Thread: Armor (nerf?)

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  1. #21
    Field Marshal deathsclaw's Avatar
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    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Natgul
    Like the LIVE Druid position, the next patch comes with a big bost, not a nerf, L2count:

    You have now armor formula = ALL ITEM AF X 1,1 x 4,7 X 1,02 = 5,27

    An example: 350 neck+463 ring + 480 ring + 348 back+ 700 staff + 1.400 (2 trinket) + 3.500 leather item = 35.720,06

    After patch the multipler will be: Cloth+Leather AF X 1,1 X 4,7 X 1,02 x 1,66 = 8,75 + Accessories AF

    So, Acc. = 350+463+480+700+1400 = 3.393
    Wearable Item = 3.500 + 348 = 3.848

    Result: Total AF = 3.393 + (3.848*8,75) = 33.670,00 + 3.393 = 37.063,00

    Why you still talk about nerf?
    That is what i found when i logged onto the PTR where the change is LIVE. My armor went up not down using the same items. I was afraid that the amount of armor from items (not clothing) was going to impact the numbers. It didn't, there was enough compensation in the calculation to make it flat, but then i could drop 450 armor if i wanted to take a different item with more stats. Thus making it so i don't have to focus solely on armor mitigation when its available. I can look for other items.

    I was upset about the change but now I am a believer! If you have questions, download the PTR (takes all of 10 min from the WOW website) and check it out yourself.

    DPS Boomkin / Feral Tank

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans arel00's Avatar
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    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    (edit) ill leave my old post here im not scaird of being incorrect, i was able to finnally get into the test realm (apparently my name was invalid and had to enter a new one) and my armor value did go up, even with the 70 rings on (which will soon as this hits live be replaced by agi/expertese and str/def+dodge rings that had a lot more sta on them. thank you for puting up with me while i still find the math wonky if thats how they want to do it ill gladly take the 5k increse in armor.
    Sir, my respect for this part of the comment.

    By the way, I'll try to break down the math just for the sake of knowledge, and for those who may later look at the fromulas

    Every % increase you get in the game, in this case as well as damage reductions, are factors multiplied one by the other. You figured it out, but you did a slightly wrong formula. Thing is, you don't have to multiply the % values, you have to multiply the increasing factor.
    Let me put it down, you wrote:

    so your doing 370%x10%x66%x2% = the mod to go to your armor. which does = 8.75%
    Which is how they add up. But you get to convert it into the effective factors before you do the math. That is, 370% increase from Dire Bear means, your regular armor, plus 370% more on top of it. In numbers: 100%+37'%=470%. Basue value x that means Bear armor. Wihtout the percentages it's 1+3,7=4,7.

    Your formula thus becomes: 4,7(direbear)*1,1(thick hide)*1,66(SotF)*1,02(meta gem) = 8,75
    Your error was it's not 8,75%, then 8,75 becomes a whole nice 875% multiplier.
    Say you have a 500 armor chest, it's 500*875%=4375.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  3. #23
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    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    It seems very strange to me as well that the +armor bonus percentages of talents, bear form, and meta gems are multiplied by one another instead of added together then multiplied by the base armor on the items. But if this is the way it is being done by Blizzard then so be it, and case closed. Thank you for the extra armor.

  4. #24

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Bears may or may not be in a better position after the patch, but Moonkins are indirectly nerfed again no question. I lost around 600 armor on the PTR due to Iron-Bound Tome http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38322 (a perfect starter PvP item) no longer being multiplied, and we get no talent to make up for the loss. I know 600 isn't much but it's kind of comical to nerf our armor right now, when PvP survivability is such a big issue.

  5. #25

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tir
    Bears may or may not be in a better position after the patch, but Moonkins are indirectly nerfed again no question. I lost around 600 armor on the PTR due to Iron-Bound Tome http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38322 (a perfect starter PvP item) no longer being multiplied, and we get no talent to make up for the loss. I know 600 isn't much but it's kind of comical to nerf our armor right now, when PvP survivability is such a big issue.
    unlesss they are giveing them something your in the same boat as a dk. they are also no longer going to have bonus armor modifications based upon frost pressence. Though they proably wont use that much in pvp unless they are sure they will only find a melee and not a caster waiting for them.
    warriors get rust, pallys cant hear you in that bubble, death knights are screaming about voices, druids? were trying to get whats left of your face off our claws.

