Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    So in BC my main reason to be a LW was for the armor kits. To my surprise though I discovered drums. There were drums that could inc your melee/spell power, your run speed, heal you, give you a 2 sec aoe fear, and of course HASTE. Being a shaman, I had a mini heroism I could use whenever I wanted. Obviously, Drums of Battle became huge in raids, and eventually nerfed to a 2 min cd.

    So why would Blizzard put a 2 min cd on my drums, and then not even let them work on lvl 80's? Drums of battle is THE only reason I stuck with LW, cause back then most of the craftable gear kinda sucked. Even now, all the craftable mail gear has 0 hit or expertise and buncha armor pen...yuck.

    Back during the WOTLK beta data mining, there were 4 new drums introduced that never made it to live. Anyone know if they are planning to release these soon? I really miss my drums

    BRING BACK THE DRUMS!!

  2. #2

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    as i understand it they took drums, chain potting and weapon buffs like wizard oil or sharpening stones because they were forced to tune encounters with the expectation you had them. which either penalized guilds that couldnt afford to deck out every single member in consumables or it forced guilds to pay through the nose to do so. since those arent in the game anymore, they can now retune accordingly
    all hail king frost strike

  3. #3
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Legion of Doom Headquarters
    Posts
    20,333

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by psicorp
    ...which either penalized guilds that couldnt afford to deck out every single member in consumables or it forced guilds to pay through the nose to do so.
    yes because asking people to farm and bring potions, flasks, elixirs, food buffs in order to raid is going way too far. After all, any idiot who puts not time and effort into making their toon the best possible asset to a raiding guild should be able put out 3000dps and clear all end game content.

    That sort of attitude is the reason why none of those scrubs ever got past SSC in BC and its the reason why the content is such a joke now.



  4. #4
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Legion of Doom Headquarters
    Posts
    20,333

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rellikk

    Hey didnt know if u knew this or not...but its a video game, MOST people have lifes outside and dont/cant put in "time and effort".
    Your right. 20mins to pick some herbs for potions and do some fishing for buff food really must cut into your day. Never mind banging your head against the wall for 3 hours wiping because your not prepared.


  5. #5

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Uhm. No.

    It had little to do with people farming and more to do with everyone dropping their profession just to be leatherworking for the drums because they were so crucial to many encounters.

    That sort of attitude is the reason why none of those scrubs ever got past SSC in BC and its the reason why the content is such a joke now.
    Yeah. You know, Naxxrammas was NEVER around. No one has ever seen the encounters in Naxx. They weren't done three years ago... they weren't done on the PTR.

    Would you rather blizzard go back and re-tune encounters based on you having every elixir, flask, food buff and world buffs (Like Onyxia Head)?

  6. #6
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Legion of Doom Headquarters
    Posts
    20,333

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tablemaker
    Uhm. No.

    It had little to do with people farming and more to do with everyone dropping their profession just to be leatherworking for the drums because they were so crucial to many encounters.
    That's excessive and not necessary. But theres nothing wrong with having 2-3 people who can pop these extra buffs in a pinch. It makes someone an asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tablemaker
    Yeah. You know, Naxxrammas was NEVER around. No one has ever seen the encounters in Naxx. They weren't done three years ago... they weren't done on the PTR.
    As if the encounters would take weeks to master if nobody had ever seen them before?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tablemaker
    Would you rather blizzard go back and re-tune encounters based on you having every elixir, flask, food buff and world buffs (Like Onyxia Head)?
    I'm shocked that so many people are opposed to requiring people who raid with you to supply themselves with flasks/elixers/buff foods etc. They don't put these things in the game to look pretty. They have uses. Since when would +125 Spellpower, +40 Stamina, +30 Agility be such a bad thing to require people to have? People complain when they don't get Kings, Wisdom, Arcane Intellect etc but there are things you can do to push yourself beyond that. Furthermore it shows people that you raid with that you give a shit and want to be the best you can and are worthy of 24 other people helping you to gear out and get epic sets etc.

    If people put more effort in to what they are doing we wouldn't see such simple content. You could make boss encounters fun and challenging and ask people to maybe think and push themselves a little.

