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  1. #1

    Priest pvp problems

    Just some ideas about how to increase shadow and disc/holy spec priests survivability in pvp and just some ideas I have been thinking about,
    I have played my priest since the game came out many many years ago, and never have I done as bad in bg or pvp arena as now.

    1. Power word shield.
    It would be very simple to give the priests a small boost through a small change in this spell,
    if we get hit by a melee or ranged attack that gives us a debuff (MS,poisons,disease etc) and the shield absorbs the attack we dont get the debuff.
    Sounds right to me, the shield absorbed for instance a mortal strike, why should we get the debuff from it, the strike didnt hit us.

    2. shadow word death.
    We currently have survivability issues and still our only instant damage spell has to do the damage we deal back to us.
    I think all dps classes have 1 or more instant damage spells in their arsenal, some classes even have more than 4 instant spells/abilitys, but we currently have 1 instant damage spell that I rarely even use any more in pve due to the fact that mind flay is better in my oppinion, and the only instant spell we have deals our damage back.
    Would be a simple fix to remove the damage we take back from this spell and thus improve shadow priest survivability in pvp.

    3. Fade or Improved fade.
    Doesnt remove all slowing effects (poisons etc), usefull on hamstring for about 2 seconds, until the warrior re applys his hamstring.
    simply give it a chance for target to miss the priest by some % while its up, for instance while improved fade is up chance for opponents melee or ranged attacks to miss the shadow priest by 20%.
    This would boost the shadow priest agains his hardest opponent the rogue/enchshaman/hunter/retpaly/deathknight/etc

    4. Vampyric touch.
    make it instant cast, it wont affect dps output in pve, but will make life easyer in pvp, being able to move and cast makes a big difference.

    5. Dispersion.
    Was a bit usefull for mana regen when I was using my t6 gear in nax, at the moment Im almost fully geared and I have no mana problems whatsoever, I only take the talent because there is nothing in the other talent trees that could be interesting to take over this talent.
    In arena its useless, just delays death.
    Would be good if it would remove physical effects on the priest like hamstring, poisons, disease, when activated but wouldnt have to remove magical effects.
    Or just give us another 51 point talent, like a damage spell...


    Some ideas for damage spells.

    Finger of death.
    Instant cast does shadow damage.
    sounds like a great spell.

    Prayer of death.
    Like prayer of mending exept it's a damage dot that ticks every 3 seconds and jumps between enemy targets, if no other enemy target is in range after it ticks it is cancelled.
    sounds cool to me.

    Shadow word death.
    Instant aoe spell with a cooldown.
    does damage around the priest and 5% or the damage done is health back to the caster.



    Anyway Gl with your priests guys.

    Reg Stgeorge




  2. #2

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    We cannot root / stun anything, nor can we run away. We are susceptible to interrupts because our strongest nuke is a 3 sec channel. We don't have a single thing in our arsenal that stops melee from dpsing us, while they have various interrupts such as pummel, kick, strangulate, hammer of justice, silencing shot and so on.

    Until we get something that enables us to get the range and dps, then we're going to see some proper play. Even if by some miracle they doubled our dps and all spells became instants, we'd still get owned by melee just because they have too many means to counter us.

    Our cc abilities are really weak, fear is broken since S2 in TBC, our silence is piece of shit on a huge cooldown and I won't mention hymns of fail.

    And out of all the stuns in the game we can break ONE with the trinket. Melee gets to choose how, when and where to fight, with means to counter us. One would assume that a caster would at least get to pick how to fight if we're at disadvantage in close combat.

    Also, priest community has been pointing out shadow pvp flaws trough the entire TBC, and we didn't get anything except Dispersion - which delays death for 6 seconds and nothing else. Any smart pvper out there will stop throwing nukes in ball of purple cloud and resume doing so after 6 seconds. Of course, snares still apply even when we're Dispersed so I really fail to see what those 6 seconds bring us. I doubt anything will happen any time soon with shadow pvp, if at all.

    There will be a handful of guys like Noxn was, who will excel in kiting, running and having insanely skilled teammates who'll manage to keep them alive and dps at the same time and they're going to reach higher ratings while the rest of the mortals will be pissed off.

    Btw. - SWD is a great spell to break CC such as sheep if you time it correctly. It's probably one of our spells that's really great for pvp.

