning in TBC and WotLK were doing high amounts of damage. Blizzard should have allowed other classes to catch up itemization wise before dropping the nerf bomb upon hunters. Example: Rogues took time to mature via combat swords in TBC due to lack of entry level swords. If hunters are doing amazing now, Blizzard didnt have to change hunter abilities or nerf whole trees, they could have done nerfs and buffs silently via gear and stats.

Now in TBC, Blizzard knew they screwed up and slowly implemented itemization for the raiding hunter. From SSC to SW, Hunters changed dramatically. As hunters, we have to take the hit and ride the wave. We are not in control of wave. This nerf may not even be *that* bad, however 20% to 10% SS nerf is a core nerf all around. That officially tanked SV, at least until blizzard decides its a great idea to boost Explosive Shot.

Note to blizzard:
Nerf / buff / nerf / buff
In the end, you still have a player with too many guns and not enough bullets.

[TerryBogard]

Hunters and shaman use the same gear. You cant change the items because it would make the already sub-par enhancement shaman even more sub-par.

/End thread.

[Xterra]

Hunters and shaman use the same gear. You cant change the items because it would make the already sub-par enhancement shaman even more sub-par.

/End thread.

Noted. Obviously you lack far sight. Think ahead then reply.
/Thread Revived.

[SynergySin]

So wait, the other dps classes (such as rogues) get to be useless and depend on guilds to carry them because YOU are doing far too much damage? Oh, they should just wait towards the middle or end of the expansion to be any use at all? RIIIIGHHHTTTT.

[Utal]

So wait, the other dps classes (such as rogues) get to be useless and depend on guilds to carry them because YOU are doing far too much damage? Oh, they should just wait towards the middle or end of the expansion to be any use at all? RIIIIGHHHTTTT.

so we should be nerfed lower than them so we're screwed in starting grades and need to be carried just the same, oh wait.. our nerfs are made on scaling values, so no matter what.. we'll be gimped.

Thank you for your blind insight Rogue.

[TerryBogard]

Noted. Obviously you lack far sight. Think ahead then reply.
/Thread Revived.

No I dont lack far sight, just stating a fact. If it becomes a serious issue then the fix would have to come from somewhere else. Nerfing gear that another class relies on, when that class is already below average, causes a new problem. Therefore this thread isnt the solution

/end thread (again)

[kilssii]

enh. shamans aren't below average, they're doing just fine

[TerryBogard]

enh. shamans aren't below average, they're doing just fine

Oh I am not saying enhancement is terrible. However they are not topping charts. EVER. If you nerf the gear they share with hunters then they would drop them even further down the DPS charts. Not a workable fix.

[kilssii]

true, didn't mean they should fix the issue by nerfing the gear. However for once enh. shamans are on par with other dps-classes/specs.

[vlight]

blizz just doesn't have a clue when it comes to balance.

and less of a clue when scaling is made a factor.

there were devs all over the beta boards posting about how their internal dps tests were made with every spec of every class, against all different types of targets, with buffs/debuffs and without, at all different levels of gear.

...and while they posted that.. there were players dumping meters and stats from raids that showed some very very different results.

everyone knew ret paladins were way way way overtuned before 3.0 hit, same was true for you hunters.

..and that's just the dps side of things

..everyone knew DK survivability was way out of line too

as much as the beta testers (myself included) wanted things changed before release, it just didn't happen, and now we're seeing abilities cut in half, actually the IBF nerf is more than halving the ability.. there's no justification for letting something -that- good go live, and further no justification for neutering an ability in the game that's been live for so long.

it's just bad development.. or really a lack of.

