Sad Arenadin

[Adamson]

Wow. I figured I would be the Overpowered class for arenas. Especially with my Assaination rogue partner.

We're the 2nd ranked alliance guild on my server. 2nd Guild to clear nax. Me and my buddy rock full 25-man nax stuff for the most part and a 4-set of pvp gear with only 1 Savage piece each.

pre-3.0 We were 1910 in 2's and steady but slowly were climbing the ladder. neither of us had pvp'd seriously until the end of season 3.

So, season 5 comes around and we dread the matches against death knights as they're nearly unkillable. Unholy Death knights we've about come to the conclusion we should just /leave when we see them.

I'd trade bubble for bone shield any day.

We've won 150 or so arena matches over the last few days and have only managed to scrape our way to 1600. A rating we once considered poor.

The only times we have trouble in any match is if there's a death knight or a good arcane mage present. Otherwise we have a strong win ratio. But there's so many death knights out there. It seems every other match has one.

it's so frustrating to try so hard and only scrape by with a mediocre rating. And everyone proceeds to whine about how overpowered rets are.

Please, tell me how bad i am. Because I must be if that's the best i can do. All I hope for out of this is confirmation death knights are really strong in arenas.

[j0ck3]

Wow. I figured I would be the Overpowered class for arenas. Especially with my Assaination rogue partner.

We're the 2nd ranked alliance guild on my server. 2nd Guild to clear nax. Me and my buddy rock full 25-man nax stuff for the most part and a 4-set of pvp gear with only 1 Savage piece each.

pre-3.0 We were 1910 in 2's and steady but slowly were climbing the ladder. neither of us had pvp'd seriously until the end of season 3.

So, season 5 comes around and we dread the matches against death knights are they're nearly unkillable. Unholy Death knights we've about come to the conclusion we should just /leave when we see them.

I'd trade bubble for bone shield any day.

We've won 150 or so arena matches over the last few days and have only managed to scrape our way to 1600. A rating we once considered poor.

The only times we have trouble in any match is if there's a death knight or a good arcane mage present. Otherwise we have a strong win ratio. But there's so many death knights out there. It seems every other match has one.

it's so frustrating to try so hard and only scrape by with a mediocre rating. And everyone proceeds to whine about how overpowered rets are.

Please, tell me how bad i am. Because I must be if that's the best i can do. All I hope for out of this is confirmation death knights are really strong in arenas.

A retri paladin whining about others?

Or to be more precisely, an overpowered class, running 2's with the most overpowered class, that's getting buffed next patch whining about an overpowered class that's getting nerfed next patch?

[Adamson]

A retri paladin whining about others?

Or to be more precisely, an overpowered class, running 2's with the most overpowered class, that's getting buffed next patch whining about an overpowered class that's getting nerfed next patch?

I was unaware of this and that's what i was looking for.

And fyi, i don't feel that overpowered in arenas. I'm certainly not 1 or 2 shotting people. Resto druids even in my OPness are still difficult to down. Doable, but hard.

I figured 3k barrages followed 5k pom fireballs followed by 5k arcane barrages at range was a bit more overpowered than one 5k judgment every 8 seconds from one of the easiest classes to kite in the game.

Edit: And if you think rogues are more overpowered than any death knight spec I think you've missed the entire beginning of the season.

[Divinestorm]

I was unaware of this and that's what i was looking for.

And fyi, I don't feel that overpowered in arenas. I'm certainly not 1 or 2 shotting people. Resto druids even in my OPness are still difficult to down. Doable, but hard.

I figured 3k barrages followed 5k pom fireballs followed by 5k arcane barrages at range was a bit more overpowered than one 5k judgment every 8 seconds from one of the easiest classes to kite in the game.

Edit: And if you think rogues are more overpowered than any death knight spec I think you've missed the entire beginning of the season.

I feel your pain the broskies, me and my partner got a 1710 rating, played the next day and went down to 1540. How and why? We were playing shit, and there's a glitch atm where 1700 teams are getting 1900+ teams. I asked a GM about it and they said because the overall arena status hasn't been added to the database, most team's are still rated 1500 at an 1800 and you will get teamed up with them. This won't be fixed till next tuesday. Guess Im going for the Hateful gloves nxt week.

BTW Arcane Torrent ftw, with healer. Your just going to have to switch too SoJ when it comes to them. Then when they get low stun change seals and BOOM. Have to be quick although I've seen it done.

[Dlz]

You're not bad. DKs are really hard imo whens arena. Im playing ret rogue @1745 atm, and for example today when we were versus a ret DK we killed the ret before he could buble ( I had to buble myself though) and after that the DK owned us in 2v1. It's not about skill its about being op with IBF+Bonearmor (and not forgetting gargoyle either)


---> BUT
DK teams are also pretty easily winnable. Just "flashnuke" the dk's friend and then take him down in 2v1 if he doesnt own you alone. (in some cases he does :P )

for example holypala dk: Nuke the pala and make him buble, then buble yourself and your rogue should vanish+clos.
then heal yourself and your rogue full and take the pala down since he has used buble now. Then just go for the DK in 2v1

[Divinestorm]

for example holypala dk: Nuke the pala and make him buble, then buble yourself and your rogue should vanish+clos.
then heal yourself and your rogue full and take the pala down since he has used buble now. Then just go for the DK in 2v1

"Bubble" Im hating this word, seem's as though every priest learnt how to fluke their Mass Dispel's overnight.

[Adamson]

The gargoyle hit's like a freight train and is nearly untargettable. Not to mention I don't have much of a ranged arsenal.

The rating mix-up bug sounds interesting >:|

Yeah, if we see a paladin we usually zerg him to bubble and kite around. That strat works really well unless the other team see's the same thing.

We Seem to have a hard time getting a sap off on teams with death knights in them. I guess if i could pick somewhere in 25-30yrds where i could propose a consecrate other teams would have a harder time sapping me too.

Edit: Where the hell are all my old friends druid/war resto/war mage/rogue ret/holy holy/war

>:|

Like i said. I really get the feeling that 60% of the matches we see are death knights.

We can't afford to attempt to kill the DK first, because it takes so damn long the other opponent gets to nuke one of us at whim.

[Lamnent]

I honestly don't mean to flame, but really, that is pretty poor.

My Ret paladin, Nahj on Garona(If you care to armory) has about the best gear you can get from heroics and has yet to hit any raids, so I can still hit pretty hard, and my partner, an assassination rogue the same as you, has HORRIBLE gear. Well, lets not go THAT far, but he was still using a lot of s3-4 and a few good quest blues, with around 16000 HP.

We got to 1590 like that with next to no problem, we did another 8~ games and dropped to about 1579 or so, I can't remeber.

I don't know what stratagy you use off the bat, but play defense to start, let them come to you so your rogue can get the perfect opener, Expose armor the target then you can lay into him. You should repent the other player WHATEVER it may be and then have the rogue Blind him, vanish and re-sap before the Blind ends if needed.

Basically, from what I've seen Ret-UnholyDKs are what is to be most feared, 2x AB-Pyro mages are crazy good if the mages are coordinated. The best advice I can give is, if it's an Unholy DK your up against, KILL THE DK SECOND, no matter what the 1st is, the DK will take 40% less damage for -at least 30 seconds (The first BS and then the refresh of it) before he pops IBF for another 12 seconds of half damage, then you only have 18 seconds till BS goes up again.

They are a BITCH.

Anyway, what problems are you having specifically?


PS- Im not POSITIVE, but I think you can fear the gargoyles, get the glyph. (Haven't had a problem with them yet, but I'd assume...)

[Tech]

Another angle to think about is the number of players now participating in arenas.

During seasons 3 & 4 many, many (almost everybody) players were playing arenas even if just for the free points. Now many players have not even reached 80 yet and the ones that have may or may not even be participating in arenas. Given how easily accessible heroics and the entry level raids are many people (at least that I have spoken to) are very discouraged by the arena requirements being on almost all of the PvP gear and have basically said f*** arenas I am not even going to bother.

Therefore many of the easy wins the more hardcore arena teams received from casuals are no longer possible and the race is much tighter to gain ratings. I think you will see as time goes on and more people start participating it will be easier to gain the ratings you are expecting.

edit* bonehead mistake

[Adamson]

We got to 1670 our first night no problem. but we bounce from 1550 to 1710 all night. It just doesn't seem like we're ever getting anywhere and it's based on how many DK teams we see.