  7. #7

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by fluid8
    I'm shocked that so many people are opposed to requiring people who raid with you to supply themselves with flasks/elixers/buff foods etc. They don't put these things in the game to look pretty. They have uses. Since when would +125 Spellpower, +40 Stamina, +30 Agility be such a bad thing to require people to have? People complain when they don't get Kings, Wisdom, Arcane Intellect etc but there are things you can do to push yourself beyond that. Furthermore it shows people that you raid with that you give a shit and want to be the best you can and are worthy of 24 other people helping you to gear out and get epic sets etc.

    If people put more effort in to what they are doing we wouldn't see such simple content. You could make boss encounters fun and challenging and ask people to maybe think and push themselves a little.
    If the cumulative effect from all these different profession buffs is enough to trivialize a raid encounter then they must be taken into account and assumed to be present in a raid encounter. This makes certain choices mandatory in raid makeup that shouldn't be. You can see the effects of this in the desicion to make buffs raidwide, and also nonstackable for certain buffs that were functionally equivalent. The professions should not be a min/max issue, but instead something that defines your character. What determines the Raid makeup should to a greater extent be the people, who they are, not the toon they rolled. For a social game with a social focus you might say this is elementary, but its something that was getting lost in TBC Raids.

    You don't think theres something wrong with the notion that you have to prove yourself somehow by demonstrating how much time your willing to devote to a pastime? This is supposed to be fun not a job. Grinding isnt fun. Farming isn't fun. Previous games that have made both a necessity managed to increase play time at the cost of actually being entertaining.

    This raid content has been breezed through. Its also the early dungeons for this expansion. The other ones should provide a greater challenge while hopefully retaining accessibility. Theres no sense in spending months making content that the majority of the playerbase will never experience. I think your going to see a lot more dungeons that have that added extra for the Raider that can go the extra mile, while also not shutting out the average player from the evolving storyline.

  8. #8
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Legion of Doom Headquarters
    Posts
    20,333

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by Carvel Creamer
    You don't think theres something wrong with the notion that you have to prove yourself somehow by demonstrating how much time your willing to devote to a pastime? This is supposed to be fun not a job. Grinding isnt fun. Farming isn't fun. Previous games that have made both a necessity managed to increase play time at the cost of actually being entertaining.
    Again asking someone to farm for 20 mins for a few mats for buff foods/flasks and being prepared isn't asking a lot. If picking herbs takes 4 hours then your doing it wrong lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carvel Creamer
    This raid content has been breezed through. Its also the early dungeons for this expansion. The other ones should provide a greater challenge while hopefully retaining accessibility. Theres no sense in spending months making content that the majority of the playerbase will never experience. I think your going to see a lot more dungeons that have that added extra for the Raider that can go the extra mile, while also not shutting out the average player from the evolving storyline.
    xfingersx

  9. #9

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by fluid8
    Again asking someone to farm for 20 mins for a few mats for buff foods/flasks and being prepared isn't asking a lot. If picking herbs takes 4 hours then your doing it wrong lol.
    We don't lose exp or equip on death, and corpse runs are not necessarily arduously long. Despite that, theres going to be an increase in ghost form speed and a lot of graveyards are going to be added. We have a currency menu now for tokens that used to be items, pets and mounts are also now treated like spells. Was it really that hard to carry what you needed? No not at all. Its not fun though. It adds nothing to the experience. Neither does farming mats just to be able to attempt a raid run. Its all well and good if its on farm status but if your still attempting it the costs for each attempt might become a bit silly. Im not saying items should be taken away, but their efficacy in a raid environment should be restricted so they don't become essential.

    I personally like drums. I'm a leatherworker, and i still want to get those panic drums if i ever manage to get that rep for the recipe. Im sad to see they are not implemented. If they do find their way back in id hope they wouldn't end up becoming the necessity they were with certain instance runs. That tinitus debuff to me seemed like a good idea. Heck i just want cooler recipes that make stuff besides just armor and patches. Make me a whip that causes mounts to rear up. Dodgeballs that don't autotarget, and stack an effect on partymembers that causes a stun on the 5th application. I dunno anything besides just stinkin patches.

  10. #10
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Legion of Doom Headquarters
    Posts
    20,333

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by Carvel Creamer
    Its not fun though. It adds nothing to the experience. Neither does farming mats just to be able to attempt a raid run. Its all well and good if its on farm status but if your still attempting it the costs for each attempt might become a bit silly.
    Adds nothing to the experience? Sorry that's just wrong. Having a raid with full buffs including flasks, elixirs, food buffs etc can add between 8-15% effectiveness for a raid. This is a proven fact (see elitistjerks.com).

