Living seed, possible fixes?

[dbuddca]

I won't get into how living seed is not worth the script its written in
instead I have come up with a few solutions and would like your input...

1- Living seed would act like a capacitor, storing the healing done by over healing hot ticks, blooming upon next damage or timer expiry.

would function like this... Re-growth crit for 9.8k... living seed is applied.... living seed gains 1900 from re-growth, (tank doges) living seed gains 2300 from rejuv... tank is hit (-9000).... living seed heals X for 4,200...

this could become overpowered as almost no healing is going to waste, but what if it was a % base of the over heal done by hots say 30-60 % with lets say an 6 second shelf life.


2- A synergy buff to hots: living seed would increase HOTs received by the target by 15% for 10 seconds (other classes have an buff similar to this)

3- Living seed restores 2% of base mana, 10 rage/energy and 10 runic power every 3 seconds for 12 ( if only replenish was useful ./sigh)

4- While living seed is active it prevents the target from death, effect will be removed when a target receives a bow that would normally kill it ( much like the priest talent) lasts 8 seconds... this would help out with massive burst damage on the tanks preventing the " i swear my NS/HT got off"


Just thought less QQ and more suggestions on how to fix this shit talent, since blizzard seems to be ignoring Tree druids at the moment, forces one to do their work for them

[Degrador]

I won't get into how living seed is not worth the script its written in

And why not? Living seed is fine as it is - for me it counts as 2-5% of my total healing, and it requires no action at all to use it.

Personally I think the only ones who complain about it are people who are using Nourish instead of Regrowth - assuming that's the case then you can't complain that the talent doesn't work for how you've chosen to heal. It'd be like cat form druids complaining about Protector of the Pack...

[Ravenblade]

Living Seed is fine as it is.

[nevermore]

And why not? Living seed is fine as it is - for me it counts as 2-5% of my total healing, and it requires no action at all to use it.

Personally I think the only ones who complain about it are people who are using Nourish instead of Regrowth - assuming that's the case then you can't complain that the talent doesn't work for how you've chosen to heal. It'd be like cat form druids complaining about Protector of the Pack...

Or maybe some people like to play properly. Getting most of your healing done by HoTs, that is.

In an average raid, only 30% of my effective healing is done by direct heals.
Now take my crit chance into account.
And that the target must not be overhealed.

Yes, Living Seed should be a tiny bit more useful. 3 points for a talent that high in the Resto tree... It's kinda meh. But then again, we could start discussing Replenish -____-"

[Serai]

ì like living seed the way it is, im a fond user of regrowth and its a great buff to that

druid healing is great cause it can be done in so many ways at the moment, if you don't like living seed, pick another talent

[Degrador]

Or maybe some people like to play properly. Getting most of your healing done by HoTs, that is.

What the hell does that have to do anything? Are you honestly going to tell me that 3xLB, Rejuv and Regrowth HoT can keep a tank up in 25 man raids? Unless you're assigned to raid heals and are just spamming WG to cover everyone then eventually you're going to have to cast direct heals on the tank. When you do that, druids basically have a choice between Nourish, Regrowth, and Glyphed Healing Touch. The third option there is rarely used by any Resto druids basically because it requires 12 talent points to be truly effective, uses up a Glyph slot, and prevents you from being able to use NS+HT for a massive heal in emergencies. For taking care of such spike damage (which if you do play properly you'd realise is much more of a threat to tank survival than total healing output) I use Regrowth, which procs Living Seed > 60% of the time, and hence accounts for 2-5% of total healing. For 3 points it's perfectly fine IMO.

[Morganskunk]

Living seed is great for regrowth which should always be specced. I think its a great spell that works well with how druids have always healed.

[procne]

i think the problem with living seed that OP meant is that living seed heals for 20% of crit's healing DONE, and not overhealing. so if regrowth crits for 8k on full hp tank then resulting living seed will heal him for... 0

[Sans]

i think the problem with living seed that OP meant is that living seed heals for 20% of crit's healing DONE, and not overhealing. so if regrowth crits for 8k on full hp tank then resulting living seed will heal him for... 0

Its not a problem.

[zox]

Why would you cast a regrowth on a full hp tank? If you're only refreshing it then presumably the tank is not in trouble anyway.

[Hootzil]

Living Seed is useful, but it certainly isn't fun.

I'd honestly like to see it be changed so it adds more synergy within the tree for using Nourish. Perhaps something like:

Living Seed:
When you critically hit your target with Swiftmend, Regrowth, Healing Touch, or Lifebloom bloom, you have a 100% chance to plant a Living Seed on the target which increases the critical strike chance of your Nourish spell by 33/66/100%

or to mirror Eclipse:

Living Seeds:
When you critically hit with Nourish, you have a 33/66/100% chance of applying Seed of Growth to your target which increases healing done by your next Regrowth spell by 20%. When you critically hit with Regrowth, you have a 20/30/60% of applying Seed of Nourishment to your target which increases the critical strike chance of your next Nourish by 50%. Seeds last 15 sec and have a 5 sec cooldown.

[procne]

Why would you cast a regrowth on a full hp tank? If you're only refreshing it then presumably the tank is not in trouble anyway.

when there are few healers healing same target, like on patchwerk, there is high chance ur regrowth will land on tank moment after tank was topped. also using regrowth on full hp target could be used for similar purpose as priest's PoM

[Swiftly]

i dont see why living seed is a bad thing. it is similar to priest's prayers of mending (PoM) with out it being casted on the target. only healing upon getting hit ensures for low over healing and high efficiency. but unlike PoM it does not bounce form target to target.

does anyone know if living seed can crit just like PoM?

[Degrador]

When you critically hit with Nourish, you have a 33/66/100% chance of applying Seed of Growth to your target which increases healing done by your next Regrowth spell by 20%. When you critically hit with Regrowth, you have a 20/30/60% of applying Seed of Nourishment to your target which increases the critical strike chance of your next Nourish by 50%. Seeds last 15 sec and have a 5 sec cooldown.

I like the idea - could be an interesting way to heal, although usually I find I've got plenty enough to worry about when healing without watching for crits and alternating spells as a result

[sd78]

Doesn't Seed only get one charge as opposed to Poo Shield and PoM?

[Morganskunk]

Why would you cast a regrowth on a full hp tank? If you're only refreshing it then presumably the tank is not in trouble anyway.

the very rare times, like max the spider boss in naxx..

I have seen living seed 'stack'' and when the tank is dmged it heals them

[Swiftly]

Doesn't Seed only get one charge as opposed to Poo Shield and PoM?

unlike PoM, living seed does not have charges, but it does stack! yes stacks. so if you crit and your tank does not get hit living seed will stack up so when it procs it will heal bigger. this is really good for tanks that have good avoidance but crappy mitigation.

[Vilius]

What the hell does that have to do anything? Are you honestly going to tell me that 3xLB, Rejuv and Regrowth HoT can keep a tank up in 25 man raids? Unless you're assigned to raid heals and are just spamming WG to cover everyone then eventually you're going to have to cast direct heals on the tank. When you do that, druids basically have a choice between Nourish, Regrowth, and Glyphed Healing Touch. The third option there is rarely used by any Resto druids basically because it requires 12 talent points to be truly effective, uses up a Glyph slot, and prevents you from being able to use NS+HT for a massive heal in emergencies. For taking care of such spike damage (which if you do play properly you'd realise is much more of a threat to tank survival than total healing output) I use Regrowth, which procs Living Seed > 60% of the time, and hence accounts for 2-5% of total healing. For 3 points it's perfectly fine IMO.

No, 3xLB Rejuv and Regrowth does not keep the tank up when I am assigned to tank heal. But Regrowth is a waste of time AND mana when compared to Nourish *IF* you have the 3 hot's up. If you don't have the hot's up (Like for instance a quick big raid heal is necessary) Then Regrowth is a much better choice.

Oh and for some blinding math on this topic: Resto4Life

[procne]

unlike PoM, living seed does not have charges, but it does stack! yes stacks. so if you crit and your tank does not get hit living seed will stack up so when it procs it will heal bigger. this is really good for tanks that have good avoidance but crappy mitigation.

i dont think it happens often that u can cast few regrowths before topping the tank

[Degrador]

No, 3xLB Rejuv and Regrowth does not keep the tank up when I am assigned to tank heal. But Regrowth is a waste of time AND mana when compared to Nourish *IF* you have the 3 hot's up. If you don't have the hot's up (Like for instance a quick big raid heal is necessary) Then Regrowth is a much better choice.

Oh and for some blinding math on this topic: Resto4Life

Nourish is only worth it once you have 4 piece T7. Until then, 3 HoTs is no different to 1 HoT. We also did the full math on it in another thread, and the thread you linked was also included, and there's some pretty weird math that he used there for calculating the effectiveness of Living Seed.

Incidentally, you might actually want to read the 'Significant Observations' of the link you gave:

Nourish is a terrible spell. With the lowest HPS output of any of our spells and among the lowest HPM output (underperformed only by glyphed Healing Touch and only when being used as a tank heal). It’s single saving grace is to acquire 4-piece T7 where it suddenly becomes the most efficient choice for a tank heal (highest HPM), assuming you keep Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, and Regrowth on the target.

Regrowth seems to be the Renaissance Man of direct heals with good HPS and competitive HPM. This is in addition to its 21-27 second heal over time that allows for a Swiftmend. This will likely continue to be my “go to” direct heal of choice, a selection that will encourage me to eschew spell crit and not completely thumb my tree nose at spell haste.

In terms of tank heals, Regrowth has the highest throughput and is the best choice to “catch up” when things go awry. It’s HPM is also fantastic, only trumped by that of a Nourish with 4-piece T7.


In other words, Regrowth is definitely NOT "a waste of time AND mana when compared to Nourish".