Playing defensive to start has definitely helped a lot. We worked on that a bit more last night. We have gotten a bit lazy with cc since we haven't arena'd since BC. That's starting to clean up and looking better as well.

Basically i'm qq'ing about death knights and their ability to live for so damn long and keep us off his opponent.

Like i said, we were good enough for 1910 pre-OP ret patch.

So I'm assuming that a lot of what's going on now is just everything being way out of balance.

[Divinestorm]

I don't even waste my stuns on the DK at all. Always seem to get IMMUNE. Unholy and holy team well only one thing I can do I kind've Splice the damage.

My Strategy was too keep the Holy Paladin and DK close, we burst the Paladin till he bubbles. Now the trick is to have the rogue, switching between the Paladin and DK the whole time, Ret stays on the Holy Paladin. Dk's should stay on the Pally, unless he knows his partner can take the burst. When the Holy Paladin Bubble, make sure the rogue resets. Then we pop all our cd's and stuns and burst then hell outta the DK. He's usually at about 10k. This strategy is risky as hell, only other thing we do is kill the Paladin before he get's to bubble, which is hard as hell to do. Unless we get a lucky kick in when he's about to HL.

BTW Ghoul Res In ARENA
WTF

[Dannath]

The only time I see ret pallys do good is when they are the dk's partner, it makes me sad. =\

[Lamnent]

We got to 1670 our first night no problem. but we bounce from 1550 to 1710 all night. It just doesn't seem like we're ever getting anywhere and it's based on how many DK teams we see.

Playing defensive to start has definitely helped a lot. We worked on that a bit more last night. We have gotten a bit lazy with cc since we haven't arena'd since BC. That's starting to clean up and looking better as well.

Basically i'm qq'ing about death knights and their ability to live for so damn long and keep us off his opponent.

Like i said, we were good enough for 1910 pre-OP ret patch.

So I'm assuming that a lot of what's going on now is just everything being way out of balance.

Well, our team setups are some of the best right now if played correctly. Burst will wreck anyone but an Unholy DK or Paladin (Hence why the Ret-DK is so strong) right now, you just need to be quick on your CC, likely this is more your rogues problem than yours.

And yeah, DKs are OP as hell right now, hopefully the 20% nerf on Bone Shield will put them in their place a little, but I don't think it's going to help much until they make the duration on Bone Sheild much shorter, it's still SO much more powerful than it's counterparts, Unbreakable armor and Vampiric Blood(Maybe not...Last Stand + 50% more healing taken for 20-30 seconds may be strong as hell later in the season) it just doesn't make any sense.

[Adamson]

patience is definitely key and it's something we're working on.

However getting a sap off when the DK is throwing around desecrates is a bit challenging it seems.

Do you start out on a DK team by swinging really wide to go in for a sap? I think we'll be trying more of that.

[Divinestorm]

I'll just give you a warning. At the start of the match in the new Arena with the cages. Priests and rogue can use spell's like sap and stuff before the cages drop. Only if your standing infront, shouldn't work at the back of the cage. I haven't seen any other classes use it on me, but the Priests used some sort of spell to incapacitate me. ]
Divine Hymn I think.

[Adamson]

That arena makes me cry.

[modrn]

Yah man i mean honestly im playin as holy with a mut rogue and we got to 1800 in 2 days then dropped the next day all the way to 1600 because all we played were ret pally rogue.. ret pally arcane mage and mut rogue arcane mage.. and out of all three of those classes listed ret pallies are on the bottom of being OP for a double DPS comp yah they do alot of damage but not like mut rogues or arcane mages..

2ndly.. DK's arnt to OP they just dont die which causes for hard and long matches. For melee there nearly unkillable 1v1 and matched with a healer they last forever.. for double DPS though DK comps are my favorite to play cuz its basically a 100% win with ne other DPS paired with it. SO i can see where melee are qq'in about DK's but in all honesty the only thing people should be qq'in about is the burst of mut rogues and arcane mages.. 5k arcane barrage and a 7k pom pyro are not cool.. and dying in a rogues opening 2 stuns is not very cool either.

[Adamson]

Exactly. Rets don't do well in long matches, nor rogues because of time between game turning cooldowns.

Opponents that are that hard to kill make the game long enough to run us dry.

And being unkillable does make the OP. Their power is just in their ridiculous survivability.