Okay, I give, whats my problem...

[Kaire]

..... cause honestly I have no damn clue at this point why my threat generation is so much fucking lower than the warriors in my guild

armory link
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ringer&n=Kaire
(note - if im still dual wielding the mace/sword, ignore that, the mace i got for lulz and to taunt a pally friend, the sword i just felt like having cause its pretty... my normal weapon is the TS destroyer)
(also note - as of last night the 3 points in wandering plague were in Imp IT, and the 3 in BcB were in outbreak)

As of last night on patchwerk I was barely keeping pace with the other OT (warrior). Doing every damn thing I could, following my rotation (PS IT BS BS SS, SS x ? <- until SS glyph didnt proc and i needed to refresh IT/PS or use BS's to get Drunes back), keeping UB up, RSing as much as possible and throwing DC's in when i had excess RP and runes were on CD.

/sigh... do I just fail? or am i doing something wrong

[bigdawg78]

Well it could be lag or a variety of other things, but I'm going to take a stab at this. First off, your talents look pretty good. Not taking 2/2 dirge sucks, and you may want to ditch Master of Ghouls and 1 point from Bladed Armor to pick it up. More runic power = more rune strikes, death coils, unholy blight, etc. Make sure you macro rune strike to every single ability in your rotation. You want it going off as much as possible.

You could also take a look at the tank excel sheet over on elitist jerks. You plug in your gear and talents and it will try to give you the best rotation for threat. I was surprised when I did mine to see that unholy gave me lower single target threat than Frost. I thought unholy was better at mitigation and threat. The AoE threat (sleeper threat) of unholy is nice, but a nice deathchill -> howling blast works wonders as frost. When I plugged in everything in the tank sheet for me, it gave me under ideal conditions, fully buffed, about 4.5k TPS as unholy and about 5.5k TPS as frost.

But I suspect the problem is a lot bigger than just the spec. Is there another unholy DK in your raid currently? If so, him being there will gimp your dps since his ebon plaguebringer disease will overwrite yours.

[Shazbawt]

Spit out your skill rotation plz so I can help

[bigdawg78]

Spit out your skill rotation plz so I can help

Did you not read the OP's full post? He gave us his rotation.

[Waambulance]

Well it could be lag or a variety of other things, but I'm going to take a stab at this. First off, your talents look pretty good. Not taking 2/2 dirge sucks, and you may want to ditch Master of Ghouls and 1 point from Bladed Armor to pick it up. More runic power = more rune strikes, death coils, unholy blight, etc. Make sure you macro rune strike to every single ability in your rotation. You want it going off as much as possible.

You could also take a look at the tank excel sheet over on elitist jerks. You plug in your gear and talents and it will try to give you the best rotation for threat. I was surprised when I did mine to see that unholy gave me lower single target threat than Frost. I thought unholy was better at mitigation and threat. The AoE threat (sleeper threat) of unholy is nice, but a nice deathchill -> howling blast works wonders as frost. When I plugged in everything in the tank sheet for me, it gave me under ideal conditions, fully buffed, about 4.5k TPS as unholy and about 5.5k TPS as frost.

But I suspect the problem is a lot bigger than just the spec. Is there another unholy DK in your raid currently? If so, him being there will gimp your dps since his ebon plaguebringer disease will overwrite yours.

Agree with this poster.

Death & Decay > Death Grip > PS > IT > Pestilence > FS > Deathchill > Howling Blast

My dk spec is 5/56/10 Im new to tanking, and read the forums all the time for things to make me a better tank. With my spec and rotation i can hold agro pretty well, im sure there is always room for improvement, thats why we post. As i get better gear i will adjust my spec and rotation sorta like taking off the training wheels. I'm going to macro Rune strike after each single ability, with the addition of threat on this strike, its a must. Ty for that.

[Shazbawt]

Did you not read the OP's full post? He gave us his rotation.

No I made the mistake of skimming it

In Correction --------------

Alright here is your problem.

DKs should not MT patchwerk. Why? Because your threat is mainly generated off of our Disease, Major Strike (in your case SS), and RP Dumps.

Right now there are no "High Threat" abilities for DKs, which is why they are changing RS to generate 200% threat.

Preaty much right now you have very similar TPS to that if you offtanked him (everything is the same but for the occational RS).

So, DKs should not be MTing Patchwerk because it relies very much on the offtank keeping threat up as well. OT until they fix RS, then you should be fine.