  6. #26
    Pit Lord Alski's Avatar
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    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doodad
    unlesss they are giveing them something your in the same boat as a dk. they are also no longer going to have bonus armor modifications based upon frost pressence. Though they proably wont use that much in pvp unless they are sure they will only find a melee and not a caster waiting for them.
    their 8 pieces of plate gear will still get the frost presence bonus, its just the rings/trinkets/amulets that wont get the multiplyer (exactly like the druid change)

  7. #27

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    yes but in exchange we get the 66% from sotf, if they are not also geting a buff some where then they are like boomkins when it comes to this change is what i ment.
    warriors get rust, pallys cant hear you in that bubble, death knights are screaming about voices, druids? were trying to get whats left of your face off our claws.

  8. #28
    Pit Lord Alski's Avatar
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    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doodad
    yes but in exchange we get the 66% from sotf, if they are not also geting a buff some where then they are like boomkins when it comes to this change is what i ment.
    they already have things like IBF and BS to reduce damage, sure it effects them a little but no where near the extent that it effects bears because our multiplier is so much higher.

  9. #29

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    i doubt there is any druid who will lose armor by these changes -

    take your base armor - subtract any rings/neck/trinket armor - maybe even cloak armor if it is green

    lets say for sake of ease you have 5000 armor not counting trinkets rings cloaks etc....

    5000 X .10 = 500 (add this to the 5000)
    5500 X .66 = 3630 (add this to the 5500)
    9130 x .02 = 182.6 (add this to the 9130)
    9312.6 X 3.7 = 34,457

    same math excluding the new 66% and its like 20k armor total - i highly doubt anyone has 14k armor in there rings and trinkets etc...

    say you hav e 2500 from rings/trinkets/neck etc - (2500 being pretty generous) multiply it by the bear form and the thick hide and you add roughly 10k armor


    this will be a pretty nice buff for most - esp those ferals who never got the nice trinkets rings necks etc - it will be a HUGE buff for those without such items

    i hope i didnt miss anything mathematically - i was just looking through and i think i got it all right - feel free to correct me if im wrong...

  10. #30
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    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    You just forgot to do the final step. Add 9312.6 to your bear form modifier of 34,457, for a grand total of 43,769!

    I prefer just to add 1.0 to each modifier so you don't have to add the previous number:

    5000 x 1.1 = 5500 x 1.66 = 9130 x 1.02 = 9312.6 x 4.7 = 43,769

    Or you can use Natgul's grand total modifier of 875% or 8.75 to achieve a very similar total: It's off a little because he rounded down his percentage.

    5000 x 8.75 = 43,750

    Inflated armor? I think so, and I don't think this is how Blizzard is going to do this calculation. But if they are multiplying the armor bonuses together then this is the total armor with the appropriate talents & gems that 5,000 armor from leather and cloth items would give us in dire bear form.

    However, if they are only adding the modifiers together (which makes sense to me mathematically) then we achieve :

    1.0 + 3.7 + .66 + .1 + .02 = 5.48 x 5000 = 27,400 armor from 5000 armor in leather & cloth items.

    ------

    As you can see, there is a substantial difference depending on how the formula is calculated. Please keep in mind that I have absolutely no clue how much armor all my leather & cloth gear has in total. I was just using the 5,000 armor used in the previous post. Also any special slot items with armor would simply be added to the grand totals above.

  11. #31

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    at 80 your going to have 800+ agi dont forget to take out the 1600+ armor that gives you from your base, or you could simply add up the totals of all your armor (find cloaks base armor if its green by looking at other cloaks of same item level/quallity) do the modifications to that ture armor base number then add in the agi armor and the accesories bonus armors. sure back in bc agi was not as big of a factor but with the ammount you are able to stack now it is something to take notice of, first time i went in 10 man nax i had over 1k agi due to dk's horn of winter, 10% kings, and our druid buff.
    warriors get rust, pallys cant hear you in that bubble, death knights are screaming about voices, druids? were trying to get whats left of your face off our claws.

  12. #32

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chastise
    i doubt there is any druid who will lose armor by these changes -

    take your base armor - subtract any rings/neck/trinket armor - maybe even cloak armor if it is green

    lets say for sake of ease you have 5000 armor not counting trinkets rings cloaks etc....