[Heck]

...Is mindset. Rewind to patch 2.1 at the end of Vanilla WoW. New 41 pt talents. Headlines go as followed: "Hunters and Paladins deemed OP". Why were they deemed OP? Scaling. Hunters scale reasonably well when new implementations are made to the hunter class. Its a fact, not a misconception, that hunters, from the beginning in TBC and WotLK were doing high amounts of damage. Blizzard should have allowed other classes to catch up itemization wise before dropping the nerf bomb upon hunters. Example: Rogues took time to mature via combat swords in TBC due to lack of entry level swords. If hunters are doing amazing now, Blizzard didnt have to change hunter abilities or nerf whole trees, they could have done nerfs and buffs silently via gear and stats.

Now in TBC, Blizzard knew they screwed up and slowly implemented itemization for the raiding hunter. From SSC to SW, Hunters changed dramatically. As hunters, we have to take the hit and ride the wave. We are not in control of wave. This nerf may not even be *that* bad, however 20% to 10% SS nerf is a core nerf all around. That officially tanked SV, at least until blizzard decides its a great idea to boost Explosive Shot.

Note to blizzard:
Nerf / buff / nerf / buff

In the end, you still have a player with too many guns and not enough bullets.

Yes, hunters are getting nerfs. But your main complaint is actually a misinterpretation of what's actually happening. Serpent's Swiftness is getting nerfed... for pets. The fact that they get benefits from this talent is new. But the 20% to 10% nerf only applies to pets. So it's still an overall buff to damage compared to how the talent functioned in TBC.

Like you said earlier, you'll really need to "ride the wave" and see where this is all going. I'd suggest testing out the changes on the PTR before they go to live and give constructive feedback if you find something "unacceptable".

[TerryBogard]

I think it has a lot to do with representation within Blizzard and class population makeup. Certain classes have better devs than others. Some classes have player bases that make it difficult for devs to want to work for them


But in either case every class should be equally represented and balanced. Thats what the developers get paid to do. It would be nice to see them earning those paychecks.

[Kimbald]

Heck, are you sure you're not the one misinterpreting?

Since the next line mentions SV and explosive shot, you might have deducted that SS in the sentence you colored is not serpents swiftness but maybe steady shot... that's what getting reduction from 20% ap bonus to 10%

[soloerofdoom]

So wait, the other dps classes (such as rogues) get to be useless and depend on guilds to carry them because YOU are doing far too much damage? Oh, they should just wait towards the middle or end of the expansion to be any use at all? RIIIIGHHHTTTT




This comment is absolutely correct. In every game there will ALWAYS be superior weapons for ONE class at ONE certain time. What the hell do you think is going to happen to a Ret Paladin who gets frostmourne or other Top end gear? They're going to be highest on dps most likely, and people are going to bitch and complain like they always do to nerf the class.

Clearly blizzard has made some classes a bit more powerful than others, but that's too damn bad. What is the point of creating something only to take it away and piss everyone off repeatedly as Blizzard continues to do? What needs to happen is that Blizzard needs to put out more powerful weapons for OTHER classes, to raise their dps...and if needed, make the encounters much more challenging so that the HIGHER dps done by more classes can be compensated for by bosses with either more hit points, or a faster enrage timer.

Rogues were top dps for awhile, as well as destruction locks...now they are not, and so they can't take it and feel the need to bitch and complain to the blizzard staff, who of course don't want to lose customers and feel the need to make these babies happy. Well its obvious that some people need to just accept some things, and its obvious that Blizzard needs to put out better weapons for other classes so that they can be happy, rather than LOWER classes, and piss everybody off....When Frostmourne or the Ashbringer comes out, I guarantee there's going to be a post here on some pissed off rogue saying theyre not great anymore...too bad, deal with it!

[Knighjen]

Every class hates to be nerfed, but thats why they say this game changes all the time... But what exactly can YOU do about it? I think it was insane that hunters were topping dps charts by a huge margin, but then again how did blizz mess the numbers up that bad? Thats a huge error! nerf/buff/nerf/buff does suck... but just roll with the punches, if they nerfed it too bad, then they will buff again, they do this constantly with every class, the game will never be fully balanced.

[leeunit]

I think we all know what is due here.

QQ

:P