One suggestion is try going down the frost line to FS, a weapon damage based RP dump. If you have someone in the raid already doing EP, it is a better RP dump than UA for threat (on bosses)

[Kaire]

Just clearing up some things....

1) I'm not frost, I'm unholy. Going deep enough in frost to get FS or HB means I'd be frost, and not unholy.... I dont like frost.

2) I have no problem on aoe packs (obviously), thats not what I'm asking about

3) On patcherk I AM an OT, sorry if that wasnt clear. However I fail to see how I would be generating more or less threat as MT, with hateful strikes I have RS up almost constantly, and nothing else is "reactive" and requires being attacked to use, everything else about my rotation is the same no matter if I'm OTing or MTing. The only difference i can see is with my new talent spread having BcB, as MT it'd be getting parried on those procs sometimes since i'd have to stand in front of him.


That being said I did download said spreadsheet, spent a good little bit working with it to get it to have my stats correct, and it listed a tri-rotation involving DnD as having roughly 1k more TPS than my current rotation (perhaps at the cost of a bit of dps), though I'm not sure if thats entirely accurate as I'm not using a "set" rotation due to SS glyph procs removing the need to use PS/IT every so often. Not to mention the graphics bug that causes DnD+Morbidity to lag some machines up horribly (including mine)

Ill probably play around with it next week and see how my threat fares compared to the other tanks though, I guess thats all I really know to do at this point.

(final note - oh and no, no other UH DKs, in fact the only other one in guild respeced to avoid messing up my threat)

[vlight]

unholy DKs have the lowest single target threat gen of any tank.

lower than blood DKs, lower than frost DKs, lower than bears, prot pallies, prot wars.

simply put, threat-wise unholy is the absolute worst choice.

that being said, i MT with my DK as unholy... sure my threat's lower than it could be, and it's lower than what the OT could put out, but it's never been low enough that someone has actually ripped aggro.

short answer: you're probably not doing anything wrong, blizz just let every other tank keep their "generates very high threat" abilities, along with their super high threat stance, and didn't give DKs something similar.

frost presence alone is pretty much like a warrior DPSing out of D stance.. and with nothing comparable to shield slam/devastate, DKs fall behind.

there'll probably be some additions to DKs tank-wise down the line, but i wouldn't hold your breath for anything in the near future.. change comes amazingly slow in WoW.. despite blatant imbalances.

[Mr. Gerbz]

Right now there are no "High Threat" abilities for DKs, which is why they are changing RS to generate 200% threat.

No, they're changing it due to some whiners calling it a rogue killer.

To be fair, it could indeed do too much damage in both PvP and PvE, and they only nerfed it 25% (from 200% to 150% dmg).

[Kaire]

unholy DKs have the lowest single target threat gen of any tank.

I dont see why ... if theyre balanced against blood/frost for single target dps, shouldnt the threat be the same.... unless im missing something (sure i dont have 7k frost strikes, but i do have harder hitting dots that can essentially crit)

[Vantro]

My TPS as Frost is much better than Unholy. As a MT/OT in 10/25man TPS is the biggest issue I have. I do OT Patchwerk because of that alone (plus DK's mitigation is pretty high atm, hateful dodge/parry x15, then spike for 8 hits).

But in general TPS for DK's is low, lower than a warrior/paladin/druids IMO. wtb runestrike nerf/buff.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rtheldrin&n=No

my armory in case you want to look at different stuff, your #1 tps booster will be weapon, and the one I have is/will still be the best, defense is easy to cap with the new runeforge

[talitu]

(PS IT BS BS SS, SS x ? <- until SS glyph didnt proc and i needed to refresh IT/PS or use BS's to get Drunes back), keeping UB up, RSing as much as possible and throwing DC's in when i had excess RP and runes were on CD.

/sigh... do I just fail? or am i doing something wrong

if im reading that right and i admit im 3 bottles of whine on the wrong side of reading skills right now think your prob is you seem to be doing an outright DPS cycle. my cycle looks more like

dnd>it>ps then bb and ss as the runes come up , but never ever ever ever making dnd late as soon as it is up down it goes.

i dont use runic power untill i do UB and dc's go in if theres room.

i fail at reading comprehension , do you have wandering plague or not? because you want that bad boy.

im really inefficient in that i waste a lot of RP , i use BB not BS even on single targets (it guarentees cooling the rune) and my cycle is not optimised i have several seconds of runes being avail and not used as i wait for DnD but my problem is trying to stay under the MTaggro wise.

only advice i can give is to be slacker with your cycle make sure diseases and dnd are on 100% of avail time.