View Poll Results: Which one do you prefer?

Voters
200. You may not vote on this poll
  • Healbot

    72 36.00%
  • Grid+Clique

    128 64.00%
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  1. #21

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    Quote Originally Posted by aminidab
    again all of this is baked into healbot, little to no setup required. havent played with x-pearl but from what I understand it's another heavy setup mod like putbull and grid.
    Yeah but XPerl and Pitbull, IMO, are so much more customizable... and generally more visually appealing.

  2. #22

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    Quote Originally Posted by derevka
    Yeah but XPerl and Pitbull, IMO, are so much more customizable... and generally more visually appealing.
    Agreed
    Been using XPerl for over a year, love it!

  3. #23
    Fatherohealy
    Guest

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    I've seen healers try grid for a day or two then go to healbot because its easier to learn or flashier out of the box. From what I've seen those same people that didn't have the patience to stick with grid also tend to be lower on the healing and dispel meters then grid users who took the time to learn and configure it.

    For people wondering why it's better one reason amongst probably many others may be that its so small and simple you're able to process information faster and react quicker than you would with the more visually appealing healbot and xpearl. For this to apply to you, you have to actually use it for more than 1 or 2 raids though.

  4. #24

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatherohealy
    I've seen healers try grid for a day or two then go to healbot because its easier to learn or flashier out of the box. From what I've seen those same people that didn't have the patience to stick with grid also tend to be lower on the healing and dispel meters then grid users who took the time to learn and configure it.

    For people wondering why it's better one reason amongst probably many others may be that its so small and simple you're able to process information faster and react quicker than you would with the more visually appealing healbot and xpearl. For this to apply to you, you have to actually use it for more than 1 or 2 raids though.
    I could see how this may be a decent rule of thumb, but I've outhealed priests and druids that used grid on movement/hands fights (most notibly KJ) while using healbot myself. using a pally.. and they where all old timers that where known for being skilled at playing the respective class

    Quote Originally Posted by derevka
    Yeah but XPerl and Pitbull, IMO, are so much more customizable... and generally more visually appealing.
    This still doesnt work for me, because it's pretty and takes longer to set up means it's better? does the same thing, again nobody has mentioned anything that any one of these can do that the others can't. I'm willing to admit it's a matter of preference, and I prefer healbot. at least until someone prooves me wrong. yes I only used grid for about 3 raids, and still didnt have it set up how I liked it even then, after reading 3 manuals on it. reinstalled healbot changed about 4 settings and went back to healing.

  5. #25
    Fatherohealy
    Guest

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    Quote Originally Posted by aminidab
    yes I only used grid for about 3 raids, and still didnt have it set up how I liked it even then, after reading 3 manuals on it.
    This pretty much sums up people that don't use grid. You tried it and for whatever reason you couldn't set it up or get used to it in a short amount of time. People that can and did, tend to say grid is better. It's not exactly the best selling point for other raid frames. From what I've seen you wont find many people that used grid for a while then switched to healbot or xpearl and say its better. However you can find a decent amount of people that used healbot or xpearl and once they finally got used to grid wont go back.

  6. #26

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    1. It has definitely been covered that Grid is "prettier" than Healbot. I'm not going to argue, I do think it looks more streamlined.

    2. We know that with Grid, if you want the functionality that I am looking for you have to also have Clique and DoTtimer, plus all the little add-ons for Grid. With Healbot(assuming I can figure out my decursing problem) all you need is the 1 mod.

    3. It's been said over and over that Grid can do the same stuff as Healbot and MORE. But not a single person has stated what additional abilities Grid has other than customizing the "look".

    4. Just because someone chooses to use a more simple add-on does not mean that he or she is a noob. More complex does not necessarily mean better. That goes for things everywhere around you, not just in a game. Melvinhaze you aren't constructive at all so please go troll DK forums...

    Fatherohealy stated that people who use Healbot tend to be lower on the healing meters. Well, I'm the only person in my guild that uses it and I'm always either 1st or 2nd out of 8...so I don't think basing it on healing meters alone is a way to say Grid or Healbot is better than the other. The only way I would be convinced by that argument is if someone used Healbot for a long period of time then switched to Grid and had a consistent, noticeable increase on their healing output.

    I can agree that Grid being smaller and more simple could contribute to a faster reaction time. However, you can resize the Healbot bars all you want too, they just again don't look as "pretty" when you do this.

    I'd really like to hear some additional functional abilities Grid has over Healbot. Visual appearances are not my concern here, and if that is the only thing Grid has that is better please say so.

  7. #27

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    Phh, trolling in DK-Forum :P

    Question is...what do you want from your clickable raidframe?
    With Grid/Clique I can see/do the following things with my raidframe:

    1. See HP/Mana
    2. See Raid-Debuffs or whatever
    3. See buffs (if I like to, you can create new buffs/debuffs also)
    4. See if something is out of range/out of sight
    5. (+Clique) Decurse
    6. (+Clique) Buff/Heal
    7. See whoever has aggro
    8. See who is afk/ready/not ready/offline/hostile whatsoever
    9. Ah, I forgot HoTs
    10. I also forgot incoming heals

    But in the end it's also very minimalistic...can't describe it.
    And you can use it with all your chars...I mean...no use for another raidframe, even if you're not the healer. Just resize and adjust.

    But it might be better to have someone you can ask about the main features while configuring. Some guild buddy helped a lot and so did I with a couple of people. The config really looks kind of confusing in the beginning, especially if you've installed too many plugins right from the beginning (what you shouldn't do).
    Take your time...you can get it to work and look okay in a couple of minutes maybe...but you'll always find something to optimize the more you understand. So in the end it takes a long time to be "perfect".
    "This is really happening!"

  8. #28
    Fatherohealy
    Guest

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    First this
    Quote Originally Posted by Devia
    3. It's been said over and over that Grid can do the same stuff as Healbot and MORE. But not a single person has stated what additional abilities Grid has other than customizing the "look".
    Then this
    Quote Originally Posted by Devia
    I can agree that Grid being smaller and more simple could contribute to a faster reaction time. However, you can resize the Healbot bars all you want too, they just again don't look as "pretty" when you do this.
    The point I made was that you can resize healbot and xpearl all you want it's not going to reach the same simplicity and efficiency in a similar amount of space as grid. There's your answer. Take it (or as you've chosen) leave it.

  9. #29

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    I can't use any of them, nor x-perl or anything else. There is something behind my eyes that sort of works like an addon but somehow the information seams to come from that instead of the screen, I'm not sure how it works or where you get one but this thing telepathicly receives information from the computer and works out what is going to happen before it even does.

    Problem is this 'behind my eyes' addon seams to get better over time and develops set pathways for doing stuff which are now only compatible with the default wow interface and find grid pointless with the amount of effort to set up (why isn't it setup like this already btw?). I use visualheal for spotting who is healing what and use decursive for dispelling which is like grid but the 'behind the eyes' addon has gotten used to.

    It might fill a lot of my screen but I like it that way, I have bigwigs shaking my screen and going mental every time I have something like poison on gobbulus and popping up big timers in the middle of my screen when something is happening soon, I have decursive going 'amg amg dispel that sh*t NOW', I have visualheal showing me 'amg this is going to overheal if you finish, /stopcasting'. Grid is just 'naaa its cool man just ignore me, I am a nuclear power station control board with loads of lights that don't really show anything'.

    I think the main problem is that people think the default wow interface is still the basic one they first seen 2 years ago when they used an addon.

    1. See HP/Mana
    2. See Raid-Debuffs or whatever
    3. See buffs (if I like to, you can create new buffs/debuffs also)
    4. See if something is out of range/out of sight
    5. (+Clique) Decurse
    6. (+Clique) Buff/Heal
    7. See whoever has aggro
    8. See who is afk/ready/not ready/offline/hostile whatsoever
    9. Ah, I forgot HoTs
    10. I also forgot incoming heals
    All apart from 10, the default interface can do with a couple of macros.
    'u get constant hit by ice shit from roof so you can travel instantly all across the room'

  10. #30

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    Quote Originally Posted by talrob
    I can't use any of them, nor x-perl or anything else. There is something behind my eyes that sort of works like an addon but somehow the information seams to come from that instead of the screen, I'm not sure how it works or where you get one but this thing telepathicly receives information from the computer and works out what is going to happen before it even does.

    Problem is this 'behind my eyes' addon seams to get better over time and develops set pathways for doing stuff which are now only compatible with the default wow interface and find grid pointless with the amount of effort to set up (why isn't it setup like this already btw?). I use visualheal for spotting who is healing what and use decursive for dispelling which is like grid but the 'behind the eyes' addon has gotten used to.

    It might fill a lot of my screen but I like it that way, I have bigwigs shaking my screen and going mental every time I have something like poison on gobbulus and popping up big timers in the middle of my screen when something is happening soon, I have decursive going 'amg amg dispel that sh*t NOW', I have visualheal showing me 'amg this is going to overheal if you finish, /stopcasting'. Grid is just 'naaa its cool man just ignore me, I am a nuclear power station control board with loads of lights that don't really show anything'.

    I think the main problem is that people think the default wow interface is still the basic one they first seen 2 years ago when they used an addon.

    All apart from 10, the default interface can do with a couple of macros.
    That's pretty impressive that you can put up with using the built-in UI raid frames. I just think they look so ugly that I don't want to stare at them the whole time. :P Do you use clique at all with them then? I don't use the normal frames just because I don't have enough bar space to put all my spells on. When you think about it though it's probably best to use the default UI because of latency - your mods will react a tiny bit slower than the WoW interface would. Kudos to you, but I don't think I could handle that :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatherohealy
    The point I made was that you can resize healbot and xpearl all you want it's not going to reach the same simplicity and efficiency in a similar amount of space as grid. There's your answer. Take it (or as you've chosen) leave it.
    Did you miss part of my post? I said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Devia
    The only way I would be convinced by that argument is if someone used Healbot for a long period of time then switched to Grid and had a consistent, noticeable increase on their healing output.
    THAT'S why your statement didn't convince me. The people who use Grid could just naturally be better healers. Just because they top healing meters and use Grid doesn't mean it's because of the mod. Now, if the Grid and Healbot users traded mods, thus their positions on the healing meters made a complete swap, THEN I would say it was because of Grid.

    Healing meters do not tell you everything about the skill of a player. Healing meters don't demonstrate reaction times, intelligent usage of spells etc. Just like it's been argued here on the forums...a priest spamming CoH can top the meters. That doesn't mean they are skilled...or that due to their pro spamming the mod they use is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvinhaze
    Phh, trolling in DK-Forum :P

    Question is...what do you want from your clickable raidframe?
    With Grid/Clique I can see/do the following things with my raidframe:

    1. See HP/Mana
    2. See Raid-Debuffs or whatever
    3. See buffs (if I like to, you can create new buffs/debuffs also)
    4. See if something is out of range/out of sight
    5. (+Clique) Decurse
    6. (+Clique) Buff/Heal
    7. See whoever has aggro
    8. See who is afk/ready/not ready/offline/hostile whatsoever
    9. Ah, I forgot HoTs
    10. I also forgot incoming heals

    But in the end it's also very minimalistic...can't describe it.
    And you can use it with all your chars...I mean...no use for another raidframe, even if you're not the healer. Just resize and adjust.
    Thank you for being constructive. :P From your list there, the only thing I see that HB doesn't seem to be able to do is show who has aggro. So...I'm going to conclude that it's mostly a matter of personal preference on appearances. But...thanks for all the feedback!

  11. #31

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    I use grid just default as you dl it and I like it alot. I dont use clique either. I like grid cuz its small, I can stick it in the corner of my screen and keep my screen not too cluttered. I used to use Xperl but the raid frames just took up way too much screen. I can get all theinfo I need from a small square why waste extra space

  12. #32

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    Quote Originally Posted by Devia
    That's pretty impressive that you can put up with using the built-in UI raid frames. I just think they look so ugly that I don't want to stare at them the whole time. :P Do you use clique at all with them then? I don't use the normal frames just because I don't have enough bar space to put all my spells on. When you think about it though it's probably best to use the default UI because of latency - your mods will react a tiny bit slower than the WoW interface would. Kudos to you, but I don't think I could handle that :P

    Did you miss part of my post? I said this:

    THAT'S why your statement didn't convince me. The people who use Grid could just naturally be better healers. Just because they top healing meters and use Grid doesn't mean it's because of the mod. Now, if the Grid and Healbot users traded mods, thus their positions on the healing meters made a complete swap, THEN I would say it was because of Grid.

    Healing meters do not tell you everything about the skill of a player. Healing meters don't demonstrate reaction times, intelligent usage of spells etc. Just like it's been argued here on the forums...a priest spamming CoH can top the meters. That doesn't mean they are skilled...or that due to their pro spamming the mod they use is better.

    Thank you for being constructive. :P From your list there, the only thing I see that HB doesn't seem to be able to do is show who has aggro. So...I'm going to conclude that it's mostly a matter of personal preference on appearances. But...thanks for all the feedback!
    actually healbot DOES show who has aggro, I need to jump on this while I'm at home tonight so I can explain where to set it. but i get big arrows around the name when someone gets/pulls aggro.

  13. #33

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    just out of curiosity what version of healbot are you using? I want to make sure the directions I'm going to find out for you tonight match the version

  14. #34

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    I'm following this thread with interest as I am a pally healer who uses healbot and I'm more than happy with it.

    I have considered lately to experiement with grid and clique however I have not tried either yet.

    As the original poster says it seems (from what i've read so far) both are similar in a lot of ways and neither does one thing amazingly better than the other. I am getting the feeling that one of the main reasons people think / talk about grid being better is probably because they have spent more time adjustiing it & tweaking it to the way they play and because of this they grow more attached to it. It's there's, they made it the way it is and worked hard to get it to work the way they need it to work.

    It is for this reason that people are more willing to sing its praises over healbot... healbot is there.. it does what it needs to do and you have to get used to the way it does it. Grid you have to work at to make it your own and when you have put that work into it you feel more attached to it.

    This is only my opinion of course and I will be trying out the grid + clique way of doing things at some point in the future.
    We dont stop playing because we grow old,
    We grow old because we stop playing

  15. #35

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    I have always used SmartDebuff as it does about all I need.

    I guess if I tried HealBot and Grid I could get used to it, but old add-on's are hard to break that and SD is configured the same way ( at least for my play style I guess )

  16. #36

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    So...I'm going to conclude that it's mostly a matter of personal preference on appearances.
    Sure it is...but I do think that appearance is important, especially when functionality appears to be similar.
    Also...I wouldn't like to use another raidframe with my mage for example. Or my feral druid. With Grid and the help of Clique I can buff/decurse/give innervate/root or sheep hostile raid members, etc. just with one small click on my raidframe and keep my focus on what's going on.
    Sure Grid looks completely different on my non-healer-chars, very small cubes then with less information, but then again no damage dealer really cares about HoTs or stuff...
    "This is really happening!"

  17. #37

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    Quote Originally Posted by aminidab
    actually healbot DOES show who has aggro, I need to jump on this while I'm at home tonight so I can explain where to set it. but i get big arrows around the name when someone gets/pulls aggro.
    This is the Healbot I use: http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...continued.aspx
    If there is a different version please let me know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serentis
    I have always used SmartDebuff as it does about all I need.

    I guess if I tried HealBot and Grid I could get used to it, but old add-on's are hard to break that and SD is configured the same way ( at least for my play style I guess )
    I will have to look into that.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvinhaze
    Also...I wouldn't like to use another raidframe with my mage for example. Or my feral druid. With Grid and the help of Clique I can buff/decurse/give innervate/root or sheep hostile raid members, etc. just with one small click on my raidframe and keep my focus on what's going on.
    Sure Grid looks completely different on my non-healer-chars, very small cubes then with less information, but then again no damage dealer really cares about HoTs or stuff...
    Actually, Healbot can be used for any class too. You can set it up for various potions - different buttons can be different types of potions - you can also do this with bandages. And, of course, you can use it to decurse/buff as a mage or anything else too. Again, no differences here, although I don't believe Clique allows you to set up binds for bandages/potions but I could be wrong.

  18. #38

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    here is your instructions on debuffs:

    Cure tab
    Monitor to remove debuffs and in combat: set these options to monitor.
    Spell to debuff: set the spell you would use, ie. Remove Curse would monitor for Curse. *Note. these are the spells SmartCast will use, to use a spell in combat you must set it on the spells tab, by default Alt+Left and Alt+Right will have a spell set.
    Ignore Debuff: Options to ignore debuffs not normally decused, see below.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Health bar colours: Change the members bar to this colour when affected by a debuff. The colour can be changed by clicking on the bar.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Debuff Warnings: options for giving warnings when a members has been affected by a debuff.
    Ignore Debuffs options:
    - Irrelevant by class: Debuffs should as mana effect on warriors/rogues. - Non harmful effect: Debuffs which do no harm, such as Hunter's mark. - Short duration: Debuffs which only last for a few seconds. - Slow movement effect: Debuffs which only effect movement speed.



    to show who has aggro go under the general tab and click on "monitor aggro" then you can choose between show text or flash bar. I use the show text it adds ">>>player name<<<" in the frame for who has aggro.

  19. #39

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    Been using Healbot for about 3 yrs now with pala, priest and drood, and can honestly say its the best, it's a complete package, no need for grid (plus 5 miniaddons), rez monitor, Decursive and any other extra addons todo the simple task of 1 addon :
    Oh, and regarding people lower on "healing meter's" because of using HB instead of Grid, I find that insulting, I've always been in top 2 on healing meter's regardless of what content, right back to the good old days of MC/BWL.

  20. #40

    Re: Healbot vs. Grid+Clique

    I've been using x-perl raid frames since I could remember. I think I used CTRaid frames in classic MC//BWL until I fell in love with x-perl. My healers in my guild tell me to use grid, but I just don't like the way it looks.

    We are creatures of patternistic behavior we don't like to change our eating habits nevermind our WoW UI's :P

    Everything I need is on x-perl and it has never let me down. I don't like the idea of clicking to cast. Mouse over macro's work just fine for cleansing. I know what you are going to say, i am losing .05 of a second by clicking nameplate then pressing a keyboard button. This is true, but I am used to it. I don't like the idea of just using my mouse to do all my work. The mouse is like my handle, and the keyboard is like my barrel. You get me?
    Healing isn't something you can calculate. It's an art.

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