    If you don't want to that's fine. I'm sure blizzard will keep releasing kindergarten content for all the people who QQ.

  11. #11

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by fluid8
    Adds nothing to the experience? Sorry that's just wrong. Having a raid with full buffs including flasks, elixirs, food buffs etc can add between 8-15% effectiveness for a raid. This is a proven fact (see elitistjerks.com).

    If you don't want to that's fine. I'm sure blizzard will keep releasing kindergarten content for all the people who QQ.
    Ironic, eh?

  12. #12

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by fluid8
    Adds nothing to the experience? Sorry that's just wrong. Having a raid with full buffs including flasks, elixirs, food buffs etc can add between 8-15% effectiveness for a raid. This is a proven fact (see elitistjerks.com).

    If you don't want to that's fine. I'm sure blizzard will keep releasing kindergarten content for all the people who QQ.
    I think your confused. I'm not arguing that potions and flasks and food, and stacked buffs did not add to the gunpowder a raid group can bring to the instance. As a matter of fact its that very reason that there was a consolidation of a lot of these effects. Thats why you can't chug more than one potion while your in combat. Spellcasters can't just chug manapots, or more to the point, be expected to as a part of a Raid. That's why you have battle elixirs and guardian elixirs, and why flasks count as both.

    Now take a deep breath with me, because for some reason you just gloss over this very important game aspect and go right to the min/max. Fun. It doesnt add to it at all. Farming like this, for this reason is not fun. Its busy work that creates an artificial divide thats predicated simply on the amount of time you have. Maybe i don't want to piss away 20 minutes as prelude for the actual run.

    This is a conclusion that was reached by blizzard independently. Its a cutting away of useless old standbys that make sense from a lot of perspectives except one thats is based on fun. The only thing they nerfed apparently was some peoples self esteem. Honestly, what does it say about you if the difference between a big boys hardcore game and pap made for toddlers is the act of digitally picking flowers for 10 minutes?

  13. #13

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tablemaker


    Yeah. You know, Naxxrammas was NEVER around. No one has ever seen the encounters in Naxx. They weren't done three years ago... they weren't done on the PTR.

    Would you rather blizzard go back and re-tune encounters based on you having every elixir, flask, food buff and world buffs (Like Onyxia Head)?
    LOL...yeah, because we know that the vast majority of the current WoW population had Naxx on farm pre-BC, right???

    ...and Obsidian Sanctum was also an oldschool raid, which is why terrible players are facerolling to free epics in random PUGs, right???
    CoryEverson: lvl80 Death Knight (Lich King)

  14. #14
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,274

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by sd78
    LOL...yeah, because we know that the vast majority of the current WoW population had Naxx on farm pre-BC, right?
    The vast majority of the guilds who cleared Naxxramas in November had done it at level 60 or at level 70.

    Either way, the been stategies and video's out for several years, allowing you to steamroll the instance easily. Encounters like Thaddius is no longer new for the majority (TK: Mechanar), and surprisingly it's Razavious , Sapphiron and Kel'thuzad that people wipe mostly on. Because that's the "new and challenging" encounters in the instance.

    ...and Obsidian Sanctum was also an oldschool raid, which is why terrible players are facerolling to free epics in random PUGs, right?
    Magtheridon and Gruul also got facerolled for free epics after they got balanced to the level they were surposed to be at.

    Here's the thing, Vanilla? You got any clue how much you could faceroll Zul'gurub in GREENS AND BLUES?

    You probably forgot that part, yeah I'm sure you did. Molten Core wasn't hard either, it was a matter of class stacking and getting certain resistance gear made for the tanks.

    And it was made even easier with the Tier 0 and Tier 0.5 sets.

    Who are you trying to fool? Entry content always been easy when not bugged, it's just different views on the same thing.

    A <x> sized raid of perfect players won't ever have a challenge in entry content, unless there is achivements to do it in odd ways.

