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  1. #21

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    In regards to the original question, Haste is better than crit....up to a point, which I think Irs mentioned above.

    Anything about 550 is kinda wasted as you start clipping GCD to much and crit therefore becomes a little better......until that point though its always better to go with haste as an affliction lock.....DON'T Gem for it though

    Pandemic accounts for about 5-6% of my total damage, so its not bad having crit I tend to hover around 20% odd and as Corr and UA is about 25% of my Dmg it works out about right.

    But Unless your clipping the GCD, haste over Crit for affliction locks every time

    M.

  2. #22

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Thanks for all the info.
    Poë: 80 Gnome Warlock on Draenor
    53/0/18
    2550 spell dmg
    Hit Capped
    17% Haste
    18k health
    4/5 T7.5 now with Hood of Rationality woot!
    80 spriest and 4 other lvl 70 toons I dread the thought of having to level again.

  3. #23

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Eradication stacks with haste from proc, from totem, from gear, from heroism, etc.

    Haste stacks, no matter the source of it. Sometimes you might not see it when you press C cause of internal server lag, or simply because the duration of the proc ain't long enough to refresh the info, but it does.

    Haste stacks.

  4. #24
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    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlöck
    I dont know if anyone was aware of this or it has already been suggested, or even if its still arround however in TBC there was a certain addon which as a lock i found huge use for, Dr Damage.

    Haste 10 - 1%
    Spell dmg 25 - 1%
    Crit 4 - 1%
    Dr. Damage operates on a per spell basis, factoring talents and potentially "in the moment" buffs. A 1% dps increase is based on the spell, as in your example 25 spell dmg will increase the DPS of UA ONLY by 1%.


    This works well for Mages and other non-dot casters, but not as well for us. It requires a different sort of thinking to make it work here.

    R.I.P. YARG

  5. #25

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jashin
    I'd thought that was the case as well.
    I recall the 2.4 patch saying something about haste not stacking, but everything that I'd found in raids showed it only to be concurrent with Heroism.

    maybe the haste was changed from calculating base cast to the current haste % at the time you have.
    like instead of giving a sbolt the full untalented 3 second benefit of haste from its base cast time stacking with your current gear bringing it down to 2.5 -it only benefits from the 2.5 your current haste delivers..

    or something to that effect..

    I don't number crunch so blah, you get what I'm saying i hope.
    Haste has always worked multiplicity; that is, off your current cast time and not base or untalented. Otherwise haste would get better and better the more of it you got.

    The 2.4 thing was an attempted nerf to haste that never went through. It tinkered with how haste stacked, in that it didn't. Self-only haste buffs would only take the best, and outside sources of haste would only take the best. I don't think the nerf ever even made it to live.

  6. #26

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    thanks for clarifying for me.
    www.myspace.com/curseofdoom

    ...Warlock Hip-Hop To Melt Wax and Face...

  7. #27

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    As far as I see it (without involving maths (though they show it's better as well), haste effects ALL your spells, crit only applies to 4 of them.

    So that's point 1 for haste.
    Another one is that haste requires LESS points per percentage.

    32.79 haste = 1%
    45.91 crit = 1%

    A major other thing with affliction is that below 35% you will not be casting immolate anymore (since death's embrace gives you 12% increased SHADOW damage) and below 25% you stop casting shadow bolts at all and cast drain soul which as well does not benefit from crit either, BUT since it's 15 sec duration it will last too long to complete fully without dropping your dots and since haste benefits your channeled spells too you will ease up and be able to do more ticks of drain soul before you need to get back to refreshing DoTs again.

    If 1 Spell Power is worth 1 dps per point, than 1 haste will be about 0.5 dps per point and crit about 0.4~0.3 worth.

  8. #28

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Offsprngr
    As far as I see it (without involving maths (though they show it's better as well), haste effects ALL your spells, crit only applies to 4 of them.

    So that's point 1 for haste.
    Another one is that haste requires LESS points per percentage.

    32.79 haste = 1%
    45.91 crit = 1%

    A major other thing with affliction is that below 35% you will not be casting immolate anymore (since death's embrace gives you 12% increased SHADOW damage) and below 25% you stop casting shadow bolts at all and cast drain soul which as well does not benefit from crit either, BUT since it's 15 sec duration it will last too long to complete fully without dropping your dots and since haste benefits your channeled spells too you will ease up and be able to do more ticks of drain soul before you need to get back to refreshing DoTs again.

    If 1 Spell Power is worth 1 dps per point, than 1 haste will be about 0.5 dps per point and crit about 0.4~0.3 worth.