    5000 X .10 = 500 (add this to the 5000)
    5500 X .66 = 3630 (add this to the 5500)
    9130 x .02 = 182.6 (add this to the 9130)
    9312.6 X 3.7 = 34,457

    same math excluding the new 66% and its like 20k armor total - i highly doubt anyone has 14k armor in there rings and trinkets etc...

    say you hav e 2500 from rings/trinkets/neck etc - (2500 being pretty generous) multiply it by the bear form and the thick hide and you add roughly 10k armor


    this will be a pretty nice buff for most - esp those ferals who never got the nice trinkets rings necks etc - it will be a HUGE buff for those without such items

    i hope i didnt miss anything mathematically - i was just looking through and i think i got it all right - feel free to correct me if im wrong...
    well you doubted a little too soon then. i'm currently sitting at 3281 base armor from leather pieces, and 3892 armor from ring/trinks/neck/weapon/cloak.

    right now i have ~38.4k armor unbuffed in bear form, after the patch according to your math i will have ~34k armor including agi.

    i would also like to see a bear that has 5k armor from leather (not possible), and only 2500 armor from accessories.

    if you want to armory me, I'm neeples on mal'ganis, but there is no way a bear could get over 3326 armor from leather right now that i know of.

    if you really need to know how much of a nerf this really is, take out all of the naxx accessory drops and replace them with the biggest armor accessories from heroics and 80 dungeons, then do the math with all max ilvl leather pieces. congrats, you lose armor too. weren't we told that only those with the extreme armor accessories from naxx would see a drop in armor? this is really only a buff for anyone that was too lazy to do a few runs of heroic uk, gundrak, and drak'tharon.


  13. #33

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Anyone seeing a nerf is clearing using _tons_ of gear (trinkets/rings/necks) with large ammounts of bonus armor.

    Anyone who is doing this is a complete and TOTAL retard. I can't stress this enough.

    neeples, we were told day one of the xpac that this would happen. You ARE in some of the _best_ druid gear available. You've got the stupid shitty halls of stone neck, both armor trinkets, a bonus armor cloak, the heroic naxx tanking staff. And you wonder why you're losing armor? Really?

    You've made some pretty stupid choices on how you tank gear wise, I must say.

    I'm tanking with about 30k armor now in raids, post patch ill be up to 34k if I use the _exact_ same gear. I can lose a minimal ammount of armor (less than 1k) in exchange for better gear overall (more dodge, more health, more threat).

    I should have just ignored the profile when I saw you were wearing polar gear.

    As far as being too lazy, I ran heroic Magisters, for 40 days stright, and never got a shard of contempt on my rogue. My rerolled ally feral druid got it her second time (her first was commendation, just like my ex-feral druid horde side). Don't you dare say someone is lazy, random loot is random.
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  14. #34

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormrage
    Anyone seeing a nerf is clearing using _tons_ of gear (trinkets/rings/necks) with large ammounts of bonus armor.

    Anyone who is doing this is a complete and TOTAL retard. I can't stress this enough.

    neeples, we were told day one of the xpac that this would happen. You ARE in some of the _best_ druid gear available. You've got the stupid shitty halls of stone neck, both armor trinkets, a bonus armor cloak, the heroic naxx tanking staff. And you wonder why you're losing armor? Really?

    You've made some pretty stupid choices on how you tank gear wise, I must say.

    I'm tanking with about 30k armor now in raids, post patch ill be up to 34k if I use the _exact_ same gear. I can lose a minimal ammount of armor (less than 1k) in exchange for better gear overall (more dodge, more health, more threat).

    I should have just ignored the profile when I saw you were wearing polar gear.

    As far as being too lazy, I ran heroic Magisters, for 40 days stright, and never got a shard of contempt on my rogue. My rerolled ally feral druid got it her second time (her first was commendation, just like my ex-feral druid horde side). Don't you dare say someone is lazy, random loot is random.
    i'm a retard for taking defender's code, cloak of the shadowed sun, and origin? those are best in slot after the nerf too bud, unless you're an alchy, JC, or have managed to get greatness. i have essence of gossamer in my bag to replace offering, but cloak and weapon won't be replaced (sorry you havent gotten them yet). yes, i still have amulet of wills. congrats you got me. haven't seen boundless ambition yet, and i was under the war for heritage.

    i'm glad you don't agree with my gear decisions. i didn't notice you posting your armory link.

    oh, do enlighten me as to whats better than polar boots and belt, both before and after the patch? yes, i have polar vest still, but i haven't gotten valor chest yet.

    anyway my point was that we were told only those with specific naxx pieces (code and origin) would see a drop in armor from this. that wasn't true. i never said i wasn't expecting to personally take a drop in armor, in fact i posted that i would, i was just saying that overall bears are taking a nerf from this patch.

  15. #35

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by neeples
    i'm a retard for taking defender's code, cloak of the shadowed sun, and origin? those are best in slot after the nerf too bud, unless you're an alchy, JC, or have managed to get greatness. i have essence of gossamer in my bag to replace offering, but cloak and weapon won't be replaced (sorry you havent gotten them yet). yes, i still have amulet of wills. congrats you got me. haven't seen boundless ambition yet, and i was under the war for heritage.

    i'm glad you don't agree with my gear decisions. i didn't notice you posting your armory link.

    oh, do enlighten me as to whats better than polar boots and belt, both before and after the patch? yes, i have polar vest still, but i haven't gotten valor chest yet.

    anyway my point was that we were told only those with specific naxx pieces (code and origin) would see a drop in armor from this. that wasn't true. i never said i wasn't expecting to personally take a drop in armor, in fact i posted that i would, i was just saying that overall bears are taking a nerf from this patch.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...non&n=Nekochan

    You're giving up tps, avoidance, and damage overall to wear stam gear. I wouldn't give up the minior stat gains of stam for those peices _ever_.
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  16. #36
    Deleted

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    I've tested with my Druid, unbuffed, same gear, same spec:

    LIVE:
    26k Armor, 37% dodge.

    PTR:
    31k Armor, 41% dodge.



    Also note the relatively huge dodge increase. Does anyone know what that's about? It's exactly the same gear and spec I'm using. ???

  17. #37

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormrage
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...non&n=Nekochan

    You're giving up tps, avoidance, and damage overall to wear stam gear.  I wouldn't give up the minior stat gains of stam for those peices _ever_.
    did you verify on the PTR that you'd be at 34k in the exact same gear?  according to the math in this thread, you'd be at around 31k post patch.  you will see a much smaller jump than you think since you have the staff and offering equipped.

    there is no point to arguing with you since you have already made up your mind, but i'd personally take 5k more health and 3k more armor after the patch over 5% more dodge.  if you were using rawr to come up with the 'damage overall' comparison, then it does state that post patch i'm taking .6% more damage overall than you.

    however, how many (.006 * damage taken) does it take to equal 5k?

    edit: by damage overall did you mean dps output? as long as my tps is double everyone elses and im still doing >2k dps, i care not about giving up overall damage done. tps hasn't been a problem since 3.0. don't see it becoming one anytime soon either. if i can hold agro against a group with three hat rogues all doing 6-7k dps on thaddius, i don't need to gear for tps.

  18. #38

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by neeples

    if you want to armory me, I'm neeples on mal'ganis, but there is no way a bear could get over 3326 armor from leather right now that i know of.
    3315 base armor currently, and im not even useing 25 man naxx gear. hell i dont even have epic's on my head, gloves, or boots.

    oh and all my epics are level 200 not the higher level stuff, so 3326 isnt the max.
    warriors get rust, pallys cant hear you in that bubble, death knights are screaming about voices, druids? were trying to get whats left of your face off our claws.

  19. #39
    Pit Lord Alski's Avatar
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    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doodad
    3315 base armor currently, and im not even useing 25 man naxx gear. hell i dont even have epic's on my head, gloves, or boots.

    oh and all my epics are level 200 not the higher level stuff, so 3326 isnt the max.
    your more than likely adding your cloak armor value into your calculation if your coming up with 3315

    Chest: Ilevel 213 = 578 armor
    Feet: Ilevel 213 = 398 armor
    Hands: Ilevel 226 = 369 armor
    Head: Ilevel 213 = 470 armor
    Legs: Ilevel 226 = 517 armor
    Shoulders: Ilevel 213 = 434 armor
    waist: Ilevel 213 = 325 armor
    Wrist: Ilevel 213 = 253 armor

    total armor from feral leather gear = 3344 (there are some other leather pieces of Ilevel 226 that give slightly more armor but they are resto/moonkin gear)

  20. #40

    Re: Armor (nerf?)

    Quote Originally Posted by neeples
    did you verify on the PTR that you'd be at 34k in the exact same gear? according to the math in this thread, you'd be at around 31k post patch. you will see a much smaller jump than you think since you have the staff and offering equipped.

    there is no point to arguing with you since you have already made up your mind, but i'd personally take 5k more health and 3k more armor after the patch over 5% more dodge. if you were using rawr to come up with the 'damage overall' comparison, then it does state that post patch i'm taking .6% more damage overall than you.

    however, how many (.006 * damage taken) does it take to equal 5k?

    edit: by damage overall did you mean dps output? as long as my tps is double everyone elses and im still doing >2k dps, i care not about giving up overall damage done. tps hasn't been a problem since 3.0. don't see it becoming one anytime soon either. if i can hold agro against a group with three hat rogues all doing 6-7k dps on thaddius, i don't need to gear for tps.
    Are you really only doing 2000 dps in a 25 man? That is sorta sad.
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