  15. #15

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    I'm shocked that so many people are opposed to requiring people who raid with you to supply themselves with flasks/elixers/buff foods etc. They don't put these things in the game to look pretty. They have uses. Since when would +125 Spellpower, +40 Stamina, +30 Agility be such a bad thing to require people to have?
    No. Sweet jesus, no. We expect people to have their flasks/elixir combinations. What I am referring to is something you probably never even encountered.

    That's where you could stack elixirs. There was no Guardian or Battle. They were just elixirs and you could use every single damn one of them. One attempt... and 5+ elixirs... plus world buffs like Dire Maul, Onyxia Head, Felwood Blossoms.

    That is what they had to tune content for. For the possibility that people would use these world buffs, a bunch of food buffs, a bunch of elixirs.

    ...and Obsidian Sanctum was also an oldschool raid, which is why terrible players are facerolling to free epics in random PUGs, right?
    Go do 3 drakes.

    LOL...yeah, because we know that the vast majority of the current WoW population had Naxx on farm pre-BC, right???
    It was pugged over and over again after TBC.

  16. #16

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    The vast majority of the guilds who cleared Naxxramas in November had done it at level 60 or at level 70.

    Either way, the been stategies and video's out for several years, allowing you to steamroll the instance easily. Encounters like Thaddius is no longer new for the majority (TK: Mechanar), and surprisingly it's Razavious , Sapphiron and Kel'thuzad that people wipe mostly on. Because that's the "new and challenging" encounters in the instance.
    Magtheridon and Gruul also got facerolled for free epics after they got balanced to the level they were surposed to be at.

    Here's the thing, Vanilla? You got any clue how much you could faceroll Zul'gurub in GREENS AND BLUES?
    LMFAO!!!!!

    ZG was EXTREMELY difficult, bordering on IMPOSSIBLE for PUGs and much harder than MC in many respects.

    I mean seriously, LOL!


    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia

    You probably forgot that part, yeah I'm sure you did. Molten Core wasn't hard either, it was a matter of class stacking and getting certain resistance gear made for the tanks.

    And it was made even easier with the Tier 0 and Tier 0.5 sets.

    Who are you trying to fool? Entry content always been easy when not bugged, it's just different views on the same thing.

    A <x> sized raid of perfect players won't ever have a challenge in entry content, unless there is achivements to do it in odd ways.
    LOL...bullshit.

    There were never any blues-and-greens Trade Chat PUGs farming MC, let alone Gruul or Mag. Ever.

    Compare this to 25Sarthiron 25Vault and 25Spider Wing being farmed on a weekly basis by random Trade Chat PUGs within two weeks of the expansion being released.
    CoryEverson: lvl80 Death Knight (Lich King)

  17. #17
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,274

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    I guess you would claim that nobody pugged Sunwell , BT and Hyjal either.

    Note that I never mentioned anything about PUGs. But it was pretty common to have zero epics and still clear Zul'gurub perhaps minus Jindo.

    The most difficult part about Molten Core was getting 40 people there and buff them up before first pull.

  18. #18

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    Now you're claiming people were running blues-and-greens PUGs on pre-nerf SWP?

    LOL!
    CoryEverson: lvl80 Death Knight (Lich King)

  19. #19
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,274

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    No, the difference is that in Vanilla you had greens and blues, in TBC you had epics of different quality.

    Do note, colour defines rarity, not quality.

    But I do claim that people pugged SWP , typical the first 3 bosses (The Twins gauntlet sucked) before 3.0

    Say, I guess you don't play on some of the larger superrealms, like Silvermoon-EU or Magtheridon-EU.

    Just because you haven't experienced, doesn't mean it didden't happend.

  20. #20

    Re: Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

    He never said pre-nerfed SWP, but as a matter of fact people will try everything. Granted they aren't very successful but there you have it. Certainly after the nerf kara geared people seemed to be swarming BT like vicious little insects to get their tier sets off Illidans grubby hands.

    And yeah - but so impressed with tem nerfing elixirs and drums seeing as these were two of my gold makers TBC. IMO if people want to farm 3 hours a day to use 10 elixirs per wipe that would be in my interest - its a more constructive gold sink than oo look... i have 100 unique mounts!!!.

    The contradiction therein is that Blizz removes productive gold sinks (nerfing said profs and no they arent the only ones... remember when they introduced gems for badges? That annoyed every JC I know in T6 raids) and instead replaces them with the most trvial stuff. Thats my main complaint... Blizz killed my income :d

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •