1. #1

    SP. What do we need?

    My sp is 79 and i am starting to find gear to it and i use maxdps.com to find out what is good gear and it says that spellpower is best

    (+) 10 Spell Power: 8.73 dps
    (+) 10 Hit Rating: 3.24 dps
    (+) 10 Crit Rating: 3.31 dps
    (+) 10 Haste Rating: 3.20 dps
    (+) 10 Spirit: 0.87 dps
    (if you do not know this system, it means that if i get 10 spell power then i get 8.73 more dps output and so on)

    so if i do what it says then i just stack spellpower and forget about the other stats, can that realy be the right thing to do?
    my crit is only 13,12 and then i tells me to stack spellpower that sounds wrong in my head.
    so just want to know what stats i need to get the most? and what i can ignore?

    sry 4 bad spelling

  2. #2

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    Well, when you hit 80, the system changes a little bit.

    Usually, first thing to get would be hit rating. All the other stats are meaningless if you get a miss. After that, spell damage, then haste. Crit and spirit are the stats you don't worry about that much, and you'll end up getting spirit tacked onto your gear as you go along, same with crit.

  3. #3

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyzoa
    Well, when you hit 80, the system changes a little bit.

    Usually, first thing to get would be hit rating. All the other stats are meaningless if you get a miss. After that, spell damage, then haste. Crit and spirit are the stats you don't worry about that much, and you'll end up getting spirit tacked onto your gear as you go along, same with crit.
    Eww don't stack haste. Crit is so much better now between the Imp Spirit Taps, the Glyph of Shadow, and the change to shadowform with dots.

  4. #4

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuggle
    Eww don't stack haste. Crit is so much better now between the Imp Spirit Taps, the Glyph of Shadow, and the change to shadowform with dots.
    I've stacked both before. Haste gives you more of a dps increase over crit. More spells within set time frame = more chances to crit = more damage.

  5. #5

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    Sawart, your calculations are wrong. Hit is always better upgrade than spellpower if u arent caped.

    Thats are good proportions: (PP is pseudopower)
    * 1 spellpower = 1 PP
    * 1 crit rating = 0.61 PP
    * 1 haste = 0.56 PP
    * 1 spirit = 0.21 PP
    * 1 int = 0.19 PP
    * 1 hit = 1.12 PP (when not hit-capped)

    All u need to know is here:
    http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=16992


    I cleared almost all in WotlK and always i was at top3 (often top1) in DPS. So, good gear, good geming and good rotation - spriest in doing insane dps.

  6. #6

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyzoa
    I've stacked both before. Haste gives you more of a dps increase over crit. More spells within set time frame = more chances to crit = more damage.
    False, to the point I laughed :>

    First off, estimates at shadowpriest.com work if and ONLY IF the fight is static, if you have 0 ping and if you have 0 human reaction lag. I don't know where you got that haste does that because 1) our dots aren't cast at every GCD, 2) Mind Blast is on a lengthy CD which makes only Mind Flay and Mind Sear to scale directly with haste. Also, the only fight where you won't move a lot is Patchwerk and to some point Kel'Thuzad.

    Crit increases damage done by all 3 dots, which makes it scale with VT extremely good.
    It also increases the frequency of your Mind Flay crits so crit > haste for MF also. I won't mention MB since you have crit there with talents too. So overall - crit > haste.

    Regarding what to stack - Hit, Spellpower, Crit, Haste. That doesn't mean that 10% crit and 2000 spellpower is better than 25% crit and 1800 spellpower, there is a fine limit on what and how much to gain trough gems and enchants. Since it's your character, you should experiment yourself to see if high spellpower or crit or haste fit you better.

    I myself have 1950 spellpower (+260 from Illustration of Dragon Soul), 5% haste and 21% crit selfbuffed with Inner Fire. Depending on fight, I'm easily in top 5, usually ending up 2nd in damage meter (and I believe damage meters suck ass since they kill the point of people performing certain tasks and they concentrate on dps).

  7. #7

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    False, to the point I laughed :>

    First off, estimates at shadowpriest.com work if and ONLY IF the fight is static, if you have 0 ping and if you have 0 human reaction lag. I don't know where you got that haste does that because 1) our dots aren't cast at every GCD, 2) Mind Blast is on a lengthy CD which makes only Mind Flay and Mind Sear to scale directly with haste. Also, the only fight where you won't move a lot is Patchwerk and to some point Kel'Thuzad.

    Crit increases damage done by all 3 dots, which makes it scale with VT extremely good.
    It also increases the frequency of your Mind Flay crits so crit > haste for MF also. I won't mention MB since you have crit there with talents too. So overall - crit > haste.

    Regarding what to stack - Hit, Spellpower, Crit, Haste. That doesn't mean that 10% crit and 2000 spellpower is better than 25% crit and 1800 spellpower, there is a fine limit on what and how much to gain trough gems and enchants. Since it's your character, you should experiment yourself to see if high spellpower or crit or haste fit you better.

    I myself have 1950 spellpower (+260 from Illustration of Dragon Soul), 5% haste and 21% crit selfbuffed with Inner Fire. Depending on fight, I'm easily in top 5, usually ending up 2nd in damage meter (and I believe damage meters suck ass since they kill the point of people performing certain tasks and they concentrate on dps).
    This actually piqued my interest, to the point where I plugged in your stats, made up a reasonable spirit score, estimated the actual haste number, and took SW out, since it appears as though you don't use it, since you didn't mention it. This is what I pulled up for stats that could benefit you.

