Leatherworking....where did all the drums go??

[Nezoia]

They are re-introducing "Gems for Emblems" in next patch.

[Spl4sh3r]

as i understand it they took drums, chain potting and weapon buffs like wizard oil or sharpening stones because they were forced to tune encounters with the expectation you had them. which either penalized guilds that couldnt afford to deck out every single member in consumables or it forced guilds to pay through the nose to do so. since those arent in the game anymore, they can now retune accordingly

Why did they tune for having those buffs? Why not tune for not having those and then it would be easier if you had them?

[Nezoia]

Why did they tune for having those buffs? Why not tune for not having those and then it would be easier if you had them?

Because then it would be overdimensional easy when your gear upscales.

It's simple:

Bad gear + lot of buffs = Medium Gear
Medium gear + lot of buffs = Good Gear

Doing a dungeon with Medium gear = reasonable difficult.
Doing a dungeon with good gear is very easy.

So when you outgear the dungeon, you simply stop using buffs. Thus why nobody use flasks untill Ulduar comes out.

[sd78]

No, the difference is that in Vanilla you had greens and blues, in TBC you had epics of different quality.

Do note, colour defines rarity, not quality.

But I do claim that people pugged SWP , typical the first 3 bosses (The Twins gauntlet sucked) before 3.0

Say, I guess you don't play on some of the larger superrealms, like Silvermoon-EU or Magtheridon-EU.

Just because you haven't experienced, doesn't mean it didden't happend.

Suuuure they did...

On one of my two servers, not a single Alliance guild took down any SWP boss and only one Horde side managed to.

On the other server (which is very high population ie: FULL) PUG'ing SWP was totally underheard of and even Gruul PUG's were greeted with skepticism.

No, the difference is that in Vanilla you had greens and blues, in TBC you had epics of different quality.

LOL...in Classic, epics had an ascending item level EXACTLY THE SAME as BC or WotCP.

Now you are just making stuff up.

[Nezoia]

So you're a scrub on a scrub server. What do you know about anything then.

WotCP

Wrath of the Chip King?

Anyway, anyone who played in Vanilla shouldn't have much trouble recognizing what I mean when I talk about the devaluation of purple.

[Lucky_]

Suuuure they did...

On one of my two servers, not a single Alliance guild took down any SWP boss and only one Horde side managed to.

On the other server (which is very high population ie: FULL) PUG'ing SWP was totally underheard of and even Gruul PUG's were greeted with skepticism.

LOL...in Classic, epics had an ascending item level EXACTLY THE SAME as BC or WotCP.

Now you are just making stuff up.

I can vouch for Ravencrest-EU (nezoia is on horde there as well) running BT and SWP pugs post 3.0 en masse. Real, honest to god "clueless people from /2" pugs. I ran one myself on my warrior when we stopped doing it as a guild. Had to stop at shahraz with that one due to simple lack of shadow res gear.

Then ran a "finns only" pug next week, full clear in 5 hours or so. Took some wiping on illidan since we had quite a few who never have been to him and he's actually one boss in BT where everyone has to know what they are doing. Everything before that, it's pretty much "mark experienced player, have rest follow, don't stand in AoE". Even the ever-so-evil gurtogg bloodboil was doable this way - just required three marks on three different people.

Alliance side was even more HC that way, as we have something around 3:1 alliance:horde ratio and server is rated as #1 progress wise on alliance side in EU if not world. AFAIK they ran SWP pugs quite a lot.

Before 3.0, it was usually pug up to akama and stop, and pug up to archi and stop.

To put it bluntly, your server sucks. Doesn't mean others do.

[Gunwolf]

Hmm...seems this thread has gotten a little off topic lol.

From my experiences in "Vanilla WoW", pugging something like ZG or higher difficult was very hard. Back in those days, you needed skill, gear, and orginization to get anywhere past MC and BWL. Even if you had a high pop server, that doesnt mean all the players were good, or geared. Tanks and healers especially had high requirements to be able to progress.

I will agree with the comments about the devalue of epic level items. I still remember how hard it was for me just to get my regular Tier 1 dungeon set. Then on top of that, you had to go thru a quest chain, gain rep, and get your whole guild involved to gather mats of varying proffessions to upgrade your gear. Epics were truely epic back then, and couldnt be easily bought with rep or thru pvp/badges. But that was WHY you had so many peopel stacking elixers and potions, and all these other exploits to get those few small tweaks to be bale to get thru that dungeon.

But Blizz eventually fixed all these. They distinguished guardian from battle elixers. They put limits on how many scrolls you can have. And then they added Tinnitus effect to drums so you couldnt change them. They didn't take elixers out of the game because people were stacking them, just put down rules so that players couldn't abuse it. They have done the same for drums, but not only made them useless to 80, gave no good upgrade.

I say you keep the tinnitus effect and GIMME MY DRUMS!!! Bracer enchants only get you so far, I'm a shaman so I'm all about group/raid utility and I want my drums so I can help out my raid.

[Offhand]

Suuuure they did...

On one of my two servers, not a single Alliance guild took down any SWP boss and only one Horde side managed to.

On the other server (which is very high population ie: FULL) PUG'ing SWP was totally underheard of and even Gruul PUG's were greeted with skepticism.

What the? Even on the smallest and shittiest of servers, Gruul was a face-roll before any nerfs, as was all of t5 minus Kael and Vashj.

Do things loose pug status if the raid leader are smart enough to gear check first?

[Infort]

Suuuure they did...

On one of my two servers, not a single Alliance guild took down any SWP boss and only one Horde side managed to.

On the other server (which is very high population ie: FULL) PUG'ing SWP was totally underheard of and even Gruul PUG's were greeted with skepticism.

Even the smaller populated servers had pugs that went really well.
What's all the ruccus about? : ~ E
I'm on a smaller populated server, we were the only guild, ally and horde side that killed KJ before 3.0.
All the others we're stuck on Brut\Felmyst, some on Twins\M'uru.

And even the ones struggling with Kalecgos managed to kill KJ before WotLK was released.

[00:50:57] [G] [70:Flossy]: you missed an epic MH pug
[00:51:36] [G] [70:Flossy]: everyone died on kaz'rogal,
except a single hunter, who using aspect of the i dont run out of mana
but do 50% less damage, taking him from 260k to 0
[00:51:46] [G] [70:Flossy]: thrall tanked

[sd78]

Hmm...seems this thread has gotten a little off topic lol.

From my experiences in "Vanilla WoW", pugging something like ZG or higher difficult was very hard. Back in those days, you needed skill, gear, and orginization to get anywhere past MC and BWL. Even if you had a high pop server, that doesnt mean all the players were good, or geared. Tanks and healers especially had high requirements to be able to progress.

100% correct.

This is why I can't believe anything that comes from someone making ridiculous statements like 'You got any clue how much you could faceroll Zul'gurub in GREENS AND BLUES?' in regard to comparative raid difficulty.

Facerolling ZG in Blues and Greens???? LOL!

Wrath of the Chip King?

Wrath of the Casual Player

So you're a scrub on a scrub server. What do you know about anything then.

I've done all the raid content in both Classic and WotCP, while you are a LIAR making shit up.

What the? Even on the smallest and shittiest of servers, Gruul was a face-roll before any nerfs, as was all of t5 minus Kael and Vashj.

Do things loose pug status if the raid leader are smart enough to gear check first?

Oh please...

[Mageyoulook]

Back on topic it sucks ass how they took out those buffs they really helped you,and i belived they should get introduced cause leather working proff has nothing else to offer.kind of a dead weight proff if you ask me.

also 20 mins of farming for yourself maybe for like a heroic a long heroic but for a 25 man or in BC a 10 man no way unless your farming the Auction house, more like an hour or so. and comon who wants to farm mats for 3 hours for thier raid grp when they can have fun doing somthing else. unless you like farming. in that case your retarded

Off topic again
1.ZG in greens fuck off thats just wrong in so many ways....so so many ways
2.My server is pretty shit ill admit it (but ya gotta stick with familly) but Gruul mag was like face roll.honestly.... Tk and up was skeptical pugging
3. WoTCK....idk where you got Wrath of the Casual Player...

[stouche]

What the? Even on the smallest and shittiest of servers, Gruul was a face-roll before any nerfs, as was all of t5 minus Kael and Vashj.

Do things loose pug status if the raid leader are smart enough to gear check first?

gruul was hard as shit before nerfs, dunno what the hell youre talking about there chief

[sd78]

Ironically enough, I thought casuals really got a raw deal in Classic.

ZG was very difficult for the rewards it offered, especially as it was supposed to be a stepping stone to the 40mans.

Some of the 'casual friendly' elements introduced late in Classic simply weren't feasible for a casual player and were often absurdly time-consuming or expensive (the Silithis mission grind stands out) and aqquiring a full set of Tier 0.5 required a great deal of commitment, in addtion to over a thousand gold.

I thought the post-fix BC content was perfect. What ruined the game for me was the introduction of Arena Welfare Epics and the fact that people could get some of the best gear in the game by losing 10 Arena games once a week...

[Clockwork Pinkie]

Don't loose hope now, there's still a ton of patches that will be added, maybe they'll add bongos or something. But I do miss my drums/carrot on a stick.