    Theorycrafter FTL. Crit > Haste by far. i have 21.50% crit, 320 haste and top every single meter in wotlk.

  9. #29

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkas

    Theorycrafter FTL. Crit > Haste by far. i have 21.50% crit, 320 haste and top every single meter in wotlk.
    1/4th of the fight you're basicly not even using crit chance unless they finally go overhaul DoTs to truly just crit and not make it some sort of quick 3 talent point wasting band-aid.

  10. #30

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsfreak
    Everything stacks with everything.

    Base shadow bolt is 2.5 seconds, giving you 40 shadowbolts every 100 seconds.
    You have 328 haste rating (10%), dropping shadow bolt cast down to 2.27, giving you 44 sbolts every 100 seconds, 10% more than before.
    You get a haste proc of 492 haste (15%), dropping sbolt cast down to 1.79, giving you 50.6 sbolts every 100 seconds (15% more than before).
    Then Eradication procs, giving you 20% haste and dropping sbolt cast down to 1.65 seconds, giving you 60.72 casts every 100 seconds (20% more than before).

    People often mistake this in that Eradication gets "diminishing returns" from haste gear because of the way it works, because it only takes off ~.14 seconds off the casting time with all that haste versus taking ~.43 seconds with no other haste. This is a misunderstanding of how haste works; it's still 20% more casts than would have gotten off in any period of time.

    EDIT: I accidentally put the haste proc as 20% haste when it's only 15%.
    /concur

    I have seen SB cast times of >1 second w/ both haste trinkets (egg and 10 man naxx dps version), WoA, and Erad proc'ing. Add BL to the mix and its happy happy joy joy



  11. #31

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rentin
    Which would be better for affliction and why? More haste to spit out more shadow bolts inbetween dot refreshes or more crit to increase pandemic procs and whatnot? Which do you think and why? Which would be more valuable to stack after spellpower and hit? Any information on this would be great, thanks in advance.
    Haste or Crit?

    with out going into idealized number crunches about what you SHOULD be going for lets take a more realistic look at what is available. There are basicly 2 types of gear in LK that itemize for what we need.

    type 1: Haste/Crit/Hit + spirit. These pieces have one stat and spirit.

    type 2: Haste + Crit/Haste + Hit/Crit + Hit/Haste + Hit; No spirit. These pieces have 2 stats on the same piece but no spirit.

    Now when deciding whether an item is an upgrade, imo, consider crit and haste to be secondary stats to hit and spirit. Meaning if an item gives you spirit and hit vs hit and haste but no spirit, go for the spirit and hit. I have my choice of gear for the most part and have been hit capped for some time but i still accumulate pieces w/ hit to give me options. I like to think logistically about haste and crit and when to choose one for another.
    Example. The Trash 25 man naxx Dagger w/ hit and spirit, i currently use that and the BoV haste cloak. If the blade from KZ drops w/ haste + Crit w/ no spirit. i will flop out the dagger and cloak for the sword and the hit cloak out of 10 man. i will sack an items worth of spirit to gain more haste, crit and SP. Point is that since hit and spirit are the primary stat haste and crit dont have linear upgrades available. Your going to have to swap in what you can. Since there is a lack of hit/crit rings i have a lot of haste on my rings.

    So whats better? Although haste wont effect your DoT Damage you will refresh dots more quickly, DS/DL more quickly, and Spam SB more quickly. This is compounded by haste trinkets, tallents, raid buffs, etc. Crit is also a good stat esp if your haunt/ruin and the more of it you have the better damage you will do, BUT when you sac haste for crit its a disproportionate allocation of stats on gear, meaning 1% increase in crit wont be as beneficial as 1% increase in haste, and therefore its an unwise choice.

    Sry to be so long winded but in reality you can pretty much ignore haste and crit and still end up w/ enough of it on your gear to get the job done. Get crit where you can but dont sac too much to get it.

    Handy Stat breakdown inc:

    Hit>Spirit>Haste>Crit

    Cheers

  12. #32

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkas

    Theorycrafter FTL. Crit > Haste by far. i have 21.50% crit, 320 haste and top every single meter in wotlk.
    Topping a meter means nothing. We have no information about the other people and their gear choices, specs, and how they play compared to you. A good person with decent but not outstanding gear can easily outdo a bad person in good gear, or even a decent player in decent gear. Give us a WWS parse and we can at least say how good different players are relative to each other, but to just say "I top meters" means absolutely nothing.

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