    (+) 10 Spell Power: 13.16
    (+) 10 Hit Rating: 0.00
    (+) 10 Crit Rating: 6.29
    (+) 10 Haste Rating: 6.61
    (+) 10 Spirit: 1.32

    However, when I did my own stats, this is what I pulled up.

    (+) 10 Spell Power: 12.79
    (+) 10 Hit Rating: 0.00
    (+) 10 Crit Rating: 5.92
    (+) 10 Haste Rating: 5.74
    (+) 10 Spirit: 1.28

    This actually leads me to believe that there really isn't a stat that you should stack between crit and haste, and that you can balance the two. Overstacking one causes the vaule of it to go down, and therefore be outweighed by the neglected stat, at which point you build it up until your other stat becomes greater again. For my current stats, if I keep the same haste value and add 4% more crit, haste then becomes more of a dps gain., then it's in constant flux.

    Guess the lesson on the whole is that you should just constantly plug your stats in to maxdps and judge from there. For some, you may need to increase your crit, others, your haste.

    EDIT:This was done with all possible raid modifiers in place. Stuff may vary depending on what you know is in your raid, so take that into account.








  8. #8

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    Thx for all the answers
    keep op the discusion if u like, then i will read it all when i come home from a vercation i get on tomorowro

    just have one more qustion, is maxdps.com any good for any class?, if they are wrong now then i dont want to use it on my other chars

  9. #9

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    I wouldn't exactly say they're wrong. They're like your learning experience with the game, always changing. The stats themselves will constantly change until they are maxed out (Hence why you gain no more value from hit when it is capped, it would be the same for crit and haste). When it all comes down to it, it's simply balance. If you overstack on a particular stat, it becomes less useful, then the stat you neglected increases your dps more until you balance it out again.

  10. #10

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    Biggest tip from a full pre-tbc clearing, full sunwell pre-nerf clearing, full wotlk clearing SP......never ever ever ever ever use Maxdps. it's that bad.

    Shadowpriest.com is the most resourceful site online for a shadowpriest, and also has resources for every other caster. There is far more beneficial information than even Elitist Jerks. Shadowpriest.com ... go there, and never look back. BUT, don't post blindly. everything you need to know about your class can be found with reading. Read, then read, then read some more. There is nothing you cannot find on the site.

  11. #11

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    The problem with MaxDPS is several things.
    1 - it's not people who thoerycraft about the class doing the coding, so errors are more likely to spring up
    2 - the coding is hidden so no one can point out the flaws
    3 - because it's not people who theorycraft doing it, it's slow to take into account bugs, buffs, or new information
    4 - unchangable rotations
    5 - miscellany bugs, like for a while the programming taking the full 38 hit rating on an otherwise-shitty piece of gear into account when you'd cap with 2

    For those reasons,the ElitistJerks spreadsheets/threads and shadowpriest.com threads are the best, with Rawr and SimulationCraft being useful if you know how to interpret it.

  12. #12

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyzoa

    This actually leads me to believe that there really isn't a stat that you should stack between crit and haste, and that you can balance the two. Overstacking one causes the vaule of it to go down, and therefore be outweighed by the neglected stat, at which point you build it up until your other stat becomes greater again. For my current stats, if I keep the same haste value and add 4% more crit, haste then becomes more of a dps gain., then it's in constant flux.
    I do agree with you on this one, you can't stack one stat over another to safely assume you are going to achieve maximum dps. I have insane lag problems on certain fights, to the point that I have 1500ms. Mostly because of that I avoid haste since I can't pull out the best out of it.

  13. #13

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    I never got people saying stack this, stack that. Shadowpriest.com gives you the rating and even works out the value of items for you. The main one is the obsession with hit, getting hit capped is very important but you should not use hit items if the total score of another item is higher than your hit item (when you add up all the stats). The number of people I have seen using inferior items just because of hit is impressive.
    'u get constant hit by ice shit from roof so you can travel instantly all across the room'

  14. #14

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    A simple answer for you Sawart, is to stack hit until you reach the hit-cap. When you've reached it, you can start stacking spellpower.
    That's how I do it. All other stats are bonus stats for me. I value crit over haste though.

  15. #15

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    Assuming: Blessing of Kings, Twisted Faith, Improved Spirit Tap, and Glyph of Shadows upkeep (given enough crit to make it sustainable), where does Spirit really lie given its benefits?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  16. #16
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    Re: SP. What do we need?

    If you intend to raid as a level 80, hit cap comes first and foremost. Considering talents, your goal should be 290. This is with 3 points in both Shadow Focus and Misery. Afterwards, crit and spellpower should be next. Haste is okay to make mind flays a little faster cast, but not necessary due to the changes made to shadow dps. Spirit will come on most of the gear you get, anyhow, so it's not a major focus, bot look at it some when you see gear. Crit/spirit gear is really good, as well as hit/spirit.

    As for gems, just gem accordingly as always. If your hit is a few points off, grab a couple of hit gems. If you look for socket bonuses blue should be spirit, yellow crit or hit, and red is obvious.

    Hope all that helps!

  17. #17

    Re: SP. What do we need?

    again thx 4 all the help thing i have a good idear of what i need now

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