  3. #3

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    We don't have a single thing in our arsenal that stops melee from dpsing us,
    You are a priest! A clothie! You -shouldn't- be able to kill a melee when facing next to them. You are supposed to deal damage from range, with terrain advantages. For example in WSG, dps from the second or third floor, or from on top of the cliff. Or stand behind your melee in the open field. In EOTS there are all kinds of nooks and crannies. On top of the bridge scaffolding, or far below the flag spawn.

    Stop trying to stand next to a guy wielding a huge sword!

  4. #4

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums
    You are a priest! A clothie! You -shouldn't- be able to kill a melee when facing next to them. You are supposed to deal damage from range, with terrain advantages. For example in WSG, dps from the second or third floor, or from on top of the cliff. Or stand behind your melee in the open field. In EOTS there are all kinds of nooks and crannies. On top of the bridge scaffolding, or far below the flag spawn.

    Stop trying to stand next to a guy wielding a huge sword!
    Wow, after playing for a few years and trough my 50k Hks this has never ever crossed my mind, EVER!
    Exactly, I will dps the shadowstepping stealthed rogue that I don't even see from 3rd floor in Nagrand arena and I will completely own! Insane advice, thanks, just what we all needed. Shadow will now excel in arenas, with only having to push 4 buttons to completely smash everything to ground.

  5. #5

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums
    You are a priest! A clothie! You -shouldn't- be able to kill a melee when facing next to them. You are supposed to deal damage from range, with terrain advantages. For example in WSG, dps from the second or third floor, or from on top of the cliff. Or stand behind your melee in the open field. In EOTS there are all kinds of nooks and crannies. On top of the bridge scaffolding, or far below the flag spawn.

    Stop trying to stand next to a guy wielding a huge sword!
    1. you don't play a priest, am I right? We have no way to keep distance while melee has several ways to close distance. Plethora of DKs and deathgrip anyone?

    2. I hope you are not in my battlegroup, because those are all places not to be in EOTS if you want a win. Will the enemy just stand on the bridge while I dps, or continue on to the base?

  6. #6

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Just a FYI PWS will adsorb damage from SWD <3
    Make the most of your self, for that's all there is of you.

  7. #7

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Have not played SP in this season. But had a wonderful and fun exp in a4 as a SP, and then as Dis. Both specs are fun and have a lot of similar in tactics.
    Actually all i see is a buff of SP - 51 shadow tree talent and 100% bonus crit/high crit rating on gear. There was and still is only 3 class that can do insane burst damage in pvp: Arc Mage, Multi rogue and SP. No other class can make something like that in a very short period of time. Ret pally maybe - but not sure actually.
    Yes there was and still is a problem of choosing partner - only rogue will suit.
    As for a4 season - the only problem for SP/rogue combo was 2dd combo with a rogue. Just because priest could not survive or escape the insane start burst of such team - that was changed by giving SH 51 Stalent. It will give your partner much needed time for creating you a save_time passage to prepare an attack. And you will keep most of your life. Just use it like a frostmage its iceblock - not when you are low on HP but when you or your partner don't have CD to run/let you run away.
    As for h/dd: if you start and keep pressure - you'll win most of the times. If not - your skill will be shown in such battle. Lost game actually .
    As for CC - SP has a plenty of it. Fear for trinket the enemy. Silence when you partner is ready for finishing burst and the burst target does not have trinket.
    Actually - even if silence would have a 10 min cd that would not change much. It is a one use spell. Mostly :P
    2dd combo is a very hard to master - one mistake and the battle is lost. Not lucky - resists and the battle is lost. That's why blizz tried to make the game less casual by removing stun chances and so on...

    So i don't think SP need any changes. It is hard now. It was hard last season and it still is. Just get resi. Lots of it.

  8. #8

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Did you play sp and disc on higher ratings (2K+) or just up to 1800?

    SP could burst down only a warrior and nothing else in TBC. Hunter, Rogue, Mage - larger burst than SP, in PvP, with hunter being insane in terms of burst damage now.

    Disc and sp are such vastly different specs and way of playing that I'm wondering what you did if you claim that sp and disc have similarities. The only similarity I see is that you are focused 1st and need to survive.

    Just use it like a frostmage its iceblock - not when you are low on HP but when you or your partner don't have CD to run/let you run away.
    I hate to break it to you but you are low on hp about 6 seconds into arena start, try to play SP now and you'll see.

    As for h/dd: if you start and keep pressure - you'll win most of the times. If not - your skill will be shown in such battle. Lost game actually
    SP pressure = DPS. The only one who can't stop your dps is disc priest, but all the pummels, kicks, strangulates, frost shocks, stuns, etc will drop your, oh so great burst. Btw how do you start and keep pressure vs feral druid and rogue? You can't even see them and it takes them literally 6 seconds to kill you, just enough time for you to pop dispersion.

    In order to be competitive in higher brackets, sp does need changes. We don't have the burst, I don't know where you got that from, with more and more people reaching resilience cap and with us having 20% crit from PvP gear I don't really see when we'll crit enough to have the burst, and you're forgetting about our need to stack SW in order to deliver the punch.

    I don't know how and who you played with, but you're living in a dream world or your battlegroup is simply what I'd like to have

  9. #9

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Vel
    Have not played SP in this season. But had a wonderful and fun exp in a4 as a SP, and then as Dis. Both specs are fun and have a lot of similar in tactics.
    Actually all i see is a buff of SP - 51 shadow tree talent and 100% bonus crit/high crit rating on gear. There was and still is only 3 class that can do insane burst damage in pvp: Arc Mage, Multi rogue and SP. No other class can make something like that in a very short period of time.
    Yes there was and still is a problem of choosing partner - only rogue will suit.
    As for a4 season - the only problem for SP/rogue combo was 2dd combo with a rogue. Just because priest could not survive or escape the insane start burst of such team - that was changed by giving SH 51 Stalent. It will give your partner much needed time for creating you a save_time passage to prepare an attack. And you will keep most of your life. Just use it like a frostmage its iceblock - not when you are low on HP but when you or your partner don't have CD to run/let you run away.
    As for h/dd: if you start and keep pressure - you'll win most of the times. If not - your skill will be shown in such battle. Lost game actually .
    As for CC - SP has a plenty of it. Fear for trinket the enemy. Silence when you partner is ready for finishing burst and the burst target does not have trinket.
    Actually - even if silence would have a 10 min cd that would not change much. It is a one use spell. Mostly :P
    2dd combo is a very hard to master - one mistake and the battle is lost. Not lucky - resists and the battle is lost. That's why blizz tried to make the game less casual by removing stun chances and so on...

    So i don't think SP need any changes. It is hard now. It was hard last season and it still is. Just get resi. Lots of it.
    You do do understand that SP actually suffers MOST of all classes just of resi. Yes, it is a great protection against burst, which all classes have. But it is also the best protection against a shadow priest. So whats is really the point of living 2-3 seconds longer, when our damage will go down a lot more in counter?

    First, we have the lowest crit rating of all classes. A normal geared shadow priest will probably at the most have around 21% crit (with talents, and 17% maybe that effect our dots). Where any other "critclass" will be around 30% or more.

    As they changed our dots, all of our dots are scaled down if our crit rating goes down. So a class with high resilience will probably just laugh at our dots. We are looking at 2-3% crit that will effect our dots, and 6-7% crit on our MB/MF (with talents).

    And... there is also the effect that resilience by base scales down dot damage. I don't know if this stacks with that our crit rating going down/dotting scales down.

    1230 resi = 15% crit reduction on our dot dmg, 15% dot dmg reduction, = 30% dot dmg reduction...

    The problem is still that we can't get any of our cast based nukes away, and their damage is also modified by resi. When we do a 2.5k MB/2.5k SW (1.5 cast), the retri paladin does the same damage with an instant nuke and has lots of defense abilities where we have really only one, fear.

    We did have a nice burst back in the days, today all classes have it, and ours is actually one the worst.


  10. #10

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Is not one of , Is the worst atm. Even with a truckload fo resil your dead before you can shake a rogue/feral now. The problem as I see it is blizz made us almost a pre-requeset for any raid in TBC due to our mana based returns and as such practically every raid I ever saw had 2-3 SP's running. While our DPS sucked topping out in Sunwell at around 1600 the advantage was to take us for our "Mana battery" capabilities and this seems to have left blizz with the idea that it's ok now to leave us in the PvP scenario that we faced in vanilla when we literally melted faces. Problem is since then a lot of classes have been reshaped almost and we simply don't stand a chance in PvP as our class is in it's shadowform.

    It seems to me that blizzards whole idea of " We want every class/spec to be able to pvp/raid" Is just a big fat lie. Yes they made us raiders in TBC after we were neglected practically all through vanilla as a waste of a raid spot, But we could pvp very well i vanilla, Then into TBC we hit a middle ground for a very short period of time when we got to raid and do well in PvP and now that we have high dps in LK it sees any chance we ever had in pvp has been DISPERSED :P maybe thats where the name of that shit 51pt talent comes from, To show us we are wasted in pvp now. I don't really mind going Disco for PvP yet again to get somewhere but quit the lying blizz or do somthing to change how we fare in Shadow for pvp pls.

  11. #11

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    You are correct - as for longlivety of a priest in arena - i am holy now and cant live for long against 2dd. 6-12 sec. Btw they also can't live for such time against my partner so 70/30% wins/lost. Thanks to a spirit of redemption.
    But i am pve priest for now as in talents as in gear - Raids>Arena. And have about 300 resi - nothing at all. So nothing unexpeted here.

    S4 - 2k was my roof unfortunately. Set at then range +-50. Stuck at rogue/mage combos that also could not jump higher. I wish i had a dispersion then... i already was dis when 51 talents appeared.

    As for making pressure - it is not only dps - it is CC mostly. As soon as anyone sees priest heading to them they hide - that is your time to burst for trinket the focus target. If you are happy - he'll die, if not - you are prepared for real finishing burst, not a fake one.

    As for kicks - have you ever tried to show your back to multi rogue ? When they could only multi from the back. That most of the times was the last mistake the enemy made. So that problem appeared only with 2dd teams.

    As for 2dd - it was my week space. I can't tell what to do in that case because it was my problem at s4.

    Yes you are right - i have not tested shadow and dis actually for now: i don't have resi, 300 is laughable. But i am almost sure that Arenas will become more close to the s2/s3/s4 ones. And btw blizz already are promising something like that.

    And again - shadow are already powerful. I don't think they need some major changing. And there will not be any.
    Btw - BK arena SP had NO crit at all. Did not hurt.

  12. #12

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    They won't change a thing in shadow pvp, and in 2v2 we'll depend on extraordinary teammate (most likely insanely pve geared rogue or ret paladin). As it was said before, with resi our damage will go way way down and our survivability will practically remain the same. We don't have any defenses, like frostmage for example who is awesomely fun to play and they are really really hard to kill, even if the opponent is mediocre player.

    We're in the same boat as warlocks, no actual attack power and close to none defensive abilities. It feels, once more, that we are tanking damage while our teammate finishes someone off.

    Now where's the fun to do so many battlegrounds and so many arena farming in order to collect some decent pvp gear in order to get to arena and concentrate on surviving rather than dpsing? From 0 resi to resi cap, that's what a SP will do and it is no fun at all to be glass tank.

  13. #13

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Vel
    As for making pressure - it is not only dps - it is CC mostly. As soon as anyone sees priest heading to them they hide - that is your time to burst for trinket the focus target. If you are happy - he'll die, if not - you are prepared for real finishing burst, not a fake one
    What class will "hide" when they see a Shadow Priest coming in arena? If any class should hide, its the shadow priest. We don't have a any burst abilties to handle the resi/HP that people have now. The highest burst we can do is around 5k in arena, with players with 20k HP. Thats 1/4 of their health. After that "burst" we don't have anything in our arsenal to pull away. One ambush is actually more then what we can do in 1.5 cast time with CDs up.

    It is quite clear if you read forums, if you look at actuall leader boards that shadow is not even up at 1800 normally. Those players that have reached that roof have done it cause they have exceptional partners, that probably would be running 2000+ if he would replace the shadow priest.


  14. #14

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Imagine how non heal shamans feel you'll understand that the sun is shining ;D
    That is about glass tanks.
    And btw - if you played priest at pvp you should already get used to be a constant tank. Red cloth for any bull.

    As i have said - i have not tested shadow in arena - because of resi. I just can't believe that while blizz gave us everything we asked for being 70 is uncomfortable now.

  15. #15

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Im sorry to inform you, that SW DOES NOT break sheep anymore.. and its just way to lame.

    Ill add Moonkins to the list of bursters, you cant surive unless your controlling him/her for some time.
    Feral Druids can be nasty too, especially when they are playing with a Rogue.
    Hunters can rape everything if they get just 7-10 sec.


  16. #16

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurotrip
    Im sorry to inform you, that SW DOES NOT break sheep anymore.. and its just way to lame.
    Since when? Any source?

  17. #17

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    At sunday(2 days ago) SW was still working as contersheep/conterblind.
    sleeping :

  18. #18

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Sunday yesterday? when did they nerf monday into oblivion? :P

  19. #19
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    5,274

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Quote Originally Posted by asfrina
    Sunday yesterday? when did they nerf monday into oblivion? :P
    Err, is it not Monday today?

  20. #20

    Re: Priest pvp problems

    Tuesday 30th of december, all day.

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