Fact and Fiction

[FireBorne]

So this myth about dw sucks has to end now...right now. I PREFER 2H over dw but last night i specced dw/frost just to see if i could get some decent dps numbers and it was awesome 5k howling blast crits. I put out alot of dmg as blood(my fav) and unholy(dont like it that much but the aoe is ungodly) blood is more fun for my playing style frost seems to be a mix of both(good single target and good aoe) and can be very viable for raids imo...i know someone will say i'm living a pipe dream but these are the some ppl that say blood cant compete with unholy and unholy cant single target dps very well...i proved those myths wrong so before you believe in some stupid cookie cutter spec or hearsay try it for yourself and see...you may be suprised like i was

TY for reading my mini wall of text...too sleepy for correct grammar

[Starcrossed]

Old news.

Very old news.

Im assuming you've been hearing this silly prejudice from people who don't actually play the class.
People have an overall impression of DKs based on forums, old ideas, and the incredible array of terribad DKs out there.

There are no bad DK specs (within reason) but many bad DKs.

Unless your talent choices are completely thoughtless you should be within striking distance of just about any other spec as long as the gear disparity isn't too great. Of course there are the TOP DPS specs...and frost will usually be a little behind, but it should not be enough to disuade you from playing as frost if that's the playstyle you enjoy.

I've had groups laugh at me for being frost and saying they don't need another tank in the group only for me to more then adequately prove myself. Anyone still clinging to the Blood for Single Target, Unholy for AoE, Frost for Tanking mindset is severely limiting the potential of the class. It is true that each is true to the degree that sometimes in those particular situations they excel over the other specs, but the game does not revolve around one type of encounter all the time so why should I be forced to spec for only one kind of encounter. Silly. Very silly.

Now if you want to talk PvE vs PvP that's a different conversation, but in terms of PvE DPS...pick the spec you like...master the spec...never apologize for your decision.

[FireBorne]

^ Smartest reply I've ever read on this site. Good to know that someone else can see what i see

[Starcrossed]

Check out threads featuring Gomexus\"Gyx" as well. He has a good head on his shoulders and a firm grasp of the class's potential.

[Gomexus]

Suksendal you literally made me blush irl lol.

Thanks for the compliment I appreciate it immensely, although, I must admit my knowledge/insight has come from a myriad of sources on these boards. Arguments, theorycrafting, speculation, these are all wonderful tools for learning and I am sincerely hoping we can continue to have such discussions .

[frozenpatato]

Yay, fellow intelligent Death Knight players!

On the topic: I must agree with Starcrossed (suksendal).

People were like "wtf u unholy cannot tank" or "Be frost spec and you'll become a good tank" or anything similar.

All the specs are good, but some are better than others for certain situation.

People need to understand this concept, or Death Knights will be overloaded by sterotypes.

[Starcrossed]

All of our knowledge comes from various sources. The important part is being able to weed the good from the bad advice and drawing your own conclusions based on what you learn.

Also...not freaking out like some people have over the bone shield and IBF "perceived nerfs" and being willing to test and experiment.

The MMO-Champion DK community lacks the depth of experience that is found on some of the beta tester DK forums that I frequent, but I just thought I should point out at least one person who seems to "get it".

[Minders]

Suksendal you literally made me blush irl lol.

Thanks for the compliment I appreciate it immensely, although, I must admit my knowledge/insight has come from a myriad of sources on these boards. Arguments, theorycrafting, speculation, these are all wonderful tools for learning and I am sincerely hoping we can continue to have such discussions .

It takes skill to put together information from a number of sources and turn it into a comprehensible image of the class.

[Gomexus]

Gonna start a new thread about the OP's topic because it is something that needs to be adressed formally imo. I think we, as a community, have been unjustly limiting the class by ruling out DW as an option for tanking and dps'ing.

Looking at skills/numbers it's not entirely true...but it does have a large gray area of misunderstanding, which I personally believe is caused by rogue's/warrior's attempting to increase white damage at the end of TBC to further min/max dmg output.

[danzaedge]

theres alot of ppl on these forums and in game that have no idea about the class they are playing. TBH i find it pretty funny. Ive group'd with dks in game and i look at ther spec and its terribad and i look at ther gear and they have liek atk power gems instead of str but usually i take tiem to talk to them after and help. I take my info from a variety of info test it out either by crunching numbers or by playin with it in game. I'm a tank so i cant talk more on that side i havnt dps'd in a raid ive just been tanking. Ive used 2 specs one frost and one unholy they both work really well. In all DK is down to which spec suits you and your play style

Unholy build
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xZhg0zZfgMG00ogeMocsut

Frost build
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0xZGgxzIcd0hkVsstcgM

i like them both very much and had fun playing each. Im gunna go with unholy just because i like it a little more.
For pvp im still up in the air bout the final pieces of my spec im gunna duel wield only becuase ive always wanted to and it will be fun ( i used to play a caster ) I wanan go mostly into unholy for pvp. Im not a big pvp'er so im jsut lookin for something to have fun with.

[danzaedge]

and another thing is the DEF cap. Its not hard to get to 540 i had no problem getting it i dont understand why ppl are complaining so much. Just gotta know where to get the gear and get your rep up with the right factions

[Vorpal]

It is well known that the spec you like is the one you will play best, forcing someone was never a solotion especialy in a class that offers so many different ways of doing the things you like.

Imagine specs like, Pure unholy or pure blood, a frost blood the tri-spec and so on. Each of them unique but all in the very same class. It would be so bad if one of them was better or if it was 'believed' to be better. For once Blizzard made a class that you can be good, you can be great WITH the spec you like.

[Starcrossed]

Its not hard. Its just frustrating that other classes can waltz into instances in quest blues with no enchants and most DKs are finding they need to have every slot with DEF items enchanted with DEF and socketed with DEF.

Its not hard. But it is harder then it should be comparatively speaking.

I don't mean tanking. Tanking is fun and fine where it is difficulty-wise. I mean gearing for tanking.

[Abandon]

I did have one question about dual-wield actually. If you were tanking with it, how much expertise would you need to reduce the parry chance to what a warrior tank would usually have to face? Note I am not asking how much to remove the parry chance entirely, just to make it what healers can currently deal with on warrior tanks?

[danzaedge]

yea you gotta put a small effort but i read soem of these posts and its like omg we cant get d'capd

and tanking is a blast

I hit 80 ran some reg 80 instances and dps heroics for 3 days and by that time i had gotten enough gear and rep to have 540
and its not like the enchants cost that much for the mats. also im a bs so i can add my own sockets which helps

[Starcrossed]

On dual wield I can't speak to how much expertise you need. But keep in mind Expertise reduces the chance that your attacks are parried...not increases your chance to parry incoming attacks. So whether or not you have expertise does not affect your incoming damage. It affects your threat generation.

[danzaedge]

it does affect ur damage intake in a way. if a boss parries ur atk there swing timer is reduced so u can get hit twice fast

[Starcrossed]

Ah. Good point. I had forgotten about that.
Tanking is my weak point. This is the first time I've played a class in a tanking role.

Also.... 100 posts!

And now a little reflection on my posting career at MMO-Champion.

As a game designer and artist I have found that I enjoy talking about games more then playing them at times. While I am usually found in threads defending Blizzard's artistic choices and design philosophies I have also popped up in the Shaman forum from time to time all through the TBC era when I was playing as Starcrossed.

Now Im almost excusively in the DK forum and have been since my experiences in beta.
I want to thank all the little people who made this possible. Also the Logitech company for providing me with my trusty keyboard and mouse. And last but not least Verizon FiOS for keeping me connected and my lovely Mother.

Thank you...thank you.

[danzaedge]

yea this is my frist tanking class aswell. althougth i did have soem fun tanking with my shaman.

yea i said it. During bc i had picked up a bunch of tanking gear ie weapons shield and trinkets. From various kara runs i lead while helping ppl gear up. I used that gear plus Arena gear to tank with my shaman i didnt do it all the tiem i just did it once in kara and once in za. I used a resto spec with some points into enhance. enhacne used to have a crazy sheild talent and they have the 5% dodge as well. so i got that and then i got down to earth shield on resto tree. i woudl pull with lighting bolt and use frost shock and then heal myself to generate aggro. it worked pretty well i didnt main tank i OT. It was all in good fun :P

[danzaedge]

as for expertise

to be dodge capped its 26 expertise ( not rating) which equals 6%

ther really isnt a cap for parry tho

heres soem info i found-

While Threat wise Expertise might equal Hit Rating after 26 Expertise Skill, it’s other major benefit is still working as good as ever. Reducing a bosses chance to Parry is very powerful because when a boss Parries one of your attacks, just like you, his next attack is going to come up to 40% faster. For this reason, no amount of Expertise Skill really is ever enough and this is also why you should not let any dpsers attack the boss in the front. (There parried attacks will speed up the boss’ attacks too!)