Feral Tanking Ring/beck gem Itemisation

[wingcommander]

Hi,

In need of your good advice again. Browsing the thread and stuff I'm seeing numbers of dodge/stam that I haven't reached yet.

I'm sitting at ~29k hps/22k armor/36.5 dodge, self buffed. So I'm looking at my gear, 4/5 T7 (2 are valorous) rest are epix apart from rings and cloak. So according to most posts I am decent, but not the best, but at the moment it is enough for 25 man Obsidian, Most of naxx 25 and of course archavon 25 without problems. Of course I want to achive those 32k / 42% dodge / with 27k Armor. The armor will come bext patch, so just wondering about HP/Dodge.

So heres a couple of thoughts. I'm alchemist, so no imba bracer enchant, but I got the 75 stam trinket. Here are a couple of points where I think there is room for improvement and would like advice / tips if there are any.

1) Rings/Cloak
- So I'm thinking something wrong with my rings/Neck. I'm using stam/str/dodge rings and the same for cloak. Would I be better off using stam/agi rings? I will have a bit more avoidance through agi but less stam.

2) Gems
Red - Perfect Delicate Bloodstones
Yellow - Perfect Enduring <something> ^^ - Gives defeence and stamina, need blue to activate meta.
Blue - Haven't got any yet, but plan on stamina

3) Enchants/Patches
Head - Argent Crusade 37stam + defence one.
Everything else 18 stam armor kits.

Any tips or armory appreciated. At work atm, so I can't link mine till later at home, but if i'm at home on wow ^^ I'm ugug on dreanor if any1 wants to look.

On a side note, I've found gearing in heroics extremely painful and almost gave up feral, but once you start raiding the chance of drops gear will be much better and the fun factor will come back.

Thanks in advance.

[Niisama]

For Feral Druid itemization Rawr is really the best source because it addresses all these questions.

http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr

[wingcommander]

Ok, will take a look.

Thanks!!

[Deleted]

I dont see why you bother with yellow gems, unless you can really get something decent from the socket bonus. Currently, all i have in is +24 stamina gems, and once i get my hands on a headpiece with a meta socket (ive been quite unlucky, but ill head for the Wintergrasp helmet of godlike stamina), ill have one agi/sta gem in. I wouldnt' really gem for defense.

I dont remember my armor self buffed, but i do believe my physical mitigation from armor is at 61% or so. My hp selfbuffed in bear is somewhere near 34,6k with leather drops, craftables and 3/5 T7 hero. My dodge is at 35,5% or so. I really dont see how im going to get 7% more dodge, but seeing as i only do 10 mans, i think im quite finely geared, with still a few upgrades (helmet named above + the stamina weapon enchant in next patch will add another 2100 hp). Maybe when im bored of stacking stamina, ill exchange some gems for agi or dodge rating, but its too much fun to beat our prot warrior, who is a stamina whore himself, on hp all the time :P

Anyways, i dont see a link to your armory (and im not about to guess), but remember that you can get quite far with patches, leg armor, belt sockets (from BS) and, if you are a leatherworker, +90 stamina on bracers

[Alski]

Stacking stam is pointless once your passed about 40k raid buffed, sure rawr says its better but unless your doing something specific that calls for it (sarth with 3 draks) then Agi gems ftw

[arel00]

Stacking stam is pointless once your passed about 40k raid buffed, sure rawr says its better but unless your doing something specific that calls for it (sarth with 3 draks) then Agi gems ftw

Wise bear is wise.

Plus, I'll add, you may want to consider mixing different stats for avoidance.
I'll clarify: if you stack only agility, you'll hit a diminishing return faster than if you'remixing agility, dodge rating and some defese. So regardin your jewelry, I consider a wise choice to have some defense and some dodge rating. I wouldn't make them your first priority (especially defense), but since there are loads of items with those stats, we may aswell make good use of them.

Please note: this doesn't apply to gemming. As Alski said, agility is the way on gems. If you need colors for meta, agi/stamina for blue. You may want to consider (but this really comes later) to use some gems to polish your hit/expertise.

[Alski]

arel00 agi and dodge rating are on the same DR value(because the both effectively add to dodge) >.> and defense is only better once we get past 50% dodge after DR

[arel00]

I didn't say defense is better. I'm saying that not pushing ourselves to agility-only items helps in the long run, and that I wouldn't consider it a "wasted" stat, like many on this forum seem to do.
This applies only to jewelry ofc, as I already said.

Beside being obvious that they boost the same stat, are you sure dodge rating and agility DR is calculated together? It would seem more likely to me (as a programmer, that is :P) that the reverse scaling affects each rating before they add up, not after.
But anyway, I didn't find any test/math on either version, do you have a source on this for me to take a look?

[Alski]

I didn't say defense is better. I'm saying that not pushing ourselves to agility-only items helps in the long run, and that I wouldn't consider it a "wasted" stat, like many on this forum seem to do.
This applies only to jewelry ofc, as I already said.

Beside being obvious that they boost the same stat, are you sure dodge rating and agility DR is calculated together? It would seem more likely to me (as a programmer, that is :P) that the reverse scaling affects each rating before they add up, not after.
But anyway, I didn't find any test/math on either version, do you have a source on this for me to take a look?

been number crunched and confirmed, even the dodge portion of defence suffers the same DR as dodge rating and agi, but yea defence rings, necks and trinkets will always be the way because they just all around better to tank with.

[JFS]

Hello all,
I am unclear in regards to a definitive numerical value placed on 'bear' defense. And from what I believe to understand in this specific thread is that bear base defense of 400 with improved leader of the pack is fine providing that we 'stack' stam and agi until we are above 50% dodge then to gem for defense but to utilize the +dodge/+defense rings and trinkets...

In form I am at 32k armor with 35% dodge and 33k hp self buffed...I have amassed 470 defense and if I am incorrectly gemming (using defense gems)I would really appreciate any help!

Faloni-Emerald Dreams server

[arel00]

To put it simple:

- keep your defense rings, cloak and neck
- regem for agility
- if you're using +defense trinket, change them

On trinkets defense is wasted, there are way better ones. Two quick examples: Essence of Gossamer form Azjol'Nerub heroic, and Valor Medal of the First War from Emblems. If you can go further, and I'd say you can, Defender's Code (which seems to have the upper hand on VMotFW even after the armor change) and Darkmoon Card: Greatness, agility version, if you have any chance to get your hands on the cards.

[xebtria]

so now I hit quite exactly 41k life raidbuffed (36% dodge without procs/on use), I have everything gemmed with stamina for now.
as a bear I think the stam multiplier is 1.59 ... so I need ~63 stamina to achieve this 1k life I have "too much" by the rule of thumb.

sooo... this 63 stamina are quite exactly my 2x 21 stamina and 1x 24 stamina gems I have amongst others... I would still stay with the 32stam/2% armor meta requirements, so this would be no problem.

substitutional for this 65 stamina I would gain 48 agility, with kings 53
so I would gain a bit more than half a percent dodge and crit + 48 armor for the loss of
70 (63+kings) stamina aka 1113 life.

I wonder, if this exchange is it worth... you really think, that for migitaion purpose ~0.6% dodge has the same value as 1,1k life? I somehow really have a problem to believe this...

[Deleted]

Now, yesterday i decided to go with the polar boots, because they are vastly superior to my Slag-Covered Boots (or whatever they were called). With all my stamina gems, i was at 36,x hp *unbuffed* which is quite to my liking. But reading this, i do worry about having too much stamina, but then again, i do not want to lose to much either.

I currently have 8 sockets - no headpiece with a metagem yet. 8x 24 stamina is 192 or 278,4 in bear, which is 2784 hp or 3062 hp with kings. If i switch all of these with 16 agility gems, i will get 128 additional agility (3,07% dodge) or 140 agility (3,4% dodge) with kings.

Would i really want to trade 2784 hp for 3,07% dodge? The dodge is nice, but only against melee mobs. If im dealing with casters, the stamina is my only defense (except ofcourse POTP), and while stamina over avoidence means that the healers will have to heal me more, i cant help worrying about what im losing.

[saibot]

you would really want to trade that hp for dodge. I have full polar fully gemed for stamina for sapphiron fights. Granted its not needed, but when you have 10k its fun to play around with. When i am tanking in raids i nvr have polar on unless its sapp. Granted full polar gives me about 3.8k hp more then the gear its replacing, but i loose 5 percent dodge. That is just waaay to much dodge to justify that. In tanking heroics and raids u will almost always deal with melee damage. Mostly the only time u deal with casters is in trash pulls and then u just run up and smash face.

Consider this. If you were off tanking patchwerk would u really want a measly 3k more hp or another 3 percent chance to dodge that 24k hateful strike thats about to rock ur socks?

I am my guilds mt for raids but i always ot patchwerk since my dodge is high enough to help take heat off the healers.

[Deleted]

Do you have anywhere where i could find the calculations and comparasons on HP vs Agi? Id really, really like to know why i would want to trade all that hp for 3% dodge :P

[xebtria]

ok, i calculated a bit.
I was false with the assumption that 80 agi = 1 dodge, it is 39, 35 with kings.

sooooo... I further calculated what would be if I change my meta from 32stam/2% armor to 21 agi / 3% critdmg and change every stamina gem I have to a pure agi gem except 1 8def/12stam to fulfill the meta requirement:

I would loose 200 stam but gain 133 agi, 12 stam and 8 def.
If I would use 8def/12stam in any yellow slot to get set boni (t7 chest/legguards), I would loose 200 stam but gain 101 agi, 54 stam and 24 def.

so I have currently three choices:
200 stam
133 agi 12 stam 8 def
101 agi 54 stam 24 def

everything w/o blessing of kings, of course.
ATM I use the choice with 200 stamina. But I wonder if this loss (which is about 3,5k life, which is not that small amount...) is worth the gain of the (also not that small) amount of agi...

[Deleted]

I am fairly certain that you would definately want the 2% armor/stamina meta gem above anything

[Stormrage]

Avoidance, Mitigation, Stam are NOT the entire tanking game.


TPS is a _huge_ importanace.

I've actually run into one or two dpers who put my tps in a raid for a run esp when rage starved.

If you've got sexy stats, good dodge, hp, armor. Expertise and hit, crit, and ap are all good stats. I wouldn't drop a ton of AP for a marginal TTL upgrade.

I can push 2200 dps on a good fight (not rage starved, not threat capped because I'm off tanking).

Your dps is just as important as everything else. I can't stand tanks doing under 1500 dps.

[Deleted]

Warriors and paladins dont seem to be doing damage comparable to us, but their threat per damage seems a bit higher so its still on par. A guildmate of mine commented yesterday that "It feels like we're running this heroic with four DPS, where one DPS just happens to tank aswell" :P

Currently, i dont really have any problems with threat - my guildies are pushing me in the beginning of fights in some heroics, namely the dragon packs in VH heroic, but once i get a swipe in, they generally wont be anywhere near to pull it off me. I MT and lead Naxx 10 and like raids in my guild, and i havent seen threat being a problem at all during any fight.

[mgp84]

By rule of thumb, just like in the old days; you are going to want to reach a certain HP level (I quit WotLK but finished SWP and NAX in BC and Classic), 22k and 10k were those buffed levels back then, then focus on avoidance/threat. A good way to achieve avoidance/threat is through agility. I find that after you hit 50% dodge, agility is still a good way to go because if you take a step back and look at your raid, when you hit that point, healers are no longer having big issues healing you but are reaching a point in progression where they have to keep DPS up. Aside from this, your DPS is pushing and pushing those threat limits even more; so when it comes down to it, agility will be a stat that pushes both your threat and your avoidance.
One thing that comes to mind is that you really want to start practicing on better reaction times and your personal awareness levels. Heroics and 5-mans are the best way to polish these up.
Rawr is a golden tool. Use it. Astrylian is an old-school feral from WoW-Vanilla and he knows what he's doing in his models (Bear/Cat).