[Gilian]

Uhm. No.

It had little to do with people farming and more to do with everyone dropping their profession just to be leatherworking for the drums because they were so crucial to many encounters.

Yeah. You know, Naxxrammas was NEVER around. No one has ever seen the encounters in Naxx. They weren't done three years ago... they weren't done on the PTR.

Would you rather blizzard go back and re-tune encounters based on you having every elixir, flask, food buff and world buffs (Like Onyxia Head)?

Stop copy pasting blizzards employees arguments. I NEVER did naxx before i hit 80 and it's still too easy. Wait... i didn't even read tactics.

Encounters where never tuned for max buffs (flask/food etc.), people just sucked at playing a computer game.

People just can't admit that raids are now tuned for people who want to pug everything without enchanting their gear or put any efford in their character. Who uses a flasks nowadays or food buffs? It's pointless. Why don't they just remove it from the game entirely...

p.s. did you even do any serious raids in BC? Or you just read someone else his opion/arguments and you copy paste it?

[Crispin]

100% correct.

This is why I can't believe anything that comes from someone making ridiculous statements like 'You got any clue how much you could faceroll Zul'gurub in GREENS AND BLUES?' in regard to comparative raid difficulty.

Facerolling ZG in Blues and Greens???? LOL!

Wrath of the Casual Player


I've done all the raid content in both Classic and WotCP, while you are a LIAR making shit up.

Oh please...

So your server had one kill in SWP, and you've done all content? how does that add up..

I was doing BT pugs on my server, ofcourse you dont bring people who just hit 70 in greens.. but a mix of people who've cleared it alot and some "standins", well geared arena players actually fit in well there.

and ZG was pugged, MC was pugged, we used our alts to do MC and BWL runs with pug players, sure some sucked and it wasnt anything like a guildrun, besides, people were doing MC runs with blue items when DM came out.


BC failed because people had to farm so much for it, don't tell me that you farm mats for several mana/healing pots + elixirs and repair money in 20 minutes, that's what most people spent their days off on doing, not exactly the most enjoyable hours.

It was obvious early on in BC that Blizzard were tuning encounters for a flask/elixir and pot stacked raid and it sucked, besides, i fail to see the huge commitment difference when it only takes 20 minutes as you claim it does.



Oh btw, renaming game names into your opinion is so 2003

[sharkee]

This threadtitle reminded me of Pirates of the Caribbean: Jack Sparow: "Where did the drums go?!"

Maybe it's only funny to me. ;D

[topfer]

bt pugs happened, but i call shenanigans on anyone saying they pugged SWP pre 3.0 with /2 noobs. You might have gone with friends you knew from other raiding guilds, but bs if you say you took some under geared scrub from trade chat. Raids didn't have the dps to do brutallus unless they were geared out in full badge / BT epics. Someone is fibbing.

[sd78]

So your server had one kill in SWP, and you've done all content? how does that add up..

What part of 'in Classic and WotCP' do you not understand?

I was doing BT pugs on my server, ofcourse you dont bring people who just hit 70 in greens.. but a mix of people who've cleared it alot and some "standins", well geared arena players actually fit in well there.



and ZG was pugged, MC was pugged, we used our alts to do MC and BWL runs with pug players, sure some sucked and it wasnt anything like a guildrun, besides, people were doing MC runs with blue items when DM came out.

Not by players in blues and greens, especially not ZG/MC.

Compare this to random Trade Chat PUGs farming 25OS 25Vault and 25Spider Wing within two weeks of the game going live. Big difference.

BC failed because people had to farm so much for it, don't tell me that you farm mats for several mana/healing pots + elixirs and repair money in 20 minutes, that's what most people spent their days off on doing, not exactly the most enjoyable hours.

It was obvious early on in BC that Blizzard were tuning encounters for a flask/elixir and pot stacked raid and it sucked, besides, i fail to see the huge commitment difference when it only takes 20 minutes as you claim it does.

BC raid content was fine.

You had to farm for AQ40 and Naxx back in the day too.

Oh btw, renaming game names into your opinion is so 2003

It's Blizzard's opinion as well seiing as they dumbed the raid content down to the point where absolutely ANYONE can get handed free epics by facerolling in a PUG.

[sd78]

bt pugs happened, but i call shenanigans on anyone saying they pugged SWP pre 3.0 with /2 noobs. You might have gone with friends you knew from other raiding guilds, but bs if you say you took some under geared scrub from trade chat. Raids didn't have the dps to do brutallus unless they were geared out in full badge / BT epics. Someone is fibbing.

Correct.

These type of people love to tell lies rather than admit that they're wrong.