Pallys VS DK

[monalin]

People say threat is not an issue... Just wait till you're in a guild that can actually pump out some dps. There are a few fights where you will need to push every last bit of threat so the DPS can maximize their output. Malygos, Sapphrion, Thaddius are just a few.

I started using SoB on trash pulls because it appears to have more threat. What got me started thinking about this was Chronalis's posts about how he uses it in naxx. Until the 10 man I ran last night I never bothered to switch because SoC has been working for me and I never had any threat issues. But last night was my first night tanking with a well geared and skilled DK as the other tank.

I had problems pulling any mob off his DnD and other AoE abilities. Now this was for a few reasons...

1. He was better geared so his threat is naturally higher.
2. He was MT so I typically let him pull the pack (which gets him a good head start)
3. I have to run up to the group before i can start my threat. And by that time hes already been going for 2 or 3 seconds with DnD because its ranged.

Now obviously I can run in with him and all sorts of other stuff and if I get one or 2 mobs on me then I can keep them because of holy shield. I was never far behind him in AoE pulls but even 1% behind him is still 1% behind.

As all pallys know, if you dont take damage, you dont get healed, and if you dont get healed you dont get mana, if you dont get mana you cant do more threat to get agro to get healed to get mana.... I wasn't getting agro, i wasnt getting healed... the vicious cycle begins.

All that to say that I started using SoB and saw a noticeable difference. His threat was still obviously better than mine, but at least I could pick up a few mobs here and there. Keep in mind I only use SoB for trash, single target threat doesn't seem to be an issue ATM with our bugged SoTR and the last thing i want while tanking a boss is to take MORE damage...

Other reasons why the DKs threat was higher than mine.
1) My hit is a little low (163)
2) I need a little more gear ( he was using betrayer of humanity )
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...fist&n=Monalin
3) I need to work on my rotation a little more. I often find myself just hitting stuff when its up because the SoTR bug messes up my previous rotation. I lay consecrate down when mobs > 3.
4) DK AoE tanking abilities have surpassed pallys...

I'd like to know what y'all think.

[Veliane]

People say threat is not an issue... Just wait till you're in a guild that can actually pump out some dps. There are a few fights where you will need to push every last bit of threat so the DPS can maximize their output. Malygos, Sapphrion, Thaddius are just a few.

I started using SoB on trash pulls because it appears to have more threat. What got me started thinking about this was Chronalis's posts about how he uses it in naxx. Until the 10 man I ran last night I never bothered to switch because SoC has been working for me and I never had any threat issues. But last night was my first night tanking with a well geared and skilled DK as the other tank.

I had problems pulling any mob off his DnD and other AoE abilities. Now this was for a few reasons...

1. He was better geared so his threat is naturally higher.
2. He was MT so I typically let him pull the pack (which gets him a good head start)
3. I have to run up to the group before i can start my threat. And by that time hes already been going for 2 or 3 seconds with DnD because its ranged.

Now obviously I can run in with him and all sorts of other stuff and if I get one or 2 mobs on me then I can keep them because of holy shield. I was never far behind him in AoE pulls but even 1% behind him is still 1% behind.

As all pallys know, if you dont take damage, you dont get healed, and if you dont get healed you dont get mana, if you dont get mana you cant do more threat to get agro to get healed to get mana.... I wasn't getting agro, i wasnt getting healed... the vicious cycle begins.

All that to say that I started using SoB and saw a noticeable difference. His threat was still obviously better than mine, but at least I could pick up a few mobs here and there. Keep in mind I only use SoB for trash, single target threat doesn't seem to be an issue ATM with our bugged SoTR and the last thing i want while tanking a boss is to take MORE damage...

Other reasons why the DKs threat was higher than mine.
1) My hit is a little low (163)
2) I need a little more gear ( he was using betrayer of humanity )
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...fist&n=Monalin
3) I need to work on my rotation a little more. I often find myself just hitting stuff when its up because the SoTR bug messes up my previous rotation. I lay consecrate down when mobs > 3.
4) DK AoE tanking abilities have surpassed pallys...

I'd like to know what y'all think.

Threat changes.
Pretty much once a tank has stablished threat don't even bother trying to compete.

Also, Tank Paladin don't need to take damage to get mana back exclusively anymore, the least damage you take (by consecuense of more avoidance) = more mana with the change to Sanctuary.

I honestly think you need improve your gear and step up your game, pally AE threat is godly.

[monalin]

Threat changes.
Pretty much once a tank has stablished threat don't even bother trying to compete.

Also, Tank Paladin don't need to take damage to get mana back exclusively  anymore, the least damage you take (by consecuense of more avoidance) = more mana with the change to Sanctuary.

I honestly think you need improve your gear and step up your game, pally AE threat is godly.

I was never trying to compete for threat. But there is no reason why when clearing trash I should not attempt to take at least some of the mobs when there are 5+ in a pack.

You're right we don't need to take damage to get mana. Maybe I worded it wrong. But if I am not being attacked then I'm neither taking damage or dodging/blocking etc... so i still am not getting mana. I almost always choose Sanct over Kings if I have to choose.

Also, have you tanked with a DK tank? Obviously I need more gear but my gear isnt terrible. Neither is my skill. I'm more curious if other pallys have tanked with a DK and if so how does the threat compare? You say pally AE threat is godly... i'm not arguing that. I'm comparing DK AoE threat to pally AoE threat. Both classes are godly, my question is if there is one class that stands out more than the other.

Someone who understands the question I am asking please answer. Its fine if you want to say I suck and I need more gear but at least support it with some evidence, i'm trying to improve here so help me out.

[Mysmere]

threat is in issue now only because of rogue glitches and soon to be nerfed huntards. /shrug

[monalin]

threat is in issue now only because of rogue glitches and soon to be nerfed huntards. /shrug

Thanks but i wish someone would actually answer the question I'm asking. I know threat is an issue i said so myself.

[Fortoss]

You can try a few things. This works for me. I tank with SoV and glyph avenger shield(where it hits only one target). Righteous Shield and Hammer are great! U don't even have to use the glitch of using both ranks of SotR. Ur mana shouldn't be an issue, are u using divine plea and arcane torrent? <--NEW POT CDs! Consecrate only when u have to because if ur off tank and DK is aoe tanking why should u? Wastes mana but good for meters.

Other questions:
Are ur glyphs proper for ur role? Can skip taunt glyph as off-tank. When i OT I use spirit attunement,10% judgement damage, and Avenger Shield. Hit is important but alot of our damage isn't physical so we can kinda lack there. Right now judging light instead of wisdom(which i'm guessing cause of mana issues) causes more threat.(being changed)

About rotation, usually something like judge,AS,SotR,then HotR. HotR shouldn't pull at this point and ur threat should be good enough to start rotation all over. DON"T EVEN USE THE BUG unless u just got back from making food and dps has closed the gap.

[maevtr]

Thanks but i wish someone would actually answer the question I'm asking. I know threat is an issue i said so myself.

as far as i can tell there isnt a question in your statement at all, and if there was , you answered it yourself. He outgears you, you "let" him pull first, so obviously he is establishing more threat than you. So is your question, "do DK's now outrank us as aoe tanks?" no, we're still kings of aoe tanking, D&D is still on a cooldown and can not be kept up constantly, as consecrate fits with our rotation and can be up constantly if you want it to be. ret aura doesnt hurt either, draws more aggro to you. oh and btw.... why is a DK tanking? did i miss a meeting on that?

[Applegarth]

People say threat is not an issue... Just wait till you're in a guild that can actually pump out some dps. There are a few fights where you will need to push every last bit of threat so the DPS can maximize their output. Malygos, Sapphrion, Thaddius are just a few.

I started using SoB on trash pulls because it appears to have more threat. What got me started thinking about this was Chronalis's posts about how he uses it in naxx. Until the 10 man I ran last night I never bothered to switch because SoC has been working for me and I never had any threat issues. But last night was my first night tanking with a well geared and skilled DK as the other tank.

I had problems pulling any mob off his DnD and other AoE abilities. Now this was for a few reasons...

1. He was better geared so his threat is naturally higher.
2. He was MT so I typically let him pull the pack (which gets him a good head start)
3. I have to run up to the group before i can start my threat. And by that time hes already been going for 2 or 3 seconds with DnD because its ranged.

Now obviously I can run in with him and all sorts of other stuff and if I get one or 2 mobs on me then I can keep them because of holy shield. I was never far behind him in AoE pulls but even 1% behind him is still 1% behind.

As all pallys know, if you dont take damage, you dont get healed, and if you dont get healed you dont get mana, if you dont get mana you cant do more threat to get agro to get healed to get mana.... I wasn't getting agro, i wasnt getting healed... the vicious cycle begins.

All that to say that I started using SoB and saw a noticeable difference. His threat was still obviously better than mine, but at least I could pick up a few mobs here and there. Keep in mind I only use SoB for trash, single target threat doesn't seem to be an issue ATM with our bugged SoTR and the last thing i want while tanking a boss is to take MORE damage...

Other reasons why the DKs threat was higher than mine.
1) My hit is a little low (163)
2) I need a little more gear ( he was using betrayer of humanity )
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...fist&n=Monalin
3) I need to work on my rotation a little more. I often find myself just hitting stuff when its up because the SoTR bug messes up my previous rotation. I lay consecrate down when mobs > 3.
4) DK AoE tanking abilities have surpassed pallys...

I'd like to know what y'all think.

So what do you dps or do you tank I am confused

[Morthengel]

To pull the mobs off another player you need to exceed his threat by 10% at melee range. Without your reactive threat (was a good part of pally threat at TBC, not sure if it is still the same), you will never pull a mob off a DK. You should be pulling first and let the DK peel a few mobs off you.