aggro problems?

[mightycerberus]

yes i know they boosted the threat per second tanks can do, but so far it doesnt seem to be enough to keep myself under them.

i'm specced 0/40/31 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZcxczstRq0sxZVcGVr0uV) , have about 2k spelldmg with felarmor and imp out, add to this i got 27% unbuffed crit, +5%firecrit from imp and a fair bit from grand firestone (+63 crit rating). missing only 2% hitrating to be hitcapped and i need vigilance or hand of salvation to survive most fight with even just a little movement. (a fight with no movement like patchwerk the tank can just hold the threat, but not by much)
and i dont even have 2 heroes/valorous plagueheart items yet...
is anyone else seeing this sad tendency of tanks (even though they know their class, and know how to manage threat) cannot hold threat?
it frustrates me when having to stand still and sing "la di da, 5 more seconds till i can start incinerating the bastard again...)
i know we have our dear soulshatter, and that mighty fine, but the cooldown on it still means that once i get high on threat meter again, i'm gonna have to start doing nothing unless i can get hand of salvation (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=1038) or Vigilance (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=50720)

so the big question is, does anyone else seem to be having this annoying problem or found a way arround it, when the vigilance is hogged by a mage and no paladins in the raid group?

[proga]

What's your TPS? What's your tank's "who knows how to play" TPS?

[Bakis]

There is another thread but about affliction. Since you dont have any selfhealing like SL, Haunt I think it's actually tankissues.
A lock shouldn't grab agro easil in WOTLK by damage alone, it's the Damage + Fel Armor, Siphon Life, Haunt that boost threat into becomming a problem and you spec only get the threat from Fel Armor.

I heard of lots of locks with threatissues up to 7k TPS but those are all afflictoinspecced (again, damage + ~15-17k selfhealing every 30 secs). Really think you suffer from tanks that could do better.
Cheers

[GAfo]

exactly, with your spec you should have 0 problems with it.. you should just find better tanks (much better i would say).

[lrs078]

Not saying this is your case but we have 2 MT's (or did until one of them became an officer now the other guy is benched or forced to respec). One tank...I don't pull threat unless its malygos and I'm standing in 1 or more sparks but I know to watch out. The other guy.....well I can rip threat off him in affliction spec on nearly any boss. Oddly, the dps behind me have never suffered one casualty...ie after I get smashed he'll THEN taunt or intervene or whatever. He has also been known to grab a target, I"ll dot it up, he'll switch vigilance from me to someone else and change targets w' a full row of dots on the mob. I'll die, he'll get snotty over vent, and it never happens w' any other tank.

Its not always the spec...sometimes MT's are just douche's. Some of them like watching dps die but catching it before it wipes the raid. Affliction locks have the problem that you can't recall dots. So if a tank knows what he's doing he can be way worse than the hunter who would misdirect the lock ahead of him on dmg back in 2.4 era.

If your MT is in blues and you are decked out from naxx then be careful (if the RNG gods just drop a ton of caster stuff for instance) but beyond that tanks should have more threat by a huge margin in wotlk especially on single targets.

[artan]

you need to speak to the current tank/s and make them see they are not doing theire job . a half brained tank can pull off silly amounts of tps.

[sdw]

...to survive most fight with even just a little movement. (a fight with no movement like patchwerk the tank can just hold the threat, but not by much)

gz, i think you found the first tank that has to stand still and cast his agro skills.

[Shamb]

The only solution we can all give you is find another tank who knows how to play, cause it's very easy to keep aggro on bosses for a tank.

[WolleKK]

gz, i think you found the first tank that has to stand still and cast his agro skills.

This is exactly what I was thinking. It's the first time I heard a caster makes more tps than a tank when both have to move (me has a tank and a caster btw).

[mightycerberus]

all our tanks are in mostly heroic/naxx10+25 gear, and so am i, but fights like grand widow faerlina and noth the plague bringer, are hella hard to keep threat low on. it just simply pisses me off when they can't keep their threat high enough.
and what i can hear from you guys is that "the scientist spec" (aka affiliction) is maddeningly hard to keep low threat on?
i didnt mind affliction in TBC and played it a long way in to TK/SSC till i had a decent hit and crit, but with haunt comming in to play aswell i havent fealt much for rolling affliction.
so by your words its probably lousy tanking? and i guess i will need to have a word with our gl about this.

[direlock]

Sounds like a tank issue, the ONLY time I pull agro, is if i get, lets say a double trinket proc and I'm AOE'ing. But you can see that one coming. If your raining fire and its hitting multi mobs for over 4k, you just have to watch it. With that said, until they fix druid multi mob tank agro, watch that shizznat too:/ They make me nervous.

[lrs078]

At present gearing per sources like tankspot and EJ forums threat shouldn't be an issue unless there is a gimmick to the fight (malygos spark patches, spore on the melee in loathleb, etc) When tanks can't hold threat vs a lock and the gearing is similar I have to say its a tank issue. Affliction generates DPS threat but also potentially healing aggro. If you are self healing for most of it (vs most of your skills being overheals) then you get the threat instead of the healers. So perhaps some of the issue goes to healers as well as the tank. As a FG/emberstorm or really any build except affliction the healers keep all the healing aggro. Also while affliction can't stop most of its dmg once cast it also builds threat most slowly. If you are some form of destro or demo a 12K shadowbolt crit right off the bat (meta, trinkets, pact buff, etc) or a couple 9K incinerates will be a far larger dps aggro grab but zero healing aggro. Affliction builds progressively over 20 to 30 seconds. Its pretty constant during the fight and grows some more at 25% due to drain soul. Only other issue w' affliction is 95% of the dmg done comes from you not your pet. A FG is 20-25% of your dmg and threat. An empowered imp somewhere around 15%. Affliction has a pet good for about 130 to 150 dps but it doesn't scale higher as you go higher in dps. On the high end afflocks hit 5K dps while starting hopefully around 2K and most of us being in the 3K's to 4K's. As our dps goes up our pets is fairly static hence we get more proportional aggro. Meanwhile a FG build the pet scales somewhat (if not as much as we'd like) but does scale w' gear and raid buffs.

Tank's threat now is so potent that a good tank you really don't need vigilance, hand of salv, etc. However a bad tank you still can overthreat w' shatter, hand of salv, and vigilance. My friends in raid know when the douche tank is on I need their help via those skills.

[gherkin]

Revenge > Shield Slam > Shockwave > Thunderclap > Heroic Strike

In that order. If you proc revenge or whatever that talent is that resets shield slam cooldown, start at the beginning again.


Theoretically, you will never use Heroic Strike OR Thunderclap with enough procs, and maintain more single target threat than you can believe possible.

[Bakis]

Revenge > Shield Slam > Shockwave > Thunderclap > Heroic Strike

In that order. If you proc revenge or whatever that talent is that resets shield slam cooldown, start at the beginning again.


Theoretically, you will never use Heroic Strike OR Thunderclap with enough procs, and maintain more single target threat than you can believe possible.

Offtopic, will you marry me please? PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE :P