Ulduar difficulty

[talrob]

Ulduar will be the same as malygos don't expect more.

However I don't really think raids have got easier, the players in general have just gotten better and/or we now have a spam of addons to help. Try playing without DBM/Bigwigs. without your raid UI's, without grid or decursive and the game is similar to pre one button decursive days, this was the challenge you imagined was there, if you put mc bosses in the game now without seeing them before you would lol heavily and faceroll them. A boss where all I have to do is dispel the raid? lolool, All I have to do is turn the boss away, break fear and tranq shot it? hahaha.

The other aspect is that with 25 you don't have to take 15 of the idiots you would normally have taken to 40 man. People have often said that the hardest raids were the 'get 40 people with brain' raids, the real raids were a lot easier.

[Kalreth]

I know it's hard to let the tbc-difficulty raid encounters behind, it surely was a pleasure get a boss down after weeks of work, but the game has changed, BUT that doesn't mean that there isn't a place for hardcore raiders anymors. Ghostcrawler has recently posted a blue post where he told that there will be lots of hard modes in ulduar. So don't expect Ulduar to be hard for just downing the bosses, the hard part in ulduar will be the "hard mode" achievements with extra loot. And me as myself will evolve with the game, I like the idea that everyone is able to see the content, but only the famous 5% will be getting the reputation of doing the hard modes. Hopefully they make all the hard modes to be really a challenge, since they are the only hardcore part of ulduar we will see. Some of them with even difficulty with sarth3d, and some of them even harder. GIEF!

There will also be a whole lot of "hard modes" and achievements to test. We're shooting for most all of the encounters to have "hard modes" that allow raids to increase the challenge and reward level if they're up to it. We're pretty pleased with how Sartharion and his drakes worked, and we're going to expand on that idea extensively in Ulduar and future raids.

EDIT: The blue i was referring to: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/12/1390...le-on-ptr.html

[Xenryusho]

I hope it's harder. I'm not making this a casual hardcore arguement. I just hope it takes a month for the first boss to die.

[Bainz]

I hope it's harder. I'm not making this a casual hardcore arguement. I just hope it takes a month for the first boss to die.

Agreed.
They need to make it harder. At least 2 weeks to down a boss, at least.

[biggydeen]

Its all so easy because many guilds are testing the instances before they are even live.(and post tactics on the internet)

How many guilds did Naxx and all the other instances before wotlk was even out ? And yet they claim to cleared all pve content in the first week wotlk was out and calling it easy, thats just lol...

Anyway, instead of looking on the internet for tactics and everything, just go in with the thought:
"hey, lets see what happens"
And many of you will find it pretty hard without knowing what to do.
and what to expect.

The solution looks really simple:

Make a few instances which are really really hard for the "hardcore" raiding guilds.

And on the otherside make some instances for the more casual guilds.

On a side note:

I went to naxx10 last night for the first time. ( last time i was there i was with 39 other people )
So i thought hmm lets go check all ability's from all bosses.
After like 30min i was done.

So when i was actually in Naxx10 it all looked so easy compared to the good old days..
I had the feeling every boss was just tank and spank. we killed all bosses in 3.5 hours with 1 wipe on kelth.

On the other hand its nice that casuals can actually see some "end-game" content.
Although my run was easy i found it fun.

And ofc its easy if you know what to do by just looking on the internet for tactics, or playing on the ptr.

And if its all to easy then just go for the achievements like some people already said, it makes it harder.

[kartu3]

BWL was released early - before many guilds had Rag down. Progression seemed to be a steep climb, but only because of gear: players using pre-epics at lvl60 is a more significant gap than using lvl80 blues vs epics. MC wasn't as long-lived as BWL.

MC wasn't a serious upgrade if you were wearing ZG blues (!)
BWL was tactically harder

And regarding WOTLK difficulty, I'd say screw bunch of elitists (they got no life either way, so they'll stick to wow whatever you do) rather than majority of the player base.

[kartu3]

6-7 hours was enough for them to beat ALL of the raid content, first time through.

Uhm, NO? They've beaten it:
a) 40 men (much harder versions)
b) in WOTLK beta

[kartu3]

They want a challenge with rewards (epics), theres no point of doing an instance with crap gear that you can clear with your real gear. That's not a challenge thats just being stupid.

So you want a challenge or more epix?

Why can't we have another pre-nerf Sunwell type of instance so everyone can stop QQing? I mean, casuals have Naxx, Sar with drakes still to beat, and Malygos. Isn't that enough?

Cause developing it eats a lot of resources and nobody should ever have given a fuck about what elitist 5% think?

[Trieclipse]

Some of these replies are pretty stupid. 2 weeks to down the first boss in Ulduar? Is this Sunwell we're talking about? If Ulduar is this hard, no one will be able to kill Arthas, rofl.

No, Ulduar, and whatever the other secret instance is that is going to be released, will be around SSC/TK difficulty. Nothing super hard, but not something anyone can just waltz through like Naxx either.

Those that want Sunwell-like instances, where guilds try and try for many months and still don't beat all the encounters; You are so sh*t out of luck. There is never going to be an instance like that for the rest of WoW. Those days are over, and you'd better accept it, because you're going to be sorely disappointed if you don't.

Icecrown Citadel and Arthas, which are supposed to be the final instance and encounter in the game, respectively, will be around BT and Illidan difficulty. It won't be easy, but it took most guilds over a month to clear the entire instance. Some guilds were stuck on Illidan for a bunch of weeks.

IMO that's how WoW PvE should be played. BT wasn't hard like Sunwell was hard, but it was enough of a challenge to keep most of the player base occupied for many weeks, if not months. It required a decent bit of coordination and personal responsibility, and most of the dedicated raiders were able to see Illidan die. That sounds like a good game plan to me.

[Bainz]

Some of these replies are pretty stupid. 2 weeks to down the first boss in Ulduar? Is this Sunwell we're talking about? If Ulduar is this hard, no one will be able to kill Arthas, rofl.

Maybe not 2 weeks.
But it needs to take awhile if it is the first time anyone lays eyes upon the first boss.
Instead of just waltzing in and getting him down in 4 attempts.

[kartu3]

I think the best solution would be to implement "hardcore" modes for instances. It would be mostly the same instance, same scripts, but mobs having more HP and hitting harder (= next to no resources needed to tune).

Gear would be, say, +6 ilevel (only marginally better) + "hardcore" achivements. This would make even the "elitists" happy.

[afkalmighty]

I think the best solution would be to implement "hardcore" modes for instances. It would be mostly the same instance, same scripts, but mobs having more HP and hitting harder (= next to no resources needed to tune).

Gear would be, say, +6 ilevel (only marginally better) + "hardcore" achivements. This would make even the "elitists" happy.

I think that's what the 10man/25man stuff was intended to be. Hopefully they'll get it right in Ulduar

[Templar]

I'm probably a player somewhat in the middle of casual/semi-hardcore teritory and would like to see a ramp up in the difficulty in the next instance release. A good 2 weeks to a month of effort is what it should probably take to start progressing through the raid dungeon. But then you don't want it so mind bogglingly difficult the large majority player base cba to try it. As mentioned before the difficult should be ramped up so that the end raid of WoLK should be of at least Sunwell difficulty where it takes a good time and effort to beat.

edit: Forgot to mention that the dungeons themselves might not be difficult but some of the achievements within them will be (3 drakes 10man anyone?).

[Arwyn]

1 or 2 raid nights to down 1 boss (8-10 hours) is fine. 1 or 2 months to down a raid boss (40-80 hours raid time)...seriously...some ppl have a life

[Trieclipse]

Maybe not 2 weeks.
But it needs to take awhile if it is the first time anyone lays eyes upon the first boss.
Instead of just waltzing in and getting him down in 4 attempts.

This is going to vary a lot from guild to guild. Top 2000 guilds will still get the boss down on the first night. Other guilds may take a day or two. Then still others will need the entire week to get their act together.

Some guilds on my server were stuck on Lady Vashj for 3 weeks. My guild took 3 raiding nights to beat her, from first setting our sights on her. We were a Top 2000 World guild (Top 1000 US) so we weren't exactly super amazing, but we all knew how to play our classes.

You can't just generalize the time it will take to beat a boss for a guild. Some guilds will still beat the boss on the first night while others will take the whole week. If you're in the better part of the spectrum, just gotta suck it up and farm the gear. Try to have fun doing it.

[graarrggrr]

I like the way they did it in BC. Make it hard enough that the semi-casual guilds can get it down, but not very fast (by semi casual i mean 4 nights a week, 3-4 hours a night) and once that time is up (a few months) nerf it for the rest. My guild is what i would consider semi casual. We beat TK before they nerfed it, we beat Illidan before it was nerfed, we didn't beat SWP before it was nerfed (much shorter amount of time).

[Trieclipse]

I like the way they did it in BC. Make it hard enough that the semi-casual guilds can get it down, but not very fast (by semi casual i mean 4 nights a week, 3-4 hours a night) and once that time is up (a few months) nerf it for the rest. My guild is what i would consider semi casual. We beat TK before they nerfed it, we beat Illidan before it was nerfed, we didn't beat SWP before it was nerfed (much shorter amount of time).

That isn't semi-casual. That's well into dedicated territory. A semi-casual would be someone who raids 2 nights a week in a 10-man raid.

But I agree with the first part of your post -- Burning Crusade PvE was perfectly designed for the most part. Sunwell didn't need to be included, but the expansion needed some life infused into it. Wrath would have had to come out a lot sooner if Sunwell wasn't released.

[wisher]

Sorry I don't have the time to waste a 1/4 of a day in a virtual world that I'm paying money for.

Then do something else FFS.

Why do you think you have a god given right so see everything in the game only because
you pay for it?

I don't mind that Naxx is easy and doable for casuals. What is bothering me is there is no harder content in the game (don't get started on achievements). Why can't there be content for all kinds of pplayers in the game. Only because you "I don't have time" guys whine that there are things you can't see. Get lost.

[Arwyn]

That isn't semi-casual. That's well into dedicated territory. A semi-casual would be someone who raids 2 nights a week in a 10-man raid.

Indeed. My guild is casual-hardcore and we raid 3 times a week, 4-5 hours every time. In 2 of those raid days we manage to clear Naxx-10 + Sartharion and on the 3rd day we try Malygos (only tried him once this far because the gear of the dps had to improve).

Then do something else FFS.

Why do you think you have a god given right so see everything in the game only because
you pay for it?

I don't mind that Naxx is easy and doable for casuals. What is bothering me is there is no harder content in the game (don't get started on achievements). Why can't there be content for all kinds of pplayers in the game. Only because you "I don't have time" guys whine that there are things you can't see. Get lost.

Get lost yourself. 80% of WoW player-base is casual players. 5% is hard-core. Do you really think they would tune the game for that small 5% instead of having the other 80% left? Go get a life instead...troll. (I wonder what kind of retarded come-back I will get for this )

[Hayro1]

1 or 2 raid nights to down 1 boss (8-10 hours) is fine. 1 or 2 months to down a raid boss (40-80 hours raid time)...seriously...some ppl have a life

So, 10/25 people raiding for 4-5 hours a day for two days vs. 10/25 people raiding for 1-3 hours a day for a month, means the people who spent the two days in have more of a life than the other people? I don't see how that makes much